Bosma Murder Trial 05.18.16 - Day 51

[Typhoo1961]

10+ hours of cross and we still haven't gotten to the actual killing yet, I see...

We likely never will.

 

[JuneBug67]

Now this is interesting. Have you ever wondered if this entire thing was an audition for the mafia? IMO

"Smich mentions "other things" Millard wanted the truck for that he can't get into unless the court allows him."

No. Never.

 

[TOR]

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 3m3 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
Smich says Millard was desperate to get a truck, to race in Mexico #Bosma #HamOnt

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 3m3 minutes ago
"[Millard] was getting desperate because he needed to go for whatever reasons but we'll stick to the one of the Baja race" Smich says #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
Smich says it was Millard who was "desperate" to get the truck. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
"He wanted to go to Mexico," says Smich. Sachak tells Smich to stop playing games about what court will allow him to say...

***I guess NS doesn't like when MS tells more of his "truth" than NS is asking for?

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Sachak stops him and cautions him. Justice Goodman jumps in. "I think that's my job," he says. We're taking the lunch break. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
Lunch break. #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 5m5 minutes ago
"Stop playing this game about if the court will allow you..." Judge steps in... "That's my job Mr. Sachak." #Bosma @CTVNews

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
"Mr. Sachak, I think that's my job," says Justice Goodman....Jury dismissed for lunch. #Bosma

To me MS is limited by what he can answer and how because of the other charges and pending court cases. I could imagine this makes it difficult for MS on the stand - but where's his lawyer in stopping the NS? This is the third time in the past three days he's had to "do the justice's job" so to speak?

As for the amnesia, I have difficulty remembering what I wore yesterday let alone what my coworker who sits next to me wore. If you're on a trial for first degree - you better know the answer and not assume. Assumptions are far more dangerous than "I don't remember" when your life is on the line during tesetimony.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I think we need another pic (sorry)! Perhaps one where you let your neck, shoulders, everything, just go completely limp? If TB was dead, and had no muscle tone, wouldn't his neck have been limp, and not supporting his head? And if no neck muscles, and with the head resting on the front of the dash, wouldn't his head slide down? But then again, with TB being much taller than CJP, his head could have been more supported by the dash... and depending on how far ahead the seat was pulled up to the front (which it likely would NOT have been, to allow room enough for TB's legs, being something like 6'1" tall?)

I don't think that would make a difference really. I made my body somewhat limp with my head weight on the dash. I have a back issues so it's pretty stiff naturally.

I'm not a brain expert so I don't know how a bullet to the brain would affect the body. Does it go limp? Does it go stiff? Don't forget, the brain would affect the CN'S (central nervous system) From what I just briefly read (before replying to your post) it depends were the bullet enters on the affect to the body. Some shot locations can paralyze the spine, which could lead to stiffness. Some people even live through the injury (very small percent) Like I said, I'm no expert maybe someone else could chime in that does know for certain.

 

[lclabtech]

Now this is interesting. Have you ever wondered if this entire thing was an audition for the mafia? IMO

"Smich mentions "other things" Millard wanted the truck for that he can't get into unless the court allows him."

I immediately thought other things had to do with the Babcock case. And if the reason is what I think it is, MS could make a good argument if he were allowed...

 

[canadiangirl]

I have a lot of respect for Judge Goodman. I realize he's doing his job but IMO he's classy and direct.

 

[canadiangirl]

I immediately thought other things had to do with the Babcock case.

Curious how could it be connected to the Babcock case? She was gone in 2012, this is well after in 2013. What are your thoughts on how he could need the truck almost a year in relation to LB?

 

[lclabtech]

Curious how could it be connected to the Babcock case? She was gone in 2012, this is well after in 2013. What are your thoughts on how he could need the truck almost a year in relation to LB?

Maybe he wanted to get rid of a truck used in a previous crime but not appear that he got rid of a truck. And remember, he told people he'd been trying for a year to swap these trucks. Timing kinda fits.

 

[Martha Morris]

BBM Couldn't agree more. We have to be careful that we don't read too much into some people's comments that are focused on one specific part of the trial. I think Sachak is doing a horrible job for his client but nothing that has transpired has made me think for even a second that either of these two guys wasn't fully involved. If it made the difference between 25 year with no chance for parole or a much lessor sentence...I'd probably be up there tap dancing! Doesn't mean the good people the jury wouldn't see through it though. MOO

My perception (rightly or wrongly) has been there is almost cheerleading for MS' snippy responses and a general condemnation of DM's defence team, even though in many respects they have scored a lot of hits in terms of attacking MS' credibility, albeit by a rather tortuous route. The problem they have is that they can't ask anything 'direct' as it immediately incriminates their own client, so they have to come at it via this rather bizarre, tangential route. And to be fair to them, it is working to some extent.

Yesterday for example MS' smart*se responses didn't do him any favours at all in my view. Likewise DM's defence team have highlighted how, when MS can't make his well rehearsed testimony chime with the testimony of others, they then become 'liars' or 'mistaken' - and so far, Christina Noudga, Andrew Michalski, Matt Hagerman, Marlena Meneses, 'Arthur' and even Smich's own mother ... have all fallen into that category. They are wrong, mistaken or lying and MS is the only one telling the truth, according to MS.

I can understand the consensus that Christina Noudga is a 'liar'. In my opinion she is, without question. But I just wonder what on earth she stood to gain by lying about a telephone conversation in which Smich said '***** has gone down'. She even talked about being annoyed and irritated by what he was saying, repeating it over and over, and how pointless the exchange was. If he can forget hours and hours of time - how he disposed of the gun, even the approximate area he disposed of it in, and subsequent bouts of amnesia .... it's perfectly possible he could forget that his girlfriend passed him the phone and he spoke to CN, however briefly. Yet, we are far more willing to believe his version of events than hers?

It just puzzles me, this willingness to believe what he is telling the court, when he is in this up to his neck and then some. And he certainly did more after the fact to eradicate evidence than anyone else. He had the murder weapon in his hand and yet we are supposed to believe he had a complete and total memory black out as to what he did with it, and cannot supply the police with one single clue as to its whereabouts?

MOO of course, and I will shut up now.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

My perception (rightly or wrongly) has been there is almost cheerleading for MS' snippy responses and a general condemnation of DM's defence team, even though in many respects they have scored a lot of hits in terms of attacking MS' credibility, albeit by a rather tortuous route. The problem they have is that they can't ask anything 'direct' as it immediately incriminates their own client, so they have to come at it via this rather bizarre, tangential route. And to be fair to them, it is working to some extent.

Yesterday for example MS' smart*se responses didn't do him any favours at all in my view. Likewise DM's defence team have highlighted how, when MS can't make his well rehearsed testimony chime with the testimony of others, they then become 'liars' or 'mistaken' - and so far, Christina Noudga, Andrew Michalski, Matt Hagerman, Marlena Meneses, 'Arthur' and even Smich's own mother ... have all fallen into that category. They are wrong, mistaken or lying and MS is the only one telling the truth, according to MS.

I can understand the consensus that Christina Noudga is a 'liar'. In my opinion she is, without question. But I just wonder what on earth she stood to gain by lying about a telephone conversation in which Smich said '***** has gone down'. She even talked about being annoyed and irritated by what he was saying, repeating it over and over, and how pointless the exchange was. If he can forget hours and hours of time - how he disposed of the gun, even the approximate area he disposed of it in, and subsequent bouts of amnesia .... it's perfectly possible he could forget that his girlfriend passed him the phone and he spoke to CN, however briefly. Yet, we are far more willing to believe his version of events than hers?

It just puzzles me, this willingness to believe what he is telling the court, when he is in this up to his neck and then some. And he certainly did more after the fact to eradicate evidence than anyone else. He had the murder weapon in his hand and yet we are supposed to believe he had a complete and total memory black out as to what he did with it, and cannot supply the police with one single clue as to it's whereabouts?

MOO of course, and I will shut up now.

BBM No need! That is the whole point of this place!!!

I agree with you 100% on pretty much everything you wrote. For the record, I don't believe anything 90% of the witnesses that are the inner circle have stated. I believe Daly (who I believe was the one that was very emotional) and MM (for the most part) but everyone else....covering their *advertiser censored* the best they can! MOO

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

To me MS is limited by what he can answer and how because of the other charges and pending court cases. I could imagine this makes it difficult for MS on the stand - but where's his lawyer in stopping the NS? This is the third time in the past three days he's had to "do the justice's job" so to speak?

As for the amnesia, I have difficulty remembering what I wore yesterday let alone what my coworker who sits next to me wore. If you're on a trial for first degree - you better know the answer and not assume. Assumptions are far more dangerous than "I don't remember" when your life is on the line during tesetimony.

Ahh...you're missing the first part of NS's strategy....that being to put TD to sleep. Worked like a charm.

 

[Kamille]

BBM In my opinion, a lot of the criticism is driven by the absolutely ridiculous statements he is making such as "did you tape the spade to your forehead?" "Did you wake up at the Bosma's house?" He certainly has a difficult job but his level of professionalism is really what is irking me. MOO

My problem is the continued repetition of the same questions that he knows MS is not going to answer to keep driving home that he is being cagy. We got it. Just a massive waste of court and jurors time to keep going over it time and time again. I think the jurors get it after the first 3 or 4 tries. And almost 3 days spent on MS's character and non sequential events surrounding the murder. They are not on trial for any of the other stuff. We get that this is a supposedly reformed drug and alcohol addict with a criminal record who was on the path to a life of crime to support himself and his habits. We got it on the first day. And we don't care because that does not prove that he either did or did not murder the victim in this case. If there is any indication that he is actually the shooter and they have a believable alternative story of just how that happened I want to hear it. I want them to put their client's version of events out there for scrutiny. I'm very much "over" the magical forest quotes and other nonsense that both NS and MS are hurling at each other. It is not bringing any clarity to this horrible tragedy and is making a mockery of TB's death IMO. If they are not going to address the murder, I think the jury gets the picture about MS's lack of morality and compassion...especially at the time of the murder, both before and after. I think they got it many court hours ago.

Otherwise, I want the Crown up there dismantling the lies, getting to the actual murder and trying to give it some clarity. And then I want them to explain how both of these defendants can legally be convicted of first degree murder regardless of how much "reasonable" doubt jurors may have about one or the other being the actual shooter.

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Ahh...you're missing the first part of NS's strategy....that being to put TD to sleep. Worked like a charm.

I think Dungey is just letting MS talk on his own without a S**T ton of legal arguments and omissions like DM'S team has done. The D team wanted anything and everything omitted when it hurt their case.

 

[billandrew]

I have a lot of respect for Judge Goodman. I realize he's doing his job but IMO he's classy and direct.

If you haven't attended the trial and actually seen him in person then you're missing out. He speaks more often during the voire dire sessions (legal arguments), and it's fascinating to hear him reason through issues and interact with others in the courtroom. He runs a tight ship and is classy and direct just as you stated. I've seen him get strict with Sachak, Dungey, and Leitch at numerous points in this trial, but only when they clearly deserved it. I have limited experience in the legal world but I would guess that Goodman ranks among the best of judges out there.

 

[canadiangirl]

My perception (rightly or wrongly) has been there is almost cheerleading for MS' snippy responses and a general condemnation of DM's defence team, even though in many respects they have scored a lot of hits in terms of attacking MS' credibility, albeit by a rather tortuous route. The problem they have is that they can't ask anything 'direct' as it immediately incriminates their own client, so they have to come at it via this rather bizarre, tangential route. And to be fair to them, it is working to some extent.

Yesterday for example MS' smart*se responses didn't do him any favours at all in my view. Likewise DM's defence team have highlighted how, when MS can't make his well rehearsed testimony chime with the testimony of others, they then become 'liars' or 'mistaken' - and so far, Christina Noudga, Andrew Michalski, Matt Hagerman, Marlena Meneses, 'Arthur' and even Smich's own mother ... have all fallen into that category. They are wrong, mistaken or lying and MS is the only one telling the truth, according to MS.

I can understand the consensus that Christina Noudga is a 'liar'. In my opinion she is, without question. But I just wonder what on earth she stood to gain by lying about a telephone conversation in which Smich said '***** has gone down'. She even talked about being annoyed and irritated by what he was saying, repeating it over and over, and how pointless the exchange was. If he can forget hours and hours of time - how he disposed of the gun, even the approximate area he disposed of it in, and subsequent bouts of amnesia .... it's perfectly possible he could forget that his girlfriend passed him the phone and he spoke to CN, however briefly. Yet, we are far more willing to believe his version of events than hers?

It just puzzles me, this willingness to believe what he is telling the court, when he is in this up to his neck and then some. And he certainly did more after the fact to eradicate evidence than anyone else. He had the murder weapon in his hand and yet we are supposed to believe he had a complete and total memory black out as to what he did with it, and cannot supply the police with one single clue as to its whereabouts?

MOO of course, and I will shut up now.

Yes, no need to shut up, you've made some very valid point and it's your opinion. Some of us "fence-sitters" need to see all sides. And yours is no exception!

Personally, lack of physical evidence is what has me on the fence at this point. (When the crown rips him apart, I may fall off onto the other side as I expect will happen.)
Why is there no DNA of MS where there is of DM and CN? Why no MS fingerprints anywhere?
Why no MS trail from his phone? (yes I realize he could've ditched the phones but they did find a bunch)
Just to point out a few questions I'm struggling with. I don't believe they could've cleaned up only their part but not DM's. MOO

They are highlighting in court how DM had the money, he didn't need to steal. I think we've all said the same thing at one point.
This "rich guy" with all these assets (not talking about debt) - needs to steal a truck????
They are missing key points as to why he planned this for over a year if he had the money.
Why if he was so desperate didn't DM just BUY it?

I think if I ever get the answers to some of these questions, it might be more clear to me. For me, I can see that MS is making this "fit".
I believe he knows what happened to the gun or at least where he initially put it. (not sure he knows where it is now)
I believe he's leaving out details
I believe he's placing blame on others in regard to the gun, the drugs, etc etc

But trying to say if you're into rap, poor, petty criminal, doesn't make you a murderer. Show me the evidence!!!
If DM didn't shoot TB, prove to me MS did.

Or just convict both of first degree and be done with it (said tongue in cheek)

JMO

 

[Inspector_North]

Didn't DM need to steal $100,000.00/month to keep his head above water?

DM is fighting a crafty coyote. Time to call in 007.

MOO

 

[JPC]

I'm thinking the desperate need for an ancient boat of a Cadillac that would basically need an IV of gasoline at all times, to drive to Calgary, is absurd.

Agreed 100%. Not that he cared about the law but that is a long drive in a car without insurance and a driver without a licence. It seems that NS is grasping because he has to be careful not to implicate DM. Perhaps he feels like the longer that this goes on the jury will forget AM and CN and LE specialists testimonies

Also wondering if MS received his shoulder injury in he car rollover where he didn't seek medical attention??

 

[lclabtech]

I believe he started looking for a diesel truck before the previous Baja race in 2012 that he did not attend. LB disappeared in July 2012. So this "theory" doesn't really hold water IMO. If DM was concerned about evidence in the red truck after being questioned by SL, he would have spent the money to replace it then IMO. He spent it on the eliminator. And at the time, WM was still alive and as far as DM knew the finances were fine. If he considered trying to pass off a diesel Ram from a different year as his own to fool homicide detectives, then he is a complete fool...and I don't think he is.

Not to say that LE didn't possibly find LB DNA in the red truck. But I don't think DM would have even considered it at the time he was trying to steal another Ram truck, especially since he started looking months before she disappeared. As far as he was concerned in 2013, that LB disappearance was over IMO. No one was ever going to suspect him.

So if that's what MS would have suggested on the stand, I'd say he's been fed a lot of theories from the internet over the past three years.

MOO

Why the swap then? Steal a diesel truck. Doesn't need to be red, doesn't need the windshield removal, etc. If all he wants is a diesel truck, he made it way more complicated than it had to be. IMO, the swap is important.

Thought about it - I guess to cover up the theft. It's interesting they wanted it to be red from the get go though. Not just after the truck was splashed on the news.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Now this is interesting. Have you ever wondered if this entire thing was an audition for the mafia? IMO

"Smich mentions "other things" Millard wanted the truck for that he can't get into unless the court allows him."

Way, way, way back before even BD testified, I thought there was some seedy underworld element to this. I was convinced there is no other way a rich guy could get caught up in something like this. It maybe even explains the 's coming to get me/don't mess around comments. Maybe there is a mafia or gang connection but we will likely never know. It's clear to me now, these two were knew what they were doing are responsible for their actions.

 

[Kamille]

Why the swap then? Steal a diesel truck. Doesn't need to be red, doesn't need the windshield removal, etc. If all he wants is a diesel truck, he made it way more complicated than it had to be. IMO, the swap is important.

He wanted a diesel truck so he wouldn't spend $11,000 in gas hauling his trailer to Baja. And everyone told him how stupid it was for him to have purchased a gas engine if he was doing this kind of hauling. So if he was trying to be "frugal" on gas, he was also trying to be "frugal" on the five finger discount plan of acquiring the truck. The only people he'd have to fool with the swap were border patrol and the odd patrol officer pulling him over for a driving infraction.

It's not like he was going to be able to restamp the old VIN into the engine to fool homicide detectives.

MOO