Bosma Murder Trial 05.24.16 - Day 54

[andreww]

I am really, really, really glad i'm not on this jury. Like some other posters, I am not sure I am seeing first degree for MS beyond a reasonable doubt. Because as I understand the law (and I welcome corrections here), for MS to be found guilty of 1st degree he had to know about the murder beforehand (not just know the plan to steal the truck)? Or he could be found guilty if he was involved in forcibly confining TB and TB was killed during that forcible confinement? That is my understanding of first degree in this case.

What would he be legally and technically guilty of if he didn't know of the plan to murder TB and wasn't in the truck when TB was shot?

I haven't had the "aha" moment I was hoping for. Leitch is starting to chip away at MS, and IMO was much more effective than NS (I understand NS had limitations because he could implicate his client).

This seems to have become a polarizing discussion. I fully admit I can understand how people are seeing MS as guilty. I welcome the discussion from both sides.....and I hope that before the end of the trial the evidence is so convincing that I am firmly planted on one side of the fence or the other. MOO

Not sure why people can't see though all MS's BS. His story was almost predictable, as he just took the presented evidence and wrote I'm out of the script. And the gun(s)? Smich made an obvious effort to protect and preserve the gun when he wrapped and taped them in a waterproof cacoon. His obvious intention was to retrieve it when needed, meaning he would have hidden it in a place that he could easily find. I have no doubt he could find the right now if needed. If the plan was to come back later and steal the truck, where are the burglary tools like a slim Jim? He had no reasonable explanation for his bbq and sausage texts, and the fact that a grown man was looking forward to real fireworks 3 weeks before Victoria Day is laughable.


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[chaines]

I have mentioned this before, and it seems like a time to bring it back up.

How was this scoping mission to work from beginning to end?

1) They drive to Tim's and park the Yukon in a lane near his place
2) They walk to Tim's and tell him they were dropped off by a friend who went to Timmies.
3) They test drive and look for tracking devices and if the truck is what DM wants.
4) They drive back to Tim's
5) They tell him they will get back to him and walk back to the Yukon???

Pretty sure that would raise flags if his friend was not there to pick them up after the test drive.

MOO

sorry if this has already been addressed as I am catching up.

In order for this plan to be work step 4 likely would have been to tell Mr. Bosma to drop them off at the Tim Hortons where Mr. Bosma thinks their friend has been waiting. However, that still means that DM and MS then have to wait until Mr. Bosma out of view and then walk back to the Yukon but from what I have read, it wasn't that far a walk. But they still risk being spotted by anyone driving by. To anyone with any intelligence, this plan makes no sense. That's why I believe the plan all along was to leave no witness.

 

[puppyraiser]

sorry if this has already been addressed as I am catching up.

In order for this plan to be work step 4 likely would have been to tell Mr. Bosma to drop them off at the Tim Hortons where Mr. Bosma thinks their friend has been waiting. However, that still means that DM and MS then have to wait until Mr. Bosma out of view and then walk back to the Yukon but from what I have read, it wasn't that far a walk. But they still risk being spotted by anyone driving by. To anyone with any intelligence, this plan makes no sense. That's why I believe the plan all along was to leave no witness.

Except that 2 other people saw them the night they test drove Mr Bosma's truck.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Not sure why people can't see though all MS's BS. His story was almost predictable, as he just took the presented evidence and wrote I'm out of the script. And the gun(s)? Smich made an obvious effort to protect and preserve the gun when he wrapped and taped them in a waterproof cacoon. His obvious intention was to retrieve it when needed, meaning he would have hidden it in a place that he could easily find. I have no doubt he could find the right now if needed. If the plan was to come back later and steal the truck, where are the burglary tools like a slim Jim? He had no reasonable explanation for his bbq and sausage texts, and the fact that a grown man was looking forward to real fireworks 3 weeks before Victoria Day is laughable.


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I couldn't resist... Grown man? In size maybe but MS was not mature in any way, living at his mom's house with no real job or ambition. And I'm and so called MS supporter (for lack of a better label). JMO.

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[NoodlesMcgee]

He was immature sure, but even an immature 21 guy isnt going to be giddy about actual fireworks.

 

[Jen Darme]

I do think, as others have mentioned, that Fraser was overreaching at times and that the othering is off-putting and inherently unfair. Unfortunately, appealing to jurors' biases is SOP.

OTOH, MS explained the following as he didn't know, "there were many missions" and "we've done so much together": MS's "It's almost mission time " on April 26 and the next day, his going with DM to "figure out the BBQ situation" (and DM then texting SS about the generator). I am fairly certain MS knew the purpose of the incinerator and that it was at least potentially part of the mission to steal the truck.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Someone mentioned 1 year preparation time wouldn't be imaginable, therefore part of the sms were possibly not related to a truck theft/kidnapping/murder in May 2013.
The jurors don't know but we all here do know: DM/MS were very busy with an alleged murder in July 2012 and afterwards covering their tracks. DM was very busy with an alleged murder in November 2012 and afterwards covering his tracks, shutting down Millardair and regulating his numerous big financial problems. April/May 2013 it seems after an "artistic intermission" time had come to commit the next theft now incl. murder, just in time after a successful all-nighter to let repaint the stolen truck, drive to the next Baja race and covering his tracks whereas MS had to cover his tracks with a move to Calgary to be with his "lonely" sister.
For the accused the 12 months were verrry fast gone, gone - packed with tasks and problem solutions.
Not to mention DM's x ongoing romantic relationships, renovation monitoring at different places and towns, DM's vacation trips and the countless missions he was doing with his best soul mate (MS said there had been so many missions he couldn't tell "exactly" where/on what object). Also not to mention obtaining drugs, doing drugs, drinking, having BBQs and parties, driving around for tagging, selling drugs, googling for all interests: the next victim, a car/truck, guns, ammo, modification of different devices and so on.
I think they had to do a lot of work and above all they had to avoid any mistakes (as per sms mentioned). The 2 accused knew only too well they were biassed. I don't wonder about the sloppiness in performing despite planning for 12 months when I think of their both inner chaos shown in pics of homes and cars. They felt as a great unbeatable team and celebrated for a few minutes with hopping on their car seats (maybe the last car seat hopping in their life) - ...... then there opened up a big surprise in person of SB and the army, IT and AJ. Maybe, SL and his insisting on a search for LB helped indirectly too in the course of investigations. IMO MOO

I'm not sure how to judge and will gladly leave it to the professionals. I'm hoping both DM and MS will get the punishment which they deserve as an evil TEAM which saw Sharlene, a young pretty nice wife and mother of a little girl, from face to face and minutes later took her husband's life - for a simple truck.

 

[andreww]

I'm still on the fence for MS guilty of murder one. The crown has not yet proven to me he knew about the plan to murder. I think he absolutely covered up what happened which includes destroying evidence. At this point though for me, he wasn't that much more knowledgeable then CN was. JMO

I'm hoping the crown can get me off this fence. Like some others I tend to see some weak spots that don't add up to first degree for me yet

I feel that the text conversations prove him guilty not only beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond any doubt.

And as far as Smich's violent rap lyrics, and his defence that Eminim doesn't do the things that he sings about, I guarantee that white boy Eminem wasn't even on Smich's playlist. Consider the following;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deceased_hip_hop_artists

Despite Smich's claims many hard core rap artists actually do partake in the violence they glorify in their songs.

 

[JuneBug67]

Not sure why people can't see though all MS's BS. His story was almost predictable, as he just took the presented evidence and wrote I'm out of the script. And the gun(s)? Smich made an obvious effort to protect and preserve the gun when he wrapped and taped them in a waterproof cacoon. His obvious intention was to retrieve it when needed, meaning he would have hidden it in a place that he could easily find. I have no doubt he could find the right now if needed. If the plan was to come back later and steal the truck, where are the burglary tools like a slim Jim? He had no reasonable explanation for his bbq and sausage texts, and the fact that a grown man was looking forward to real fireworks 3 weeks before Victoria Day is laughable.


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AI couldn't attend as closely as I wanted to yesterday....was he asked about the furniture and sausages texts? I was watching for it but must have missed it if it was asked of him.

 

[andreww]

AI couldn't attend as closely as I wanted to yesterday....was he asked about the furniture and sausages texts? I was watching for it but must have missed it if it was asked of him.

He was, and he claimed he was talking about an actual barbecue.

 

[Inspector_North]

DM was the golden boy that was 4 or more years older than his tribe of minions. His ability to use family wealth to project superiority over them was key to many of them believing he would deliver on promises for their crime involvement and sexual favours.

DM evaluated each one of them to know where the line was. When he texted both SS and MS and told them that the GPS in the Bobcat was to remain their little secret, it was telling of who was willing to move up to bigger missions, even when the outcome was a close call.

DM was even preparing AM to be included with his challenge of $100,000/month mission spree.

Unfortunately for MS, he was a willing partner to the crime sprees as they quickly escalated in scope. He was always the one that accompanied DM on the actual heist when others remained lookouts. They were brothers in this murder, and MS trying to convince otherwise in hindsight is ridiculous.

Like MM said, MS loved DM .......... until May 22, 2013.

With the focus on the two accused, I can't help think about what SS actually knew?

MOO

 

[mimimic]

One thing I try very hard to remember when reading is that we are all someone's child. Brother. Sister. Loved one. Yes, even the accused. And while we all want to see justice, personally I want fair justice.

I'm not looking to convict someone by association. Or because he's into rap, drugs, guns etc. Which seems to be what DM's defense was trying to do.

I would hope if my brother was on the stand, he was treated fairly. We are all here for the victims. While I have no love for MS, in all fairness, if he was your brother and there was any reasonable doubt, I'm sure you'd want the same considerations. MOO

Tomorrow is a new day, and the crown is going to wrap it up. Let's hope it's beyond a reasonable doubt. Because quite honestly if some here have doubts, then some of the jury must be thinking the same

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

Not trying to be a smart *advertiser censored** here, but when people pick one of these two over the other i wonder why. What more is there on DM, other than him driving the truck, to prove anything more than MS? I think the reasonable part has to rely on the plan.

 

[Quaere_veritatem]

There has been lots of discussion on the lack of evidence in the Yukon as proof that MS was not present when TB was shot. If MS was in the Ram when TB was shot he would gunshot residue and blood spatter on him. But both would be on his front and maybe his hands, if he was the shooter. So then when he got in the Yukon to drive it he wouldn't leave any evidence of gsr or blood on the seat because the was none on his backside. He would likely only leave evidence on what he touched, the door handle, steering wheel, gear shift, maybe the mirror. But then DM continued to drive the Yukon for 4 more days before he was arrested and would have touched all the same things as MS would have thereby destroying any evidence left by MS. IMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

So the Crown is expected to wrap up their cross of MS today. If they intend to prove what they say they do, then I hope they've saved the best (damning evidence) for today.

Any ideas/thoughts on whether MS will be the only witness for the defense?

 

[serenitynow123]

Well, IMO Crown Fraser did a brilliant job on cross. He showed through text messages the months of planning that involved the purchase of the gun and incinerator.He got MS to admit that he and DM were successful thieves. Then he pointed out that DM and MS, the smart theives, spent 15 months planning a truck theft and the best plan they had was to show their faces to the owner by going on a test drive! The only way that plan makes sense is if the owner isnt around to give a description of the two shady characters who took his truck for the test drive. Its obvious to me that the planning was for how to get away with murder and that the truck was just a bonus. Very sick. They could have come up with a much better plan to steal a truck from any number of used truck lots in the area. Scope out the car lot for surveillance cameras and obscure or disable them, winch the truck into a trailer and haul it away. That they had to meet the owner in person and drive the truck to learn if it had gps is ridiculous, IMO. A simple phone call from a burner phone would answer that question.

 

[Redwing]

Not trying to be a smart *advertiser censored** here, but when people pick one of these two over the other i wonder why. What more is there on DM, other than him driving the truck, to prove anything more than MS? I think the reasonable part has to rely on the plan.

imo both culpable but I am guessing DM was arrested faster with "more" as he had had the truck at his hanger and was subsequently hiding it at his mommy's house

 

[Jen Darme]

He was, and he claimed he was talking about an actual barbecue.

I somehow missed that too. Do you remember any other words that were used by either Fraser or MS? I've tried searching, including for sausages, frying, and fireside, in this thread and on Twitter. The only results are tweets by reporters on April 19, nothing in either place from yesterday's testimony. According to the reporters' tweets, he sent those photos to DM on May 3 and unless I'm missing it (again), going back over the tweets here in this thread for that date, I don't find mention of the photos. Halp!

 

[Ontario Mom]

Not trying to be a smart *advertiser censored** here, but when people pick one of these two over the other i wonder why. What more is there on DM, other than him driving the truck, to prove anything more than MS? I think the reasonable part has to rely on the plan.

Well for me it breaks down this way:

DM wanted the truck.
DM spent at least a year searching for that specific truck, and enlisted the aid of others to help him search for it.
DM appeared to be the mastermind behind all these "missions" to steal things from people.
DM is the one who purchased a gun.
DM is the one who purchased an incinerator and then lied to various people about what it was for.
DM is the one who phoned the owners of the trucks on kijiji and auto trader to set up the test drives

And although it cannot be considered for this case by the jury, we here can discuss DM's other charges, namely, shooting his own father and LB. Granted, MS is charged in LB's murder as well, but we have no idea what evidence the Crown has in that case. Last we knew, they don't even have LB's remains

So for me, the brunt of the responsibility and motive in this particular crime comes down heavy on DM. MS, by contrast, was seemingly just along for the ride.

 

[Inspector_North]

There has been lots of discussion on the lack of evidence in the Yukon as proof that MS was not present when TB was shot. If MS was in the Ram when TB was shot he would gunshot residue and blood spatter on him. But both would be on his front and maybe his hands, if he was the shooter. So then when he got in the Yukon to drive it he wouldn't leave any evidence of gsr or blood on the seat because the was none on his backside. He would likely only leave evidence on what he touched, the door handle, steering wheel, gear shift, maybe the mirror. But then DM continued to drive the Yukon for 4 more days before he was arrested and would have touched all the same things as MS would have thereby destroying any evidence left by MS. IMO

The search for more evidence that MS could of been the shooter, or even present when the actual murder occurred is no longer a requirement as the crown is showing premeditation evidence that both were involved in planning.

For some time many of us were wondering what element of the first degree murder law the crown would be seeking to prove. After yesterday, it was clear it was the premeditation, and who the actual shooter was is no longer required.

MOO

 

[andreww]

So the Crown is expected to wrap up their cross of MS today. If they intend to prove what they say they do, then I hope they've saved the best (damning evidence) for today.

Any ideas/thoughts on whether MS will be the only witness for the defense?

Not sure, but it would have made sense that Smich would go last so as to incorporate any of his other witness's testimony in to his story.