Bosma Murder Trial 06.2.16 - Day 58 - Closing Arguments Day 3

[canadiangirl]

How much weight do you give these points in the overall picture?


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As people have pointed out, truths vs lies determine someone's credibility. We can't have it both ways.

That's all I was getting at. We don't need to discuss my views. Lol I'm well aware it's not the popular opinion here.

 

[Inspector_North]

No evidence, no crime.

No! There are plenty of crimes committed without evidence to prove them.

No Evidence, no conviction.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

She was in the truck during the conversation with SS to throw him off the scent. She's not stupid. And I don't think her mouth was full at this time either or else DM can have sex, text and drive all at the same time.

Sorry by what the crown said I took it to mean CN knew of the murder plan all along. Not just after the fact.

 

[billandrew]

I agree this is a strong possibility. But what the heck does Ima round the block mean ... Sorry, their lingo confuses me at times.


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Perhaps "Ima round the block" meant he had left Montrose Abbey in case the cops showed up to question him. He ended up at Elizabeth Meneses's apartment on Speers Rd, and that's where Millard came to meet him for those mysterious 50 minutes before Millard's arrest.

 

[Errrr]

I assumed he wanted the red truck back so he could remove the plates. I thought maybe the plates are what he forgot in the white van that he had to go back for.

As we know, he didn't put TB's truck into the trailer until LE was on his tail.

I wish the Crown would monitor WS but maybe it looks bad to do so.

 

[toom]

I agree this is a strong possibility. But what the heck does Ima round the block mean ... Sorry, their lingo confuses me at times.


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I'd take that to mean they have an established meeting place near where Smich was living, but less likely to be under surveillance. Possibly literally "around the block".

 

[Inspector_North]

Was the date of the deer incineration made available?

 

[paris_paris]

Was the date of the deer incineration made available?

No. I expect that will be clarified at the Laura Babcock trial.

 

[pooki]

Point is, there's no evidence he mentioned anything about a murder plan. DM sure did though. JMO

Wouldn't you tell your live in gf if the mission goes as planned you wouldn't be home that night? He didn't have to say anything about murder plans even. She knew they were looking to steal a truck.

Instead he's calling her at 227am.

Seems to indicate to me, it wasn't expected.

I kind of agree tbh. There was a ring of truth to MS's story. Obviously not much of it but bits stick out to me. Many people are asking, well why didn't you run, call the police, etc.

If that version is partially true, MS may have been in the position of ratting out a 'friend' and likely going down with him for murder 1 OR staying quiet, helping clean up, etc. in hopes that they would get away with it. Being a part of that lifestyle was a way of life it seems and I could very easily imagine MS choosing to keep quiet and clean it up, in hopes that they wouldn't be caught at all.

In my eyes, they're guilty as anything but its something that has been bothering me and wanted to get it out!

JMO

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

These are some excellent points being raised about Smich's testimony and how his counsel never asked critical questions of the Crown's witnesses to help support his story. Igor, Schlatman, Meneses, Daly, Noudga, Bullman, etc. These witnesses were not cross-examined against the points Smich would later make on the stand.

• Dungey never put to Igor if they asked about GPS in his truck, yet Smich said they did.
• The officer was never asked about whether Smich told Meneses, upon arrest, to get a lawyer. Officer said Smich yelled to stay quiet.
• Schlatman was never asked about whether he taught them both to steal cars.
• Daly was never asked if Smich and Millard talked right before his arrest. Smich said they did, and Daly was there.
• Bullman was never asked about the vehicles coming out of the field. It went "unchallenged".
• Noudga testified that Smich called her on May 10, and told her some "deep **** went down." Smich's lawyer suggested this never happened.

Yes, this is a very important aspect that Leitch is bringing to the jury's attention.


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[andreww]

Sorry by what the crown said I took it to mean CN knew of the murder plan all along. Not just after the fact.

I believe she did. She never asks questions. Mission Digestion? WTK is that?? She seems to understand that Bosma's truck is being digested and will soon be a better version of Dell's truck. Millard could trust her, we've seen how much. Why wouldn't she know?

 

[Kamille]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 32s33 seconds ago
Jury is back. Crown Tony Leitch continuing closing address to jury in Tim #Bosma murder trial.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 32s33 seconds ago
Court now back in session. Follow along: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-closing-argument-crown-1.3612291 … #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 22s23 seconds ago
Jury is back. Leitch back up. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 8s9 seconds ago
Leitch talks now about what happened at Bobcat of Brantford. According to Smich, he saw Millard wiping the phone. #Bosma

 

[Kamille]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 34s35 seconds ago
Leitch says that's another attempt to fit the case called by the crown. But says it doesn't make sense to wipe with your hands. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 20s21 seconds ago
Leitch back, talking about Bobcat video. Smich says he watched Millard wipe off #TimBosma phone.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 20s21 seconds ago
Smich's story about what happened at Bobcat in Brantford. Said he wiped Bosma phone. Why not wear gloves, cover phone somehow?

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 14s15 seconds ago
Leitch says now he wants to talk about what Smich said happened at Bobcat of Brantford. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 47s47 seconds ago
His story about changing the plates doesn't make any sense either. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 31s32 seconds ago
If police ran the plates it would show up as the red truck, with different features.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 27s28 seconds ago
Also, why put red truck plates on Bosma truck in Brantford? That's a greater risk than leaving Bosma plates in place, says Crown.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 44s45 seconds ago
He says Millard would not have wiped off Bosma's phone there, and this was "manufactured testimony." #TImBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 31s32 seconds ago
He says swapping the plates doesn't make sense wither, because the specifications on the truck wouldn't match if the police ran them. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 46s47 seconds ago
Another detail that makes no sense, Leitch says, is that Smich followed him to the dark, isolated farm--and did not escape. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 29s30 seconds ago
Why would Millard do that? Leitch says. No blood found on phone. Says Smich is making up story to fit evidence

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 40s41 seconds ago
"You don't follow a lunatic with a gun to a dark isolated location where you know he can shoot you too," Leitch says. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s31 seconds ago
"Ludicrous" that Smich followed Millard to dark, remote farm when he's acting like a mad man, says Crown.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 27s28 seconds ago
Leitch says it also doesn't make sense that Smich would follow Millard after the murder. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 20s21 seconds ago
He claimed he'd "never seen Dell act like this before" yet still he follows "lunatic Dell." He could've kept driving. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 42s43 seconds ago
"You don't follow a lunatic with a gun to a dark, isolated location where he can kill you too." #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[XiolaBlueX]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 32s32 seconds ago
Millard to Smich: "Bring change of clothes." Crown says evidence "they were planning the murder that day."

Bringing a change of clothes does beg a few questions, but IMO this in itself is not evidence of meditation of murder.

 

[toom]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 8s9 seconds ago
Leitch talks now about what happened at Bobcat of Brantford. According to Smich, he saw Millard wiping the phone. #Bosma[/COLOR]

That testimony bothered me, because the Bobcat employee testified to having to clean a lot of "bird crap" off the phone. I'd assumed it wasn't actually bird crap.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 39s40 seconds ago
Smich followed Millard even though he had never seen Millard in such a "lunatic" state. Why wouldn't he escape? Leitch asks

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 21s22 seconds ago
Smich claimed he didn't help put #Bosma into the incinerator because of his bad shoulder and because he didn't want to go near it.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 11s12 seconds ago
Smich says he refuses to put Bosma in Eliminator. Millard told him to go to gate instead. So why didn't he escape?

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 18s18 seconds ago
He says instead Millard told him to go to the gate. If Millard was calling the shots, why would he give him the chance to be alone? #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 15s16 seconds ago
If Millard was calling shots & directing Smich, he wouldn't have given him so many chances to escape.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 8s9 seconds ago
Leitch says they were "acting together at all times with the enormous trust they developed over the course of their relationship." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3s4 seconds ago
If Millard really calling all the shots that night with Smich, he would have "kept the gun on him — figuratively at least — at all times."

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC now5 seconds ago
Leitch says what makes sense is both Millard and Smich were working together at all times. #TimBosma #bosma

 

[Errrr]

And yet we have MM texting worried and seemingly genuinely concerned because she hadn't heard from MS. So worried in fact she's texting AM.

I think MS was either hoping or expecting it to be a flop like the last one.

 

[Kamille]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 12s12 seconds ago
Leitch says Smich "falsely suggested" the incinerator horrified him. In that case, Leitch says there's no way he would've followed to hangar

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 8s8 seconds ago
Smich "falsely suggests" Bosma remains "horrified him" yet he followed Millard around all night despite chances to escape.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 18s18 seconds ago
Leitch says Smich said Millard left for half an hour. And he still did not escape or call for help. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 16s16 seconds ago
Smich knew he could be the next body heaved into the Eliminator. Ridiculous, Leitch says. They were working together. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC now7 seconds ago
Smich also could have ran when Millard left the hangar for half an hour, Leitch says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC now
"Do you wait for a madman to come back? ... The answer is no." #TImBosma #Bosma

 

[Kamille]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 28s28 seconds ago
Leitch says he didn't try to escape because he was confused, afraid, in a panic. Leitch suggests those are emotions that would make you flee

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 26s26 seconds ago
Millard goes to get gas for 30 minutes and Smich just stays at hangar waiting. Doesn't run away.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9s9 seconds ago
Smich says he didn't try to escape because he was scared & confused. Those emotions would make you flee, not stay, Leitch says

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 38s38 seconds ago
Smich claimed he was "afraid and confused and in a panic," says Crown. Those are emotions that cause you to run, not stay.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 20s20 seconds ago
Smich has said he didn't try to escape because of panic. "These are all the emotions that would cause you to try to escape. Not stay" #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 11s11 seconds ago
Leitch says everything they did together after the murder was done together. #Bosma

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Perhaps "Ima round the block" meant he had left Montrose Abbey in case the cops showed up to question him. He ended up at Elizabeth Meneses's apartment on Speers Rd, and that's where Millard came to meet him for those mysterious 50 minutes before Millard's arrest.

Thank you!! Seems a most logical explanation to me! billandrew to the rescue again [emoji6]


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