Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[andreww]

I agree with most of the reasoning here, but I still think that even if it was just going to be a carjacking, DM would have done something to conceal his identity at least a little, it is still a crime, and MS seemed to think concealment was necessary.

Have you ever seen a wanted poster regarding a stolen car? Unless the person you stole from runs in to you again, it doesn't matter. I don't think Millard has a criminal record, so I don't think they would have had a mug shot of him to identify him by. MS did, likely why he was more concerned about being seen.

I also think he would not have picked the only test driver so far who had other witnesses present. If it was really about a car jacking, why not wait another day and pick a victim who was alone when he met them?

He couldn't afford to wait. It was a rare truck, he was in a rush to get it, and he'd already exhausted leads in Toronto, Kitchener and Ancaster. We've already heard testimony that Millard was in an extreme hurry to finish the trailer and I'm assuming this truck was meant to pull it.

And really, even if it was a car jacking that was planned, why not warn the employees to stay away ahead of time as a part of the plan? To me there is so much that says this was not a planned event on DM's part.

Not sure what you mean by this. Millard only gave employees the day off because thing went badly. I think stolen vehicles at the hanger were a common occurrence. I think employees just turned a blind eye. A blood spattered truck from a high profile missing person was another story.

 

[andreww]

It will be interesting if SS does in fact testify. Should find out a lot more about the workings in and around the hangar.

If he hasn't been charged, I'm sure he will.

 

[EspressoBean]

I think it’s stretching to say that this was obviously about a truck or that the assumption was that the plan was not murder but a theft gone wrong.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that DM is facing two separate murder charges – his girlfriend and father. Murder is not necessarily something that he sees as a last resort.
This might have been a plan of murder with the extra of being the truck rather than a plan of theft with the extra being the murder happening.
The plan could have been to kill TB. DM made sure people heard about his plan to steal a truck so that it would all point that way. Maybe he had to convince MS that the plan was to steal the truck. All reports of them telling others they plan to steal a truck were after the first call to TB – and maybe I am wrong, but from what I have read, that seems to be the first truck related call (May 4th). Perhaps MS questioned this and wondered why they weren’t looking at other similar trucks? Why not the more valuable truck Igor had listed? DM, to further the ruse, called other listings, went on a test drive. And maybe MS knew all along and these were just rehearsals. Be in the truck, practice how it would play out in their minds and get a sense for the scenario.
I don’t think it is in any way obvious that this was about a truck or that the shooting happened by some theft plan gone wrong.
As for possible motive, I have some ideas but they are still formulating.
What I do think is obvious, is that TB was an innocent victim.

 

[Juballee]

I can't really blame AJ here. Remember, he is standing amongst this crew. You may have had hope, but realistic people like myself and AJ already had a pretty good idea as to TBs fate at that point. AJ has to consider his safety and his SIL's safety. He has to consider that his SIL may be involved in some way and that he may be throwing his grandkids father in jail. He has to consider that if he rats out Millard, both he and his SIL will be out of work tomorrow. No severance either. Get the picture? The decision came with a lot of negative consequences. Its nice to say you would have called immediately, but would you have done it immediately if it meant your daughters family likely wouldn't be able to pay their rent anymore?

I understand this perspective, but I really think that if he actually felt TB was dead, would he want to keep his son working someplace where he thought there was a murderer at large? There's not a lot of job security in that scenario no matter how you stack it.

I think the idea that maybe be was protecting his son in law might be the more likely reason to not come forward. He did say on the stand that he wasn't sure who was involved, but he hoped it wasn't DM getting himself into anything. Which means he also suspected that it could have been people other than DM. It would have been easier to get to the truth if he had come forward when he first saw the truck, in my opinion. He could have excused himself from this 'crew' and made an anonymous call just as easy as taking anonymous photos, (actually easier, since the phone is portable and the truck was stationary).

 

[Ontario Mom]

It will be interesting if SS does in fact testify. Should find out a lot more about the workings in and around the hangar.

I really can't see how he'd NOT be called to testify. He was in the hangar the same time Tim's truck was. He worked for DM. Him and DM were good friends and he'd known him quite a while. He was on the 'no contact" list for DM and yet, nearly a year after Tim was murdered, he was selling off DM's property at the hangar. He probably knows more about all the garbage DM was involved in, than anyone. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rs_snowmobiles_listed_for_sale_on_kijiji.html

By the way - who was it that told SS's father in law that the truck was bought in Kitchener from a dealer? "When he first saw the truck, the seats inside had been stripped, and there were no plates on it. He was told that Millard had bought the truck from a dealer in the Kitchener area, Jennings testified." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620

Who else was there that day in the hangar when AJ first saw the truck?

 

[Juballee]

AJ was in the dark about a lot of things. Likely DM was having a wrecker crush the chassis of his stolen vehicles. The mold thing was BS. Millard likely needed to supply the chassis to the wrecker completely stripped so they could properly recycle the metal.

If if there were so many other stolen vehicles, why hasn't the crown brought it up yet? Are they waiting until later to try to come up with a motive? I would think that if there was any evidence that DM was running a chop shop, that it would have come up in the opening statements, or at least when AJ was discussing what business was going on at the hanger.

I could see AJ not wanting to bring it up if it looked like he knowingly did his co-op at a chop shop, but why wouldn't the crown mention it, unless there was no evidence of it? Even if there was only enough evidence to make a strong suspicion of a criminal enterprise being run from the hanger, I think that the crown would throw in if they had anything to at all to tie it to.

Just my opinion.

 

[canadiangirl]

If AJ had mentioned the truck to crime stoppers when he first saw it on Wednesday, LE could have not only zeroed in on the suspects sooner, but they would have been able to make their arrests before more evidence could be hidden, like the gun MS buried. Then maybe we would have known whose fingerprints were on the gun.

Personally, right up until Tim's ashes were found, I had hopes that he was still alive somewhere, did AJ not have the same hope? I would have hoped that if he did, he would have said something as soon as he suspected it may have been Tim's truck, thinking he might have been able to help him. To me this is similar to the 'Why didn't DM tell LE as soon as he could if he was innocent' argument. As it has been pointed out here, you only have to fear someone while they are free, once they are in jail they are no longer a threat to you, theoretically.

I almost find it suspicious that he knew for days that DM could be a suspect in a major crime, that he took photos of the evidence, verified it anonymously, and then did nothing about until after he was fired and it was too late. Those photos would have been perfect for blackmailing, actually. Not that I'm saying that is what he was planning, just that it is a possibility, logically.

BBM - personally I feel that anyone with a lot of money and connections on the outside would be a threat. The fact that he likely has both would terrify me. The fact my SIL was one of those connections would scare me even more since my daughter was married to him and they have kids together.

 

[canadiangirl]

That may explain 1 of the 3 inconsistencies, but how would a sharpie change the placement and lettering to all caps? I doubt that's the best disguise he can come up with, doodling a box around an existing tattoo. If he was concerned about being identified for his tattoos, which he knows were known to police, he could have just worn a long sleeve shirt or a bandaid.

The placement is the same, and we can't see the word to know if it's caps or not. But there's a tattoo on his wrist in the same place Igor said it was. The box around it baffles me, that's the only thing that rationalizes it in my head lol

 

[EspressoBean]

Regarding the tattoo, I remember when the information was first released, there were posters showing both capital block letters and more cursive non caps of the Ambition tattoo asking that anyone seeing a tattoo like these on the wrist, to call CrimeStoppers. This would make me think that the lettering style on the tattoo were not a detail that the witness could clearly remember, only the box and the actual word. MHO

 

[canadiangirl]

Hope this works, for reference re:tattoo

 

[Juballee]

Have you ever seen a wanted poster regarding a stolen car? Unless the person you stole from runs in to you again, it doesn't matter. I don't think Millard has a criminal record, so I don't think they would have had a mug shot of him to identify him by. MS did, likely why he was more concerned about being seen.

He couldn't afford to wait. It was a rare truck, he was in a rush to get it, and he'd already exhausted leads in Toronto, Kitchener and Ancaster. We've already heard testimony that Millard was in an extreme hurry to finish the trailer and I'm assuming this truck was meant to pull it.

Not sure what you mean by this. Millard only gave employees the day off because thing went badly. I think stolen vehicles at the hanger were a common occurrence. I think employees just turned a blind eye. A blood spattered truck from a high profile missing person was another story.

DM didn't have a criminal record like MS, that is true, but his tattoos were still on file, and anyone he carjacked would have still been able to identify him to the police by those. If he had worn even along sleeved shirt like MS, it might have suggested that this was a crime that was planned.

What's to to say he couldn't afford to wait to hear back from the guy who slept in? Were those the only dodge diesel trucks available for sale in souther Ontario at the time? If he was in such a rush, why was the burner phone 3 months old? lastly, how could he be in a rush to pull a trailer that was not made yet? Surely that alone would have given him an extra day or two.

And again, if the day was only given off because the truck was bloody, would that mean that AJ was knowingly doing his co-op at a chop shop, and wouldn't that invalidate his credit for it? Wouldn't the crown mention the fact that it was being used as a chop shop to bolster their claims and give motive?

If if the seats and bloody flooring were still in it, being removed from it, or being burned there on Tuesday, wouldn't the security team that looks in the window have noticed it? I wonder if they will be called in as witnesses?

 

[Juballee]

Hope this works, for reference re:tattoo

Thanks for the picture, I thought it was described as being on his forearm in something I read this week. Does anyone else find it odd that he noticed the tiny tattoo but not the much larger one on the same arm? Was DM was wearing a tee shirt on that test drive? I can't remember now. If it's on his left arm, he must have noticed it when he was driving and DM was the passenger.

I still want to see Igor's drawing of it made when it was still fresh in his memory.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

IMO....AJ knew more about what was going on at that hangar than he is letting on. You can't work in an environment like that for 4 months and not get the "jist" of what is going on. I am also thinking he wouldn't have even been brought into the mix there if he didn't have some flexibility when it comes to ethics. Translation: I don't think AJ was a hardened criminal but I feel like he was around the block a few times on some things.

So my assessment is that AJ knew about the chop shop activity etc. but he didn't think kidnap or murder would ever come into play. So when it did, he acted. Not as fast as most would have liked but it appears he was possibly balancing the fact that he knew this was serious and he had to report it, with the fact that he knew some form of criminal activity was going on at the hangar and it could affect his family. I am in line with the theory that he was worried that his SIL was involved in the actual kidnapping, hence the great debate in his head on whether to call LE. MOO

 

[matou]

Maybe he drew a box around his tat to emphasize to himself what his "mission" was: get a truck no matter what it takes. It seems he was also working his staff towards a deadline. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

Thanks for the picture, I thought it was described as being on his forearm in something I read this week. Does anyone else find it odd that he noticed the tiny tattoo but not the much larger one on the same arm? Was DM was wearing a tee shirt on that test drive? I can't remember now. If it's on his left arm, he must have noticed it when he was driving and DM was the passenger.

I still want to see Igor's drawing of it made when it was still fresh in his memory.

Thanks for making that bigger, I've never posted a picture before! Igor testified it was "where you'd wear a watch"
And I think it's noticeable because people drive with their hand on the wheel
Igor seemed to be a "take notice" kinda guy

 

[MsSherlock]

DM didn't have a criminal record like MS, that is true, but his tattoos were still on file, and anyone he carjacked would have still been able to identify him to the police by those. If he had worn even along sleeved shirt like MS, it might have suggested that this was a crime that was planned.

What's to to say he couldn't afford to wait to hear back from the guy who slept in? Were those the only dodge diesel trucks available for sale in souther Ontario at the time? If he was in such a rush, why was the burner phone 3 months old? lastly, how could he be in a rush to pull a trailer that was not made yet? Surely that alone would have given him an extra day or two.

And again, if the day was only given off because the truck was bloody, would that mean that AJ was knowingly doing his co-op at a chop shop, and wouldn't that invalidate his credit for it? Wouldn't the crown mention the fact that it was being used as a chop shop to bolster their claims and give motive?

If if the seats and bloody flooring were still in it, being removed from it, or being burned there on Tuesday, wouldn't the security team that looks in the window have noticed it? I wonder if they will be called in as witnesses?

We're only at the end of Day 4 of what could be a 4 month trial and they've certainly been motoring through witnesses with lots more to go. Yesterday, AJ's testimony made SS's name public along with his association with DM. IMO, the friends and associates of DM have all been protected by PB over the past 3 years and now one by one they'll all be cast into the limelight. Their names, pictures and testimony will fill the headlines. SS is probably just starting to feel it and he hasn't even gotten on the stand. There's no place to run to- no PB to hide behind and their identity will not be protected by the Courts. IMHO, the publicity is going to be an incredible shock to DM's friends and family who have been called as witnesses in this case. MOO

 

[matou]

Wondergirl mentioned about there being other stamps like the VIN on a vehicle. I think the other ID stamps on the truck were sanded down and the spray cans were to cover up the areas where the filing/scraping happened. I don't even think cared anymore about the blood inside of the vehicle since the seats and interior were out and he would just say he was modding the truck for an off-roading event like the Baja 500 in Mexico. He left the truck out in view because he already had the story and no one ever was supposed to question a job they were working on. He could say he was putting new seats in for handling hills, jumps, etc. He still had his other red Dodge because it was towed away from the hangar after his arrest so Tim's truck wasn't going to be scrapped. He wanted it prepped and painted even after a guy died in it. JMO

 

[andreww]

DM didn't have a criminal record like MS, that is true, but his tattoos were still on file, and anyone he carjacked would have still been able to identify him to the police by those. If he had worn even along sleeved shirt like MS, it might have suggested that this was a crime that was planned.

What's to to say he couldn't afford to wait to hear back from the guy who slept in? Were those the only dodge diesel trucks available for sale in souther Ontario at the time? If he was in such a rush, why was the burner phone 3 months old? lastly, how could he be in a rush to pull a trailer that was not made yet? Surely that alone would have given him an extra day or two.

And again, if the day was only given off because the truck was bloody, would that mean that AJ was knowingly doing his co-op at a chop shop, and wouldn't that invalidate his credit for it? Wouldn't the crown mention the fact that it was being used as a chop shop to bolster their claims and give motive?

If if the seats and bloody flooring were still in it, being removed from it, or being burned there on Tuesday, wouldn't the security team that looks in the window have noticed it? I wonder if they will be called in as witnesses?

His tattoos were on file? Where exactly? As far as I know Canada does not have a tattoo database.

 

[matou]

Here is the Hamilton Spectator's Scribd link with their files on the case. Photos are there from each day, etc.

https://www.scribd.com/user/47213439/The-Hamilton-Spectator

 

[andreww]

If if there were so many other stolen vehicles, why hasn't the crown brought it up yet? Are they waiting until later to try to come up with a motive? I would think that if there was any evidence that DM was running a chop shop, that it would have come up in the opening statements, or at least when AJ was discussing what business was going on at the hanger.

I could see AJ not wanting to bring it up if it looked like he knowingly did his co-op at a chop shop, but why wouldn't the crown mention it, unless there was no evidence of it? Even if there was only enough evidence to make a strong suspicion of a criminal enterprise being run from the hanger, I think that the crown would throw in if they had anything to at all to tie it to.

Just my opinion.

Its not for AJ to bring up if he had no knowledge of it. As I recall, there were a number of vehicles in that hanger and there was talk of a car theft ring. Usually when there is smoke there is fire, so lets wait and see.

As for AJ, Im not sure what kind of career he was pursuing but it seems evident that Millard was taking advantage of the system to simply get free labour. Seeing as the company was called Millardair, so I'm assuming that he should have been co-oping in an airline related field?