Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

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Random thought: If the police were able to get DM's positioning throughout the night of Tim's disappearance using cell tower pings....I am sure they will have the same information for his movements after that night, including when he was in Kleinburg dropping off the trailer. MOO
 
Snowglobe said:
Here's something I have questioned. DM was driving the truck. It is likely that he took a route familiar to him. The place where TB's phone was found is on the way to DM's property near Cambridge. But is there any other reason TB's phone was found there? Did DM know the placement and range of the company's security cameras because he had been there before, possibly on the company's property during business hours? Was this location chosen in advance, or random?

It could be a place where TB had gotten out of the truck to change seats with the driver, in order to return home. This might be when a carjacker would drive off with the vehicle. The phone could have been dropped by TB, or tossed by TB if he knew he was in trouble and wanted to leave a trail.

Two-on-one odds are better against a man who is smaller.
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Personally I highly doubt DM knew the range of the security camera. We also have no idea who put the phone there. Maybe this is the spot where the other vehicle comes into play. We don't really know who put the phone there IMO. I think it is more likely to have been tossed from the back window than the drivers side, the company property would have been on the passenger side if truck was allegedly travelling north. JMO
 
I must have missed this big detail if so. If anyone can help that would be appreciated :) Also we would need to do the date and time that video was taken, could have been previous to the test drive.

Was also just thinking, there was quite some time between the test drive and the video of the incinerator starting at 1:30am. Maybe they dropped off the truck and Tim at the hangar and went to grab the incinerator in the Yukon? Not sure if the Yukon had a hitch and would be able to do so, just thinking out loud.
 
amis_ said:
I cant find the post right now a bit back, where someone mentioned DM and MS must have went to pick up the incinerator and bring it to the hangar after the test drive. How would they get the incinerator there? Tow it with a dead man in the vehicle and spend a lot more time on the road? I dont think so.... It must have already been there.
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THey've got security footage of them towing the incinerator behind Tim's own truck.. where they picked it up from I don't know.
 
caseyjonesin905 said:
THey've got security footage of them towing the incinerator behind Tim's own truck.. where they picked it up from I don't know.
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Thanks for the confirmation. Of course right after posting that I found it in the Crown's opening remarks. They don't give the detail on where, just that it was on video from a nearby business. I would assume nearby the airport. MOO
 
amis_ said:
I must have missed this big detail if so. If anyone can help that would be appreciated :) Also we would need to do the date and time that video was taken, could have been previous to the test drive.

Was also just thinking, there was quite some time between the test drive and the video of the incinerator starting at 1:30am. Maybe they dropped off the truck and Tim at the hangar and went to grab the incinerator in the Yukon? Not sure if the Yukon had a hitch and would be able to do so, just thinking out loud.
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Where was the Yukon? According to the prosecution so far, they haven't brought the means of arrival at test drive into play. Very strange. But I believe there was another vehicle at some stage(s) of this event.
 
I also recall this.....feel like it was from the hangar security camera.....maybe opening statements from the crown? let me see if i can find it


"Within a few hours of Tim Bosma’s abduction, shortly after midnight on May 7th, images captured by a neighbouring business’s video surveillance system at the Millardair ( the family business Mr. Millard worked in) Hangar at Waterloo Regional Airport shows what the Crown intends to prove was Tim Bosma’s truck towing the Eliminator up to the hangar and parking outside. The truck and Eliminator were followed closely by a vehicle similar to a GMC Yukon, a vehicle the Crown intends to prove was owned by Mr. Millard on the night in question"

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html
 
amis_ said:
Do you have a link to this info please?
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Found this one:
"Fraser told the jury there is also security camera video that shows Bosma's truck towing a large animal incinerator called "The Eliminator" to Millard's airplane hangar. The Crown alleges Bosma's body was burned there in the early-morning hours of May 7."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-court-day1-millard-smich-trial-1.3426062
 
amis_ said:
Do you have a link to this info please?
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It's in the Crown's opening statement. There's a transcription here:

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Within a few hours of Tim Bosma’s abduction, shortly after midnight on May 7th, images captured by a neighbouring business’s video surveillance system at the Millardair ( the family business Mr. Millard worked in) Hangar at Waterloo Regional Airport shows what the Crown intends to prove was Tim Bosma’s truck towing the Eliminator up to the hangar and parking outside. The truck and Eliminator were followed closely by a vehicle similar to a GMC Yukon, a vehicle the Crown intends to prove was owned by Mr. Millard on the night in question.
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Edit: I see five or six of us answered at once. =)
 
etrain said:
i get that. just looking for why there is blood on the undercarriage
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The Crown indicates they intend to prove that Tim was shot in the truck. If he was shot shortly after leaving for the test drive and he was left there until they got to the hangar then that is a long time for someone to bleed. When they opened the door to move him, whether right away or later in the journey, the blood could have dripped down the side of the truck and underneath. MOO
 
RandomName479 said:
I also recall this.....feel like it was from the hangar security camera.....maybe opening statements from the crown? let me see if i can find it


"Within a few hours of Tim Bosma’s abduction, shortly after midnight on May 7th, images captured by a neighbouring business’s video surveillance system at the Millardair ( the family business Mr. Millard worked in) Hangar at Waterloo Regional Airport shows what the Crown intends to prove was Tim Bosma’s truck towing the Eliminator up to the hangar and parking outside. The truck and Eliminator were followed closely by a vehicle similar to a GMC Yukon, a vehicle the Crown intends to prove was owned by Mr. Millard on the night in question"

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html
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Thank you! I missed this.

Wow. They had nerves driving around town with Tim in the truck. This kind of says to me that the burning of Tim( sorry:( ) was not planned. Either not planned to do it at all, or at the hangar.
 
amis_ said:
Thank you! I missed this.

Wow. They had nerves driving around town with Tim in the truck. This kind of says to me that the burning of Tim( sorry:( ) was not planned. Either not planned to do it at all, or at the hangar.
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I am pondering this as well. Was the original plan to use the incinerator at the farm and then they changed their mind for some reason and moved to the hangar? Or was there never the plan to use it. My opinion is, if the working hypothesis is that the incinerator was also used for LB, they at least had it in their heads that they were going to use it in this instance as well. Why not move it ahead of time to the hangar? Who knows?
 
amis_ said:
Thank you! I missed this.

Wow. They had nerves driving around town with Tim in the truck. This kind of says to me that the burning of Tim( sorry:( ) was not planned. Either not planned to do it at all, or at the hangar.
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I've thought a lot about their decision to burn TB at the hangar, especially since I think most of us assumed it was done at the farm, and we never imagined them driving the incinerator all over town. (Not to speak for everyone, of course, but I don't remember anyone speculating anything like that.)

It tells me a couple of things:

--The truck was the priority, specifically breaking down/stripping the truck. They had the tools and the means to do it at the hangar, but not at the farm.

--Dealing with Tim's body was of less importance. Besides, the incinerator was 'mobile' and they obviously had experience hauling things around.

--I believe DM felt more in control of his 'business' at the hangar.

From previous post:

Why not move it ahead of time to the hangar? Who knows?
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This is a very good question. I suppose that either speaks to the level of intent to kill, or simply implies something went wrong with whatever their real plan was.

Maybe they didn't want to move it there during working hours when it would be spotted? Or, someone remind me, DID anyone else witness the Eliminator at the hangar? I'd hoped to be able to work on a time table today, including 'what was where, when', but got too busy.
 
DeepWoodsOff said:
The Crown indicates they intend to prove that Tim was shot in the truck. If he was shot shortly after leaving for the test drive and he was left there until they got to the hangar then that is a long time for someone to bleed. When they opened the door to move him, whether right away or later in the journey, the blood could have dripped down the side of the truck and underneath. MOO
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Looks like lots of activity.. I missed this earlier.. but Tim was all over the truck..
"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder."
Blood inside the rear passenger door, and on the armrest.. sounds like blood may have dripped from a head injury, if he was propped up against the rear window.. point blank to the head, exit wound breaking the front passenger window??
With the high concentration of GSR in the front seat, it sounds like the shot came from the front seat, and then moved to the back seat.. as someone mentioned before who would want to drive with a body in the car next to them.. Smich drove the Yukon, behind the Dodge, went to get the incinerator and then back to the hanger..
 
DeepWoodsOff said:
I am pondering this as well. Was the original plan to use the incinerator at the farm and then they changed their mind for some reason and moved to the hangar? Or was there never the plan to use it. My opinion is, if the working hypothesis is that the incinerator was also used for LB, they at least had it in their heads that they were going to use it in this instance as well. Why not move it ahead of time to the hangar? Who knows?
Click to expand...

I had also thought LB's remains were also found in the incinerator, causing the murder charge against Dellen after the fact. However, the below article confirms she was not found there.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ound-at-dellen-millards-farm/article18476919/

Also, DM and MS were not charged with LB's murder until nearly a year later (looking for link), until after CN was arrested. I believe she gave LE information regarding LB OR they found evidence at her home in the case.

I cant wrap my head around why they would not stay at the farm if they were already there and thought it was necessary to go to the hangar.
 
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