Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #10

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I also think he really wanted the truck, and couldn't come up with the cash. Whereas most people would sell something else to buy it, or postpone the purchase, a pschopathic/
sociopathic person will find 'other methods'. I think the murder and incinerator were part of the plan for how to get away with it, along with using the burner phone and other mundane details. I don't see a lot of excitement in reports of his demeanor, which is why the idea of pure thrill isn't so convincing to me.
 
Billandrew...speaking for myself and I'm sure many others, a BIG thank you for compiling all of the information/facts into this document. It is a great resource and is a quick way for us to look back for information without having to search the threads.
Much appreciation...hope you have a relaxing weekend as I am sure there will be a TON of facts to add next week.
 
Yes, but the prosecution has stated that Millard said he needed to come up with cash. Wasn't that conversation shortly after his dads death? By May, either Millard would have had to steal and sell a lot of stuff, or his need for cash was greatly exaggerated.

He needed cash, but I think Typhoo was pointing out he didn't know first thing of how to do that legitimately. IMO What DM likely didn't factor in is the bank would want to see financial statements of money in and out. I doubt he was bookkeeping any drug or stolen property sales. In the end, he most likely needed an accounting and business course if he had any hope of being legitimate. IMO
 
Off topic......but this article popped up......eerily similar.....and shows how quickly SB and LE got the news out on MSM/social media

This man was last seen April 11 or 12 (the article isn't clear), and it is barely making the news 3 days later.....MOO

https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/...ce=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&dlvrit=2040685

"The case sounds eerily similar to the case of Hamilton man Tim Bosma, who also posted his truck for sale in Kajjii. Bosma, 32, left his Ancaster home on May 6, 2013. "

Wow...just wow. This is a classic example of what DM likely expected LE and public reaction to be when SB called them to say her husband had not returned from a test drive.

Do we have a thread for this one?

MOO
 
My biggest beef with our police is that they simply do not care to investigate theft (unless it's like $1,000,000). If anyone you know has had a car stolen, bicycle, computer, etc., you'll know that the last thing police want to do is "open up a case". They'll do anything to pass you along, frustrate you, have you simply give up and walk way dejected and disillusioned. "It's not a police matter, call your insurance company, blah, blah, blah...."

We had a theft from our business (over $2,000) and when we called the police I was amazed at how little interest they had to come to our place of business to take our report. I literally felt like I was bothering them.

Truth of the matter, however, is that theft is a serious crime. In fact, I personally find thieves to be only one level removed from murderers and other hard criminals. I know most won't agree with me, but this is my personal opinion about thieves.

Thieves are also IMO, a nascent form of sociopath/psycopath. Thieves seem to be completely insensitive to the hardship and financial damage they cause individuals and businesses (which are run by individuals with families, not some anonymous entities!!!) Just like seasoned psycopaths, they have no remorse, no regard for the suffering of others.

Dellon the Felon is a byproduct of a system that seems to turn the other cheek when bobcats and trees go missing, and unfortunately only seems to kick in after the sociopath/psychopath has escalated along from seemingly "minor" thefts and conquests, to sadly and tragically even more serious offences such as abduction and murder of innocent people.

If we want to stop monsters like DM (and his gang of hooligans) from terrorizing normal hard working innocent civilians (and businesses), then we have to change how our police go after crimes of theft. I understand that police cannot investigate every single incidence of properly loss, but I have to disagree that it is not acceptable nor should it be acceptable for police to ignore "less" serious acts of theft. The definition of serious is a matter for discussion. But I strongly believe that lack of deterrence in our current system creates monsters like DM. We need to recognize the evil that lurks in thieves, and it's potential to affect all of society if left unchecked.

I think the reality is there simply aren't enough resources to track down every lowlife that steals a bobcat or a bunch of trees especially in Toronto. You can say they don't try, but you'd be incorrect, other cases just take higher priority because at the end of the day it's just property.

That said, it's unfortunate that someone made you feel that it was an inconvenience to take a report for your theft and I'm sorry to hear that it happened.

Just MOO. I talk to people trying to report thefts daily - it's definitely a police matter no what someone told you, it's just that if you heard the call after yours, you might have a different perspective as to what level of attention it should get.
 
Yes, but the prosecution has stated that Millard said he needed to come up with cash. Wasn't that conversation shortly after his dads death? By May, either Millard would have had to steal and sell a lot of stuff, or his need for cash was greatly exaggerated.

It would be much easier for MS to dump the gun in a dumpster or trash bin somewhere than burying it in the forest.

But if it's buried, he could dig it up later if released, or sell it by sending GPS coordinates from jail.
 
I also think he really wanted the truck, and couldn't come up with the cash. Whereas most people would sell something else to buy it, or postpone the purchase, a pschopathic/
sociopathic person will find 'other methods'. I think the murder and incinerator were part of the plan for how to get away with it, along with using the burner phone and other mundane details. I don't see a lot of excitement in reports of his demeanor, which is why the idea of pure thrill isn't so convincing to me.

The defence suggests he could afford a truck and the prosecution suggests he couldn't. I personally think that if he really wanted to buy that truck, he could have. I think he simply didn't want to buy the truck, it was easier to steal it. So the defence's assertion that Millard wast broke really meant nothing. We've seen him steal other things that he obviously could afford like plants and Bobcats, so why wouldn't he steal a truck.
 
We are all simply responding to the information we get from MSM and the trial tweets and we're merely forming opinions based on what is reportedly known, IMO. If anyone here did have inside information about the crime, IMO, they'd first have to have the sophistication and resources to hack this site and all for what? To hunt down one among the hundreds of people who post here, or all of us, and who, like the vast majority of the general public, are thoroughly and rightfully outraged by this crime? None of the opinions expressed here will have any impact on the outcome of the trial, IMO, and therefore whatever we write poses no threat to anyone involved in the crime or anyone directly associated with the accused, IMO.

.

What about the poster who posts a theory not in the news but from their imagination that is a little too close to the real truth?
 
I think the reality is there simply aren't enough resources to track down every lowlife that steals a bobcat or a bunch of trees especially in Toronto. You can say they don't try, but you'd be incorrect, other cases just take higher priority because at the end of the day it's just property.

That said, it's unfortunate that someone made you feel that it was an inconvenience to take a report for your theft and I'm sorry to hear that it happened.

Just MOO. I talk to people trying to report thefts daily - it's definitely a police matter no what someone told you, it's just that if you heard the call after yours, you might have a different perspective as to what level of attention it should get.

Police will attend your call of a theft, no doubt. They will do absolutely nothing with your report except file it though. I think that Millard is a perfect example of how that lackadaisical attitude empowers someone an even bigger criminal. If any one of those early missions had been seriously investigated by police, this may have been stopped before ehe started.
 
For users of the timeline:

The timeline previously only focused on the period from TB's murder to DM's arrest, but since we now have many tidbits for the period leading up to TB's murder -- and I expect there is more to come -- I felt it would be best to extend the timeline back. Lines like "should I steal the truck from the nice guy or the *******" and "bring a change of clothes", as well as references to the "BBQ" and the generator, are going a long way to proving the premeditation of both a theft and a murder. I suspect that having this information in a chronology will make it even more clear.

Also, the formatting and presentation of the timeline has always been an issue for me (I'm an accountant, not a designer). As the document continues to grow, I decided to revamp it by removing the tabs and consolidating everything on one big page. The intent is to make the information easier to search and navigate, similar to the reporter tweets spreadsheet. I welcome any feedback and suggestions to improve the timeline. Although we are getting to a stage in the trial where the usefulness of this document is declining, I'd like to keep it published as a future reference.

Just pressing the thanks button is not enough. This is a HUGE bonus to us to have you organizing a timeline and other info for this case and so it deserves special recognition. The new format looks great. And trust me, that document is going to be used in years to come, if it's still available, while we're wading through two other cases. I hope you're still available when the next one starts to keep us organized again. ;)

:tyou:
 
Police will attend your call of a theft, no doubt. They will do absolutely nothing with your report except file it though. I think that Millard is a perfect example of how that lackadaisical attitude empowers someone an even bigger criminal. If any one of those early missions had been seriously investigated by police, this may have been stopped before ehe started.

I mean, that's not true at all - not for the theft of something like a Bobcat. But I'm pretty used to people saying stuff like this <modsnip>
 
I wonder how much the red caddy was worth, in case there was any deal that DM was going to offer the red caddy as payment to MS for the mission. Wondering how cheaply MS could be bought. Not convinced that happened, but curious.

Also curious to know when DM said he felt "used" and "taken advantage of"...was that after AM had gone to LE?

I've been thinking about this red caddy thing and I think you might be on to what kind of a defense we're going to hear. MS was doing this "mission" to get the red caddy. DM didn't like the car so he was willing to trade off a sucessful mission to steal a Ram 3500 for the caddy.

So they'll probably say that MS was supposed to be the one who dealt with the owner during the test drive. Intimidating them or getting them to exit the vehicle somehow. He chickened out with IT because of his size and military training. So the next night, MS alone decided to bring the gun to deal with the owner, much to DM's surprise when he just up and shot him of course. And because it was DM's "mission", he felt obligated to help cover up what MS did.

Yep...I can see this being a strategy.

MOO
 
I can't see how AM felt 'protected' by DM. Did he not have a clue when his friend Laura Babcock went missing and then Mr Millard supposedly killed himself? DM had something on him IMO and he did whatever Dellen the Fellon told him to do. I think he was afraid of Smich that night but he was also afraid of his roommate DM.JMO

SEE this is where is don't believe AM. I don't believe he was afraid of MS at all. That he is/was using that as an excuse of why he did not go to the LE. A goat to make himself feel or look better. I think his good Ole buddy DM should have been the one to fear more!

Sorry, I don't kow how to quote posts from the previous thread. In regards to "bullets for protection"
As for MS looking for 9mm rounds on May 18th, I don't believe it was self protection because he was afraid of someone. He expressed his fear to BD before the 18th. I presume he would have saught out ammo well before the 18th, during that initial fear. MOO
 
I've been thinking about this red caddy thing and I think you might be on to what kind of a defense we're going to hear. MS was doing this "mission" to get the red caddy. DM didn't like the car so he was willing to trade off a sucessful mission to steal a Ram 3500 for the caddy.

So they'll probably say that MS was supposed to be the one who dealt with the owner during the test drive. Intimidating them or getting them to exit the vehicle somehow. He chickened out with IT because of his size and military training. So the next night, MS alone decided to bring the gun to deal with the owner, much to DM's surprise when he just up and shot him of course. And because it was DM's "mission", he felt obligated to help cover up what MS did.

Yep...I can see this being a strategy.

MOO

This is the first plausible defense strategy I've head for DM. Because for the life of me I couldn't figure out how they could possibly spin the evidence so far......
 
,!! How much further could he go?
with his mobile incinerator?For the mobsters? who else would be a client?underworld advertising for that? It's good they caught him hopefully early enough that it was only this 3. Would LE know if ...HE WAS the "king fellon" or if he worked under another bigger stupid **^#@!*?
 
For users of the timeline:

The timeline previously only focused on the period from TB's murder to DM's arrest, but since we now have many tidbits for the period leading up to TB's murder -- and I expect there is more to come -- I felt it would be best to extend the timeline back. Lines like "should I steal the truck from the nice guy or the *******" and "bring a change of clothes", as well as references to the "BBQ" and the generator, are going a long way to proving the premeditation of both a theft and a murder. I suspect that having this information in a chronology will make it even more clear.

Also, the formatting and presentation of the timeline has always been an issue for me (I'm an accountant, not a designer). As the document continues to grow, I decided to revamp it by removing the tabs and consolidating everything on one big page. The intent is to make the information easier to search and navigate, similar to the reporter tweets spreadsheet. I welcome any feedback and suggestions to improve the timeline. Although we are getting to a stage in the trial where the usefulness of this document is declining, I'd like to keep it published as a future reference.
I noticed the tabs gone before i went away mid day. i think it is great now! if there is many hours between not sure if it would take up too much space to have them represented somehow or if it would look bad like an excel time sheet ....ah too confusing to explain. or just a no good reason for it - i just think then it could be seen as sleep/non sleep or possible visual on what they could have time for in between???
 
DM, as diabolical as he is, did not operate his crimes in a vacuum, and far from it, IMO. DM had along the way so much positive reinforcement from others in his midst, IMO, if only by their careless silence, which was enough to validate him and spur him on until his crimes progressed to include the ultimate crime of murder, IMO, complete with the chilling conclusion of having incinerated his innocent victim’s body, IMO. DM's devoted criminal menagerie could have at least challenged DM at some point to yank hard on his reins that he had so cunningly attached to them, IMO.

Did the fact that so few if any resisted or rejected DM’s criminal overtures and scandalous schemes communicate the message to DM that he was in fact invincible, just as his companions then thought themselves to be indestructible in his company and by association with him? Did they unwittingly embolden and bolster DM by their endorsement of his villainous impulses and ideas or by their participation until DM was convinced that nothing he proposed, or in fact would do, or ask of them, no matter how risky or shocking, would ever meet with anyone’s genuine disapproval and failure to comply? Did anyone ever refuse to play an extra to DM’s starring role in his immoral game of life and death?

It seems that many people in the shadow of DM’s power only indulged his craving for dire drama and terrible thrills without any thought for the victims of his and their crimes, IMO. Would they have been so blind and oblivious to the dangers involved that they could not see where DM’s twisted mind was leading, and leading them haplessly along with him, until they too became his victims? Did none among them ever consider what the limits of DM’s reign might be, where it would all lead or end? Did they ever entertain or anticipate the possibility that if left unchecked, DM’s criminal tendencies might escalate out of control to the point of no return?

Did no one catch on that perhaps this “millionaire” DM was a fraud and a felon with only his own depraved need for perilous adventure in mind despite the risks to which he was exposed and would expose them to, and despite that they too would have had to become frauds and felons as well to appease him and remain in his good graces? Was their enabling of his fantasies, and their assistance to him in carrying them out, earnest acceptance of DM’s behaviour and theirs?

At the very least, if more among them could have summoned up the courage to confront DM, they could have walked away from him when they were still under their own physical power and able to do so, unlike that of his alleged victims TB, WM and LB, who never, I suspect, had that choice, IMO.

DM was a predator who grew increasingly bold and unbridled until his vile thirst for excitement and power could no longer be contained, IMO. I do wonder if others had not so willingly indulged with DM in his dark fantasies and miscellaneous missions, or had at least tried to suggest or impose some limits, if DM would have been able to escalate to murder on his own, IMO.

Even after LB was murdered, and then when DM’s dad committed suicide, and later when DM was charged with his murder, the loyalty to DM and his pack’s mentality continued unchallenged until their appearances in court, and even then, I could detect some remnants of loyalty toward DM, IMO. And now after getting a glimpse of the conversations that were taking place around or after these tragic events, DM did not seem to suffer from the rejection of his inner circle, his chosen few, IMO, and that is most unfortunate for everyone involved, IMO. Who knows if just one among them had the courage to shine a light of suspicion upon DM, if things today might have been different? As I have said all along, DM never acted alone, IMO, and he had plenty of time tested and “trustworthy” friends and acquaintances in his midst who seemed to have come under some kind of spell, but there was nothing magical about it, IMO. It truly does take a village, IMO.

I can only conclude that DM’s missionaries lost any and all common sense, and with it their sense of direction, and therefore by following DM, they too lost their way, IMO. I hope that those who survived DM’s influence will discover a new and brighter path to follow in future, and I hope that they will never again be so enthralled by the lure of crime and corrupt criminals for a promise of meaningless excitement, quick cash, or street status. DM was not heaven sent and I hope no one ever dares to forget it.

All MOO.
 
I've been thinking about this red caddy thing and I think you might be on to what kind of a defense we're going to hear. MS was doing this "mission" to get the red caddy. DM didn't like the car so he was willing to trade off a sucessful mission to steal a Ram 3500 for the caddy.

So they'll probably say that MS was supposed to be the one who dealt with the owner during the test drive. Intimidating them or getting them to exit the vehicle somehow. He chickened out with IT because of his size and military training. So the next night, MS alone decided to bring the gun to deal with the owner, much to DM's surprise when he just up and shot him of course. And because it was DM's "mission", he felt obligated to help cover up what MS did.

Yep...I can see this being a strategy.
MOO
I agree with all of this but feel the names are interchangeable still. deal or thrill. moo P.S. Kamille most often when i read your posts i look up at your name and say "yes Kamille You do shine bright . :)
 
I agree with all of this but feel the names are interchangeable still. deal or thrill. moo P.S. Kamille most often when i read your posts i look up at your name and say "yes Kamille You do shine bright . :)

bbm

Me too! :)

All MOO.
 
Off topic......but this article popped up......eerily similar.....and shows how quickly SB and LE got the news out on MSM/social media

This man was last seen April 11 or 12 (the article isn't clear), and it is barely making the news 3 days later.....MOO

https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/...ce=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&dlvrit=2040685

"The case sounds eerily similar to the case of Hamilton man Tim Bosma, who also posted his truck for sale in Kajjii. Bosma, 32, left his Ancaster home on May 6, 2013. "

Huh. Shows me how much habits and patterns impact knowledge in these cases. I consume reams of news and information on a daily basis, but rarely seek out local news. This would be local to me - and I'm hearing about it on Websleuths. Horrible to imagine that copycat crimes might be another legacy of this nightmare for the Bosmas. I'm going to keep an eye on this story going forward with great hope for a better outcome. :(
 
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