Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #10

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Wow...just wow. This is a classic example of what DM likely expected LE and public reaction to be when SB called them to say her husband had not returned from a test drive.

Do we have a thread for this one?

MOO

Just when I think I've just about heard it all, and now this! How disturbing and frightening for the poor man and his wife! I hope he will soon be found alive!

And let's hope neither defense exploits this case to suggest that TB's abductor(s) and killer(s) are still on the loose! I wouldn't put it past them, IMO.

All MOO.
 
When did DM get the LB burner phone? I can't remember the date but I wonder if it was around when he started talking about more "missions" with AM in Nov 2012.
 
And my immediate thought then is........what are the chances that there are more charges coming for the thieving antics the posse was up to.....and zombie hoard who lied through their teeth to protect him. I would love to see the list of major crimes and misdemeanours that may be forthcoming.....anything and everything from parking tickets to perjury.....tax evasion, failure to yield....and imitation of a 'civilized human being'.....fine them for their dirty thoughts!!
Towanda..... :viking:What is needed here is a thorough clean up from top to bottom......

I would think that if any more charges were coming they would have been made already.
 
As far as I am concerned DM wasn't running a business at all. He was simply a hoarder as well as a thief with big time aspirations.

In many of these types of cases, psychopathy becomes a topic of discussion. Obviously we don't have any professional evaluation of DM. The following is anecdotal, but I can't help but think of this in relation to what we know. Caveat: Take this with a grain of salt, for what it's worth:

Years ago I had occasion to speak with a qualified psychiatrist about psychopathy. Part of the conversation revolved around psychopaths as collectors, the collection of material possessions. Example question was:

1) does the person like fishing
2) what do they like the most about fishing ... the actual fishing itself or the acquisition of the material things associated with the activity

Our conversation was in relation to a person who stole from their employment. They would have 2 and 3 televisions in the basement, at times taking one back and replacing it with another. Chainsaws being collected when they lived in the city and had no use for them ... etc.

His explanation was to the effect that psychopaths can be materialistic, 'things' being/replacing 'friends', choosing to collect material possessions which they can control, organize, eliminate, add to, etc.
 
I would think that if any more charges were coming they would have been made already.

I'd agree because of the time that has passed, but when SS testified, IIRC, it was said that the investigation into thefts was ongoing, IMO.

All MOO.
 
I guess I've got some questions to answer if anyone has a in my shoe closet.... :facepalm:
 
Huh. Shows me how much habits and patterns impact knowledge in these cases. I consume reams of news and information on a daily basis, but rarely seek out local news. This would be local to me - and I'm hearing about it on Websleuths. Horrible to imagine that copycat crimes might be another legacy of this nightmare for the Bosmas. I'm going to keep an eye on this story going forward with great hope for a better outcome. :(

I will be watching this too. Would hate to think it is a copycat crime.
 
I'd agree because of the time that has passed, but when SS testified, IIRC, it was said that the investigation into thefts was ongoing, IMO.

All MOO.

I may have missed that. If I did then apologies to all.
 
When did DM get the LB burner phone? I can't remember the date but I wonder if it was around when he started talking about more "missions" with AM in Nov 2012.

From Susan Clairmont tweets (Feb 2, 2016):

  • Now @HamiltonPolice officer Steve Lassalin who was in detective branch on night Tim disappeared.
  • He went to a cell phone store in Etobicoke to seize bill of sale from March 11, 2013 to Lucas Bate.
 
Thanks. This reminds me of a similar article I read recently, can't remember if I posted it here. These definitions are always evolving, but this particular article I'm thinking of attempted to make some distinctions between psychopath and sociopath. It left me with the impression of DM as a sociopath but not a rage-killing psychopath.

(Before anyone takes issue with these terms, be sure to google. As I said, the definitions and diagnostic criteria change over time.)

I'll try to find it when I'm back at a real computer.

Yes, there ae diagnostic differences between psychopaths and sociopaths. In fact, although the popular concept of a psychopath is of someone violent and criminal, this is not often the case. Most psychopaths stay out of trouble with the law (my source for this is Dr. Robert Hare, the leading authority on psychopathy, who is from B.C. and who developed the diagnostic protocols for identifying psychopaths). The reason most aren't violent offenders is simply they are first and foremost out for Number One, and being incarcerated isn't what they have in mind for themselves. They tend to be callous, narcissistic, exploitative of others, manipulative, parasitic ...and so on.

Psychopaths are identified, clinically, through the use of the PCL-R, the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, which includes those characteristics listed in the article cited, but how the test is structured and scored is proprietary. It is rather like widely used IQ tests such as the Weschler in that it has a large empirical database from controlled research, requires significant training by professionals licensed to use it, and has high inter-rater reliability (that is, two different test administrations will yield statistically similar scores; this is true of adult IQ tests as well). Besides the characteristics in the list, other items in the subject's background and history are assessed and assigned numerical values. Most people score 5 or lower on the PCL-R; Paul Bernardo scored a 35 - the maximum is 40. To meet criteria for a diagnosis of psychopathy, a person needs a score of 30 or higher.

I'm predicting DM will meet criteria, but if he falls short, I predict it won't be by much. However I'm aware this is armchair speculation. We may never learn what his score is, but it's a virtual certainty he will be assessed after the trial is over, as the results of a psychiatric/psychological evaluation will go into determining his sentencing conditions (not term of sentence).

I may have mentioned it before, but a really good book to read if you're interested in the topic is Dr. Hare's own Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, which is probably the definitive book for the general reader on the topic. HPL and TPL have it, but you can pick it up easily on Amazon as well. You are almost certain to recognize people you know, as the rate of psychopathy in the general population is up to 5%, meaning most of us have worked with (or for) one, married one, are related to one, or a neighbour to one. IIRC he also provides insightful opinions on how to deal with such people when you meet them.

Here's the Amazon link (reviews etc. are pretty positive)
https://www.amazon.ca/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-World-Psychopaths/dp/1572304510
 
Would it be a given that MS would know this information?
I highly doubt he would know the difference.
The shell found in TB truck was a .380, and there are hints of 2 guns via testimony. Based on the evidence of MS device searching for 9mm ammo, I believe it to be possible that DM possessed (Possessed, not owned) the Walther data stamped dual caliber, while MS possessed a handgun only data stamped 9mm. (eg the 9mm Glock does not have .380 stamped on the side).

my opinion only
 
Getting back to DM and his "business" plans, does anyone share my bafflement at his behaviour in this regard? OK, so the hangar was not going to make money right away, but it appeared from the information I read about WM's long-term projections and the fact that the man who met with DM shortly after WM's death said the prospects for signing clients were very good, and the future was bright, why would DM shut it down immediately with no prospect of making big bucks some other way? Had he gone with the hangar business, sure it would not have yielded him 100 grand/month in pocket money, but it might have covered his basics and provided write-offs for his vehicles etc. and even made a profit that would pay him some salary in the near term.

I fail to see how Bobcat heists would net that kind of money on a regular basis (I don't know much about Bobcats, obviously they are a valuable commodity as two dealers are right around the corner). The suggestion that he might have more sinister business models in mind for the "BBQ" doesn't sound like a high-cash-flow deal either. Someone I was talking to through work was in touch with a contract "hit" man he knew and shared the surprising information that the charge was relatively low unless the "target" was a high-profile person. Someone in that line of work would need many hits per month to come close to the desired amount.

Somehow, none of this adds up to a likely revenue stream. Of course, another (obvious) option is that DM is either delusional, severely lacking in financial acumen, not the brightest bunny in the woods, or all three. What do others think?
 
Getting back to DM and his "business" plans, does anyone share my bafflement at his behaviour in this regard? OK, so the hangar was not going to make money right away, but it appeared from the information I read about WM's long-term projections and the fact that the man who met with DM shortly after WM's death said the prospects for signing clients were very good, and the future was bright, why would DM shut it down immediately with no prospect of making big bucks some other way? Had he gone with the hangar business, sure it would not have yielded him 100 grand/month in pocket money, but it might have covered his basics and provided write-offs for his vehicles etc. and even made a profit that would pay him some salary in the near term.

I fail to see how Bobcat heists would net that kind of money on a regular basis (I don't know much about Bobcats, obviously they are a valuable commodity as two dealers are right around the corner). The suggestion that he might have more sinister business models in mind for the "BBQ" doesn't sound like a high-cash-flow deal either. Someone I was talking to through work was in touch with a contract "hit" man he knew and shared the surprising information that the charge was relatively low unless the "target" was a high-profile person. Someone in that line of work would need many hits per month to come close to the desired amount.

Somehow, none of this adds up to a likely revenue stream. Of course, another (obvious) option is that DM is either delusional, severely lacking in financial acumen, not the brightest bunny in the woods, or all three. What do others think?

Linking this back to psychopathy once again, a lack of any realistic long term plans and goals is a actual diagnostic criteria. A few months ago I compared DM's squandering of his opportunities to Paul Bernardo smuggling cigarettes for a living with his U of T accounting degree. Often this personality type is too impulsive, entitled and prone to boredom in the absence of significant stimulation for normal aspirations.
 
Somehow, none of this adds up to a likely revenue stream. Of course, another (obvious) option is that DM is either delusional, severely lacking in financial acumen, not the brightest bunny in the woods, or all three. What do others think?

Agree on this, except, I don't believe that the 100k per month DM mentioned was anything more than another of DM's half baked fantasy inventions. I don't think DM had a freakin clue about either business or organized crime. (fine line there haha)
I base this on the "2013 will be all business" and in the meantime, he goes out and steals a truck to allow him to pull the trailer to the next Baja race (2014??). Not part of any business plan, like the rest of the spoiled brat's life, everything was about him and his sick sense of enjoyment.

my opinion only
 
There were a couple of men from Louisiana whose bright business idea was to travel to Dallas, kill a pimp and take over his prostitution ring. But first they had to prove to themselves that they could actually kill a man. So they had one of their girlfriends go a local bar and lure a young man back to their apartment where they shot him. Of course they were apprehended long before they ever got to Dallas, but anyone with half a brain could predict how sideways their sorry *advertiser censored* plan would go if they did try and implement it.
We will probably never know what DM and MS underlying motivation was, or where they thought the cold blooded murder of TB would ultimately take them....
 
Getting back to DM and his "business" plans, does anyone share my bafflement at his behaviour in this regard? OK, so the hangar was not going to make money right away, but it appeared from the information I read about WM's long-term projections and the fact that the man who met with DM shortly after WM's death said the prospects for signing clients were very good, and the future was bright, why would DM shut it down immediately with no prospect of making big bucks some other way? Had he gone with the hangar business, sure it would not have yielded him 100 grand/month in pocket money, but it might have covered his basics and provided write-offs for his vehicles etc. and even made a profit that would pay him some salary in the near term.

I fail to see how Bobcat heists would net that kind of money on a regular basis (I don't know much about Bobcats, obviously they are a valuable commodity as two dealers are right around the corner). The suggestion that he might have more sinister business models in mind for the "BBQ" doesn't sound like a high-cash-flow deal either. Someone I was talking to through work was in touch with a contract "hit" man he knew and shared the surprising information that the charge was relatively low unless the "target" was a high-profile person. Someone in that line of work would need many hits per month to come close to the desired amount.

Somehow, none of this adds up to a likely revenue stream. Of course, another (obvious) option is that DM is either delusional, severely lacking in financial acumen, not the brightest bunny in the woods, or all three. What do others think?

How was DM going to launder the proceeds of his crimes? He had no active business, and it wasn't a cash business like a bar anyway.

I don't think the guy had a sniff. He wasn't prepared to play by any rule at all, IMO.
 
How was DM going to launder the proceeds of his crimes? He had no active business, and it wasn't a cash business like a bar anyway.

I don't think the guy had a sniff. He wasn't prepared to play by any rule at all, IMO.

I don't think there really was a plan. We know that it was likely that a building was going to be built at the farm, so there really would be no need to launder money. He'd steal and sell, live off his inheritance.
 
I strongly feel that no one should be referred to as "just" a rapist in any context, even in comparison to murder. I know that murder completely takes a life, but rape is also a vicious crime of power and dominance, in my humble opinion, and while it does not snuff out one's life entirely, it can completely change one's spirit and sense of self forever. Both rape and murder IMO are reprehensible. Those who commit rape should never have their vile act somehow minimized with a qualifier of the word "just".

All MOO.
 
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