Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #11

[deugirtni]

If even ONE media outlet got wind of DM's arrest on the evening of Friday, May 10th, it would have been caught by ALL of the media, who would have then pursued it vigorously to get their own stories. The absence of anything on the net, and anything on WS until the 11th suggests that these people who say they saw it on the news on the 10th are just simply mistaken, doesn't it?

 

[deugirtni]

. Sounds like a lot of errors in memory, from a lot of friends of DM. Why would they all lie the same? Saying they saw arrest on Friday night news. What is to gain by saying that?

I'm not really suggesting 'lies', as opposed to just simply mistaken in their days? He was arrested on Friday dinnertime.. ish.. and I believe it first came on the news around noon-ish on the Saturday.. could these people have started all of their phonecalls and communications on the Saturday evening, as opposed to the Friday? It is just something I'm wondering about.. not saying it's the way it is.. but worth looking at perhaps?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm not really suggesting 'lies', as opposed to just simply mistaken in their days? He was arrested on Friday dinnertime.. ish.. and I believe it first came on the news around noon-ish on the Saturday.. could these people have started all of their phonecalls and communications on the Saturday evening, as opposed to the Friday? It is just something I'm wondering about.. not saying it's the way it is.. but worth looking at perhaps?

It seems like it's either misremembering, or everyone including JV wants to obscure the manner in which they found out about DM's arrest, and "saw it on TV" seemed convenient and plausible for a couple of them.

Guess we'll find out next week if the lawyers think it's important.

 

[Inspector_North]

I'm not really suggesting 'lies', as opposed to just simply mistaken in their days? He was arrested on Friday dinnertime.. ish.. and I believe it first came on the news around noon-ish on the Saturday.. could these people have started all of their phonecalls and communications on the Saturday evening, as opposed to the Friday? It is just something I'm wondering about.. not saying it's the way it is.. but worth looking at perhaps?

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 45s45 seconds ago
It wasn't until May 10 that he got a call from Mark Smich saying Dellen Millard had been arrested. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"They got Dell. And I should get all the drugs out of the house."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?304842-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-12-16-Day-33/page12

 

[deugirtni]

It seems like it's either misremembering, or everyone including JV wants to obscure the manner in which they found out about DM's arrest, and "saw it on TV" seemed convenient and plausible for a couple of them.

Guess we'll find out next week if the lawyers think it's important.

We know that CN was texting DM in the evening of May 10th... waiting for a reply.. from memory, I believe that was 9pm or later.. so what time would it have *been* that MM and Mr. V would have been seeing these news reports? 11pm news? And from there, all of the calling starts? Is there evidence of the calling to communicate this to everyone late on the 10th?

 

[deugirtni]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 45s45 seconds ago
It wasn't until May 10 that he got a call from Mark Smich saying Dellen Millard had been arrested. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
"They got Dell. And I should get all the drugs out of the house."




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?304842-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-12-16-Day-33/page12

Even saying 'it *wasn't until* May 10th that he got a call... sounds weird, considering that DM had not been arrested until dinnertime ON the 10th. It would make more sense to say, 'it *wasn't until* May 11th. Otherwise, it would read (or should read) more like.. 'He found out right away by getting a call from MS saying DM had been arrested', imho.

 

[Inspector_North]

We know that CN was texting DM in the evening of May 10th... waiting for a reply.. from memory, I believe that was 9pm or later.. so what time would it have *been* that MM and Mr. V would have been seeing these news reports? 11pm news? And from there, all of the calling starts? Is there evidence of the calling to communicate this to everyone late on the 10th?

I think you are onto something. I don't believe we have seen call history or texts outside the direct circle of interest. That being mainly to/from MS or DM. We have seen some peripheral history of communication from CN to MH and few others, but I don't recall anything from CN to/from MM or MB.

Very possible, but understanding the chain of events that should be verifiable would be useful in proving MM's credibility about very important statements, like they were in a celebration mood when they picked her up.

Hoping the crown has something to wrap up two first degrees, but I don't see it at this moment. Still lots of evidence to present.

These last few weeks have been very difficult for the Bosma family from reports coming out of the court house. I hope they know DM will not be walking for at least 25, and MS is close.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm not really suggesting 'lies', as opposed to just simply mistaken in their days? He was arrested on Friday dinnertime.. ish.. and I believe it first came on the news around noon-ish on the Saturday.. could these people have started all of their phonecalls and communications on the Saturday evening, as opposed to the Friday? It is just something I'm wondering about.. not saying it's the way it is.. but worth looking at perhaps?

I'm pretty sure all of these phone records and text messages were entered as evidence. From billandrew's timeline:

May 10 9:20 pm Smich (Meneses phone) calls Michalski. Day 33: Michalski testimony
May 10 9:20 to 10:50 pm Voice calls b/w Smich and Michalski about Millard's arrest, Smich tells Michalski to get drugs out of Maple Gate. Day 33: Michalski testimony
May 10 10:53 pm Michalski texts Hagerman: "Call me ASAP." Day 33: Michalski testimony
May 10 11:00 pm After calls with Smich, Michalski puts drugs in backpack, puts backpack in trunk of car, parks car across street. Day 33: Michalski testimony
May 11 12:29 am Michalski texts Smich (Meneses phone): "I got it." Referring to packing up drugs at Maple Gate. Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 11:12 am Michalski calls Smich (Meneses phone) about dropping off drugs. Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 1:54 pm Michalski calls Smich (Meneses phone) about dropping off drugs. Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 2:22 pm Smich (Meneses phone) texts Michalski: "Tell him were [sic] its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing." Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 3:42 pm Final voice call between Michalski and Smich (Meneses phone). Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 4:05 pm Smich texts Michalski: "was there a truck back there?" Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 4:05 pm Smich texts Michalski: "how far away is it". Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 4:05 pm Smich texts Michalski: "he didn't find it and there is a truck in the back now." Day 34: Michalski testimony
May 11 5:32 pm Smich and Michalski have two back-to-back phone calls.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml#

 

[hopingforjustice]

Seems that way, but until there is proof either way, MM's testimony is questionable IMO. I know Abro mentioned that it most likely will be addressed if this is important. However, I am putting my juror hat on and believe it is. Folks like Abro are very knowledgeable of trials, and most likely has some additional clues by attending in person, or sitting through three days of CN's bail hearing. Even the jurors have an advantage of court room chemistry and tone of testimony, and they should. Something that may be putting me at a disadvantage in determining importance. MOO

Just thinking here. We have all gone back and forth over the weekend about this. Has it actually been brought up yet when DM's arrest was announced in court? I can't recall if it has. If that is the case the jury has not been pondering anything like we all have. They know when he was arrested but If they don't know the details of the announcement then MM's testimony would not raise any red flags. If the D does bring it up tomorrow, it perhaps will be the first time they have heard of this contradiction. JMO

 

[leafs_fan93]

I'm pretty sure all of these phone records and text messages were entered as evidence. From billandrew's timeline:


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml#

To me this says it's pretty clear that MS/AM/MM knew about DMs arrest on the evening of the 10th. What's not clear is how they found out about it. It was not on any MSM outlet until late into the morning on the 11th. Did someone else contact them to let them know? When DM was there about an hour before being arrested did he tell MS he thought his arrest was imminent, and give him instructions on what to do should it happen? ie. "Im going straight home, if you don't hear from me by 9pm I've been arrested." All speculation on my part here.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

For all we know, the 50 minute visit by DM to MS involved a conversation along the lines of: 'I think I am being followed, LE showed up at the hanger, they are on to me. I will text you when I get home, if you don't get the text by say 9pm, I have been arrested etc etc...Then on the 9pm news they see the ambition tattoo and MS freaks out since he did not get the text. ALL MOO

I am just saying MM's recollection may not be exact and as far as I am concerned doesn't really matter. The Friday May 10, timeframe on WS there was all sorts of things redacted around that time so who knows, sadly that stinks about the internet that it is a moving set of data. I was hoping someone else would recall the 'blackout' that seemed to be imposed around that time as people were sleuthing people not yet named by MSM. I wish I had have taken screen shots as many things appeared and disappeared as well as any discussion about it. Now here we are a couple years later, saying it never happened since we can't find the evidence....well I think the discussion evidence was erased. I was hoping we could hear about a publication ban placed on MSM until the official presser. No one wants to be seen as breaking the publication ban that may have been placed so they make it all disappear. SHHHHH Dont talk about it make it all go away.....Now we need that info and can no longer find it. Sorry but I recall lots of info coming out on social media earlier than MSM. Twitter, FB and WS were swamped with a torrent of info around that weekend. I guess I need to simply forget about it as well like everyone else. JMO

Would the crown have access to any LE suppression of news around this time to negate a savage cross on this subject?

 

[leafs_fan93]

For all we know, the 50 minute visit by DM to MS involved a conversation along the lines of: 'I think I am being followed, LE showed up at the hanger, they are on to me. I will text you when I get home, if you don't get the text by say 9pm, I have been arrested etc etc...Then on the 9pm news they see the ambition tattoo and MS freaks out since he did not get the text. ALL MOO

I am just saying MM's recollection may not be exact and as far as I am concerned doesn't really matter. The Friday May 10, timeframe on WS there was all sorts of things redacted around that time so who knows, sadly that stinks about the internet that it is a moving set of data. I was hoping someone else would recall the 'blackout' that seemed to be imposed around that time as people were sleuthing people not yet named by MSM. I wish I had have taken screen shots as many things appeared and disappeared as well as any discussion about it. Now here we are a couple years later, saying it never happened since we can't find the evidence....well I think the discussion evidence was erased. I was hoping we could hear about a publication ban placed on MSM until the official presser. No one wants to be seen as breaking the publication ban that may have been placed so they make it all disappear. SHHHHH Dont talk about it make it all go away.....Now we need that info and can no longer find it. Sorry but I recall lots of info coming out on social media earlier than MSM. Twitter, FB and WS were swamped with a torrent of info around that weekend. I guess I need to simply forget about it as well like everyone else. JMO

Would the crown have access to any LE suppression of news around this time to negate a savage cross on this subject?

Identical thoughts seconds apart haha

I too wish I could remember back to when the information was first coming out, what was pulled back etc. I've gotta think that even if any MSM jumps the gun on releasing Millards name on the 10th when they weren't supposed to there would be some trace of it somewhere be it old news articles, discussions boards, Twitter etc

 

[hopingforjustice]

Just wondering..........................

Is it possible that (virtually) everyone is getting mixed up on their days?

Friday, May 10, 2013 - early hours - CN and DM are busy hiding: trailer with TB's truck inside, moving incinerator to the trees, he's giving her the DVR for safekeeping, they're delivering a locked toolbox to MH's house...

Friday, May 10 - cops show up at the hangar; there is a meeting at the hangar; AJ gets fired; SS take DM and his red truck to his friend's house to hide it;

Friday, May 10 - DM is arrested around dinnertime while in transit; apparently he is interrogated for... I forget how many hours? 24 hours?

Saturday, May 11 - AM works along with RB at Campbell's; he sees the TV in the lunchroom that DM has been arrested for forcible confinement and theft of TB's truck, he shares the info with RB.

-discrepancies:

-MM says she saw it on TV on Friday evening that DM had been arrested; apparently Mr. V also saw it on TV... yet.. no news reports can be found at ALL any earlier than May 11th; some news reports still report the arrest as having happened ON May 11th, and not the 10th.

-AM says that MS called him on Friday evening saying DM had been arrested and that is how he found out, but yet he also says that he found out at work the next day that he was charged with forcible confinement/theft of TB's truck; he says MS told him to get all of the drugs out of the house; he puts them in his car and drives around, and then parks it overnight on the street;

-AM says Maple Gate was stormed by police on Saturday morning, but yet AM was supposed to have been at work, so how does he know?

-AM calls MH and tells him they have to get together to drop off the drugs to MS; They supposedly did this on the Saturday, but yet AM was working on the Saturday at Campbell's.

-MH says he worked late Friday night and into early Saturday, went home to bed, and when he woke up later on Saturday, he awoke to a bunch of texts from AM saying DM had been arrested and they have to get together, etc. (But meanwhile.. AM is supposedly at work at Campbell's)

-AM says he spoke with MB on the 11th (Saturday), and she and CN came to his father's house to pick up Pedo;

-doesn't it seem like AM had a TERRIBLY busy day on Saturday the 11th, if the house got stormed, he was at work all day, he got together with MH to drop off drugs at a location for MS, he got together with MB to pick up Pedo?

-is it possible that these people are saying they found out on the 10th, but really it was the 11th when they found out? That is the day it hit the news. is it possible Maple Gate got searched on the 12th, vs the 11th?

Just a thought....... ??

And I wonder if part of that is due to the fact that according to tweets they say things like "going back to the day DM was arrested" Meaning the 10th but people hearing the 11th cause that is when it was announced. ?? Just a thought..

But now having said that...doesn't explain the massive text explosions to arrange for the drugs and gun to disappear.. on the 10th Confused :thinking:

 

[newone]

In concern to MM and MS. According to Adam Carter on April 21, MM testified:

"She says she hasn't talked to Smich since he was arrested, and they're no longer together. #TimBosma #Bosma"[/COLOR]

Yet, in Jan/15, we hear that MS has been charged for breaching his recognizance in spring/summer of 2014 for making contact with MM.

"Documents filed with the courthouse in Etobicoke say the alleged breach of recognizance happened between April 10 and July 31 of last year while Smich was in custody at the Toronto West Detention Centre."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

Could be that it was a one sided communication from MS to MM and went straight to LE. She says in her testimony that she hasn't "spoken to him", not that she hasn't had contact with him. IMO, if it was in concern to the LB case it may be off limits with this one. I'm curious if P & S are going to bring this "communication" up tomorrow. MOO

bb&ubm

now that she's testified, I wonder if we will be privy to the number of attempts and by what method.....

that's quite a time span -- roughly four months....

 

[InducedLogic]

Its within the realm of possibility that some reporter got wind (perhaps a bystander or car trapped behind the raid on DM, with a cell and a reporter in mind), and leaked the info early.
Seems this would be a reporters dream.

If so then the police would have quickly contacted the media outlet attached to the reporter and deleted all reference to the story on the web. The live stream would have still gone out, and perhaps that's what "they" saw. "Now live on the scene with unnamed reporter for a breaking development". Unless someone recorded it on a dvr or something similar, no trace on the web.
LE would have the story officially posted the next day and tolerates no discretion. LE is like that sometimes, devoting more resources to policy rather than policing.

The only other theory that comes to mind is that here in the Golden Horseshoe, the police updates on the news were overwhelming during the week of TB's disapperence. MM could have easily mistaken one news conference for another. Perhaps she has things confused.

MM most likely tried to forget about this ever happening. She hasn't spent countless hours putting the specifics in order as we have have tried to do. I pray MM has the nerve to stand her ground tomorrow, god bless her soul.

IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

May 10, 2013:
Police announce that they have located Bosma’s cellphone while searching an industrial area in Brantford, and release updated descriptions of the two suspects. Kijiji issues a statement regarding Tim Bosma’s disappearance.

May 11, 2013:
Police arrest and charge Dellen Millard, 27, with forcible confinement and theft over $5,000 late Saturday morning.

https://edu.hstry.co/timeline/tim-bosma-trial-begins-the-look-back-to-the-police-investigation

-.-.-.-

http://giselle10.rssing.com/chan-6311705/all_p41.html

05/10/13--09:00: New developments in Tim Bosma case

New developments in the search for Timothy Bosma.

Hamilton Police say they found the cell phone belonging to the missing Ancaster man late yesterday afternoon in an industrial area of west Brantford.

Police conducted a thorough search of that area, but nothing else was found.

Click below to listen to Friday's news conference from Hamilton Police headquarters.



Investigators also received a tip that Bosma's truck was seen driving through downtown Brantford at 10:10pm on Monday, 50 minutes after he left his home in Ancaster.

Police are asking Brantford businesses to check their video surveillance for footage of the 2007 Dodge Ram black pickup truck.

Acer Garden Centre at 591 Fiddler's Green Road is also distributing Tim Bosma flyers.

It is open until 8 o'clock tonight.

 

[andreww]

I think DM's D is going to try to prove that MS regularly lied to MM, not that MM lied.

DM thought MM was a child and probably encouraged MS to keep her out of the loop. MS probably regularly lied about his whereabouts to her, and DM would know that.

Will Millards attorney cross examine MM? Seeing as her testimony can only be considered by the jury as it pertains to Smich, what would be the point?

 

[leafs_fan93]

Will Millards attorney cross examine MM? Seeing as her testimony can only be considered by the jury as it pertains to Smich, what would be the point?

Her testimony against Millard can be used, IF she witnessed it , ie. The celebratory mood in the truck on the morning of the 7th. What can't be used against Millard is things MS told her ie. DM shot TB, as it would be hearsay. At least that's how I understand it?

 

[andreww]

. Sounds like a lot of errors in memory, from a lot of friends of DM. Why would they all lie the same? Saying they saw arrest on Friday night news. What is to gain by saying that?

I think MM found out about the arrest on Friday, but thought it was only in relation to some theft. That's when Smich makes the calls. The next day she sees the news report detailing the full extent of the charges against him and freaks out. I think she is combining two days events in to one, probably due to the fact that it's been 3 years and her memory has faded. I always maintain that traumatic events are remembered clearly, so I have no doubt that things happened as she said, just the next day.

 

[andreww]

Her testimony against Millard can be used, IF she witnessed it , ie. The celebratory mood in the truck on the morning of the 7th. What can't be used against Millard is things MS told her ie. DM shot TB, as it would be hearsay. At least that's how I understand it?

That makes sense, thanks!