Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #13

[hopingforjustice]

I don't know the law in how it relates to the specifics of CN's AATF charge, but FWIW, IMO the Crown would not lay such a serious charge against CN if they didn't think they could succeed at trial against CN.

Apparently the Crown strongly opposed CN's bail application and that speaks volumes to me about how serious the charge is and how much evidence the Crown likely has to prove the charge, IMO. I'm sure they will have more evidence to present against CN, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong, but like in this trial when the judge often says to the jurors it's up to them to determine if what a witness is saying is to be believed, I presume at CN's November trial, the judge will also weigh the evidence and testimony in that way too based on what he believes to be true, IMO.

CN is not a believable witness IMO and I think the judge at her trial will agree, IMO. No reasonable person will buy CN's excuse about having no suspicions about DM wanting her to help him move the Eliminator incinerator in the middle of the night, in the pitch dark, and apparently without even using a flashlight, IMO. And even worse, she asserts that when it was known that TB's body had been incinerated this shocking-to-the-rest-of-the-world news made no impact on her and nor did she even then make any connection to the murder of TB and the Eliminator she helped DM move (and likely helped clean out TB's ashes as well), and nor did she admit to that news being troublesome later, IMO. There isn't another person on the planet who would not at the very least concede that, in hindsight, once such news was heard, they would not think back to that night and wonder about the incinerator - especially since by that time DM had been charged with the crime, IMO. CN is a very cagey coyote but her feigned ignorance will not be believed IMO, and it will not work to spare her a conviction, IMO.

CN will be convicted, IMO, and I think she will testify at her own trial thinking herself so much smarter than most people (not smarter than all people, as she impudently conceded in her testimony at this trial - lol), IMO. Perhaps others in DM's crew will speak up against CN at her trial once DM has been convicted (presuming he will be soon) and is no longer perceived as a powerfully intimidating figure or threat in their lives, IMO. I hope I'm right because CN has lessons to learn, although, IMO, like DM, she is not a good candidate for rehabilitation IMO. I know I'd be terrified of them both!

All MOO.

BBM

I agree with you, I do think there is much more out there that we will see when her trial begins but am wondering about the paragraph I bolded above.

She is not obligated to testify at her own trial. So a judge may not get to see her delightful personality. If she does not testify and DM does not get up and say that she was there for that event, then it won't even be brought up if I understand the laws properly. Neither would her drive to MB's house or anything on that night. Am I correct in my thinking here? If I am, then there must be further text evidence or a witness that will place her doing those things that would warrant these charges for that day in particular.

 

[hellkat2]

Does anyone feel that when CN does have her day in court that the Judge will go easy on her because she is female?

I actually think that CN thinks those red shoes are gonna get her some mileage.

 

[Tiggertoo]

Seeing that Instagram photo is actually heartbreaking.

 

[hellkat2]

I don't think either one was framed. I think they both participated in the murder and knew the plan. Although the jury is not supposed to consider it, I can't help but be aware that this was not the first murder with which they are charged. Even if I believed that MS was not guilty in the other murder(s), I don't think I can believe that he was not aware that DM had committed them. I don't see MS getting caught up in this plan to steal a truck (the one theft in which they didn't involve the usual crew), have a gun and then be caught off guard that DM murdered TB. He was at minimum quite aware of what DM was capable of and willing to do.
What I do think, though, is that it was DM's plan. I think that without DM, the murder would not have happened but I think without MS, the murder still could have happened.
As always, JMO

IMO........I wonder if Smich did it as part of the DM initiation/mentoring program. To prove to DM that he was worthy of being a member of the serial killers club.

 

[hellkat2]

I'm not so sure that DM will refrain from telling about CN's part in the crime. He realised that he was in love with her while he was in prison, a love of convenience so that he could instruct her about how she was to save him from murder charges. I don't believe that he has any real committment to her, other than how she can be used for his benefit. I base that on the way he treated all of his friends.

DM's devotion is to himself. I think that he will enjoy being the star at CN's trial, retelling the details of the mission that excited him so much. If DM hadn't been arrested so soon after the crime, would CN still be alive, or would she be one of his missing pothead girl friends who had too much information? I don't think that he would have hesitated to use the eliminator another time.

agreed in full

 

[brightii]

So I had a conversation with a loved one about this case earlier in the week and it resulted in my doubts about MS's role in the murder being more likely than not, IMO. Though that particular discussion did not remove all doubt I had been struggling with about MS's involvement, it certainly helped me to see things more clearly, IMO.

I've been reading through all the trial threads this week and today again and praying all the while for clarity to help me come to a decision that feels right about MS's guilt and miraculously my prayers I believe are now answered. Although I'm not a religious person, I am a spiritual person who does believe in the power of prayer, IMO. I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone, I'm just sharing my experience, IMO. I'm prepared to accept now that MS and DM are both guilty as charged, IMO.

Truly I was hoping for evidence that would prove MS was not the murderer and had no part in it, but when I review the massive amount of circumstantial evidence in this case, the totality of all the evidence is convincing, IMO. Who pulled the trigger? I don't think we'll ever know for sure. If and when DM or MS takes the stand they will blame the other, but tonight I can no longer ignore or try to explain away the fact that in the moments, hours, days, and weeks after TB was murdered neither accused told the truth then, neither called 911 for TB, neither told LE about the gun used to kill TB or its whereabouts, and neither has shown remorse by their actions or omissions since that horrifying night three years ago. It has taken me a long time get where I am tonight, to accept that people can be so corrupt within that they act out to harm others, and not in a moment of heated passion where all control is momentarily lost, but with forethought and malice and all disregard for the value of life, IMO. Any disillusion and a loss of innocence I feel though compares not a whit to the gross injustice of the loss of an innocent life. I had been all along searching for sense to understand a senseless crime but there is no sense to be found, IMO. Talk about mission impossible.

I hope that when justice arrives DM and MS will indeed never dare forget what they did to Tim Bosma (and LB and/or WM likely too, IMO). It also better never be forgotten by any of those who knew how dangerous these characters were and are and chose to keep quiet or to not question anything or to challenge these heartless criminals on anything at any time, IMO.

Tonight as my thoughts turn to Tim Bosma three years later, and near to the time of night when he was viciously taken from his beautiful and loving wife and precious child, heartlessly snatched away from the safety and security of his wonderful family, his loyal friends and his supportive community, I wish them all peace. I have no doubt that they find the strength they all need to carry on from their memories of Tim and his deep love for each of them. I've said so any times that I cannot even imagine the immensity of their pain and that will never change for me, and hopefully I will never have reason to know what they feel and must bear for a lifetime. Now I just wait to hear the verdict and pray for the jury for guidance and courage to make their just decision.

All MOO.

 

[pecosmom]

I have to chuckle at the last two pics on CN's Instagram......obviously taken in her room with great care for composition. We've already seen what a slob she is if her bedroom photos (that were entered into evidence) are any indication, maybe she cleaned things up a bit. Good to see she put all those liquor bottles to good use.

 

[hellkat2]

My my how this guy has changed. And not for the better.

This is Andrew Michalski correct?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Still wish CN wasn't getting so much attention, but at least this sad anniversary is nearly over, along with her testimony.

 

[canadiangirl]

This is Andrew Michalski correct?

Yes! Guess helping cover a murder takes it's toll on person

 

[Errrr]

Here's a link to an article that mentions LB had told her uncle that she was dating a good-looking photographer who had money.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...ck-leaves-lingering-questions-for-police.html

All MOO.

Wow! Those two extra charges were right after CN was arrested?

 

[hellkat2]

Superjails, people, the future for DM and MS is in one of the new horrifying Superjails.

The more horrifying the better IMO. Or bring back Capital Punishment.

 

[hellkat2]

Just wanted to point out that DM, through his letters, considered himself a good photographer and writer. He said he wanted to photograph and write for National Geographic when he was released. Now, we know how impossible that would have been without any education in either field, but I just wanted to point out something that we've been debating for the last couple of years with regards to something LB told her uncle.

Apparently DM considers himself a photographer... a good one at that.

MOO

There is a news article somewhere that said he liked to make *advertiser censored* movies as well.

 

[Arnie M]

Here's a link to an article that mentions LB had told her uncle that she was dating a good-looking photographer who had money.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...ck-leaves-lingering-questions-for-police.html

All MOO.

Wow! Those two extra charges were right after CN was arrested?

Just to leapfrog off those thoughts and add my own ..... I am thinking while police were going through all the computers and phone records and internet histories for the Bosma Trial they also have assembled a lot of information (evidence) about the LB disappearance and death of WM.

We have not been told about it , but I bet plenty will be revealed during those trials . Could be messages back and forth , partly coded or whatever , times and dates and arrangements ..... things like that.

Police have uncovered something in order to lay those charges when they did. Anyone else think the same ????

 

[canadiangirl]

Just to leapfrog off those thoughts and add my own ..... I am thinking while police were going through all the computers and phone records and internet histories for the Bosma Trial they also have assembled a lot of information (evidence) about the LB disappearance and death of WM.

We have not been told about it , but I bet plenty will be revealed during those trials . Could be messages back and forth , partly coded or whatever , times and dates and arrangements ..... things like that.

Police have uncovered something in order to lay those charges when they did. Anyone else think the same ????

I do. They haven't even told LB's family the details. I'm certain they have some hard evidence.

 

[Arnie M]

I do. They haven't even told LB's family the details. I'm certain they have some hard evidence.

Yes , and they probably have to keep a lid on it so as not to influence the current trial. I find an intriguing time gap in what we know so far .... police have already stated they think LB was incinerated .... the unit was ordered in June 2013 , didn't arrive until later in July , and was not functioning until maybe a month or so after LB was last seen.

Makes me wonder if there were any big old freezers on any Millard properties. Or did they try to use the homemade SS incinerator. Wonder where it ended up.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Police have uncovered something in order to lay those charges when they did. Anyone else think the same ????

I have been thinking that way for some time now.

 

[SuperSpy]

I know it's been mentioned before, but this is not CN's trial. The Crown's goal is to get convictions against DM and MS, and it really wouldn't serve their purpose to make CN look bad. The Crown needed CN to help them in this trial. Same for the respective defence counsel. In truth, unless I'm missing something I can't really understand why Dungey went on as he did. How did that help MS?

I think 2 things happened. 1) he became very frustrated and irritated with her memory lapses and 2) He was exploring the waters for her upcoming trial. The material from this trial can't be used in that trial, except in cases where she answers a similar question and gives a different answer. And also to charge her with perjury if her story changes later on.

 

[ABro]

BBM

I agree with you, I do think there is much more out there that we will see when her trial begins but am wondering about the paragraph I bolded above.

She is not obligated to testify at her own trial. So a judge may not get to see her delightful personality. If she does not testify and DM does not get up and say that she was there for that event, then it won't even be brought up if I understand the laws properly. Neither would her drive to MB's house or anything on that night. Am I correct in my thinking here? If I am, then there must be further text evidence or a witness that will place her doing those things that would warrant these charges for that day in particular.

This is incorrect. The facts remain the facts. The can be introduced through other witnesses.

IN this case, however, I would think what we will see at CN's trial is the introduction of an agreed statement of facts where she admits she was present. Her position, after all, is she didn't know not that she wasn't there. If she doesn't testify, which I doubt she will after her performance at the Tim Bosma trial, it will be up to her lawyer to construct her innocence narrative.

 

[Dutchman]

Thinking that they do have proof that CN did ask the two boys to change their testimony. But because they choose not to, did not change the stats of this case, and they are holding that evidence for hers. ( this could have also been the reason for the falling out among thieves that one wanted to and the other not, however, they needed both to comply to make sense.) also in my humble opinion that there was more than one collect call to that phone booth. CN choose to retell the one call where possibly a guard was near by and he sang her a song. She did say they ate there often cuz it was close to her house. A sliver of truth among the lies. In my opinion.