Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[JuneBug67]

I would not want to be the jury trying to sort out the argument Pillay made about the 9:05 and 9:15 truck sightings on the Super Sucker video. His argument is that the video time stamp was not 3 hours off, but 3 hours and 10 minutes off. If that was the case, a couple of facts fit more neatly. If his argument is correct:

-DM and MS pass by the Super Sucker on the way to TB's at about 8:56. Super Sucker is about 2 minutes drive from TB's.
-Arrive about two minutes later about 8:58 and park in the field, walk over to TB's and make contact by phone and arrive about 9:05
-Talk for a few minutes and leave for test drive, seen again on Super Sucker video at 9:15
-Seen again at 9:25 heading back to Yukon in field
-Arrive in field, pick up Yukon and both vehicles seen again at 9:30 on Super Sucker video
-Arrive at Bobcat roughly 19 minutes later at 9:49 as seen on Bobcat video. This is the correct drive time direct from Super Sucker to Bobcat.
-In this scenario you have to believe that both Super Sucker manager and police officer who testified video was 3 hours off missed the extra 10 minutes. Officer said he checked it against his iPhone time, manager against his watch. Officer had no notes that said he checked it against phone, just that it was 3 hours off. Manager could not say when he had his watch serviced, but it was one minute off the time on a court computer.

If Crown/MS argument is correct:
-Yukon first passes Super Sucker at 8:46 pm and could have arrived near Tim's 2 minutes later. The accused don't arrive in the driveway until 9:05 leaving almost 20 minutes to find the field, park and walk over to the Bosma's which has been estimated to be a 5-7 minute walk. In this scenario there has to be some kind of delay in either finding the field, parking in it or leaving the Yukon to walk over.
-Leave the Bosma's after several minutes of discussion, go directly to field, drop off Mark, leave together and be seen on Super Sucker video at about 9:20.
-Take some kind of route or drive in some kind of circumstance that adds 10 minutes to what would be the direct route from Super Sucker to Bobcat

I find this a really tough call. The Bobcat stop seems to have little purpose in a scenario where Tim has already lost his life, unless they just booked it with a plan to stop and catch their breath, change plates etc. so they could get away from the scene. You'd have to believe both the police officer and the Super Sucker manager who called himself a stickler for time missed the 10 minutes and just rounded off to three hours off in a situation where both would clearly be expected to understand the key importance of precision. But the Pillay timeline fits much more neatly with no delays necessary either between the Super Sucker and the Bosma's or the Super Sucker and the Bobcat. I'm glad I'm just babbling on WS in this instance and not a jury member. Truly don't know how I'd call this. Hopefully maybe they have a bit more clarity in the courtroom. The Crown would have had no particular investment in either scenario, and clearly just went with the one that matched the time as reported by LE and Super Sucker management.

 

[hopingforjustice]

This has been a burning question for me as well. If MS knew the plan was to kill TB, why would both go to TB's house?

I just don't buy the "going back later" thing.. Even if they were totally skilled at getting it going by whatever means...the alarm system on those beasts are deafening. My son in laws went off the other night and it rocked the neighbourhood. They had to count on the fact that whoever they were stealing from did not lock the doors first. Unless of course SS taught them how to dismantle that too! JMO

 

[Claroon]

This might have been discussed way back. Google says it should take 18 min from Super Sucker to Brantford Bobcat. DM should have arrived there 9:37 but he arrived 9:47. 10 more min. unaccounted for. I'd imagine he would drive fast with Adrenalin and I don't know that highway to ever be backed up.

 

[Errrr]

. But they still lie. CN certainly lied when she answered "I don't recall" to almost every question! There is no consequence to lying on stand. Why swear oath or on bible?

So they can charge you with perjury if they catch you at it.

 

[Claroon]

This is sitting well with me regarding the passing of the Super Sucker twice.

Google maps says it would take 10 min to do a loop that includes a ride on the 403 - a usual part of a test drive, getting back on the highway reverse direction = 10 min.

Perhaps as they returned to TB's they said they decided they'd get dropped to the "friend", pull up to the Yukon, bop TB on the head. Gag and tie up.

NOW, what would have been ideal would be if the Super Soaker video showed a smashed passenger window or not!

I don't think the view was good enough or if it was it was not smashed at that point.

 

[brightii]

I would not want to be the jury trying to sort out the argument Pillay made about the 9:05 and 9:15 truck sightings on the Super Sucker video. His argument is that the video time stamp was not 3 hours off, but 3 hours and 10 minutes off. If that was the case, a couple of facts fit more neatly. If his argument is correct:

-DM and MS pass by the Super Sucker on the way to TB's at about 8:56. Super Sucker is about 2 minutes drive from TB's.
-Arrive about two minutes later about 8:58 and park in the field, walk over to TB's and make contact by phone and arrive about 9:05
-Talk for a few minutes and leave for test drive, seen again on Super Sucker video at 9:15
-Seen again at 9:25 heading back to Yukon in field
-Arrive in field, pick up Yukon and both vehicles seen again at 9:30 on Super Sucker video
-Arrive at Bobcat roughly 19 minutes later at 9:49 as seen on Bobcat video. This is the correct drive time direct from Super Sucker to Bobcat.
-In this scenario you have to believe that both Super Sucker manager and police officer who testified video was 3 hours off missed the extra 10 minutes. Officer said he checked it against his iPhone time, manager against his watch. Officer had no notes that said he checked it against phone, just that it was 3 hours off. Manager could not say when he had his watch serviced, but it was one minute off the time on a court computer.

If Crown/MS argument is correct:
-Yukon first passes Super Sucker at 8:46 pm and could have arrived near Tim's 2 minutes later. The accused don't arrive in the driveway until 9:05 leaving almost 20 minutes to find the field, park and walk over to the Bosma's which has been estimated to be a 5-7 minute walk. In this scenario there has to be some kind of delay in either finding the field, parking in it or leaving the Yukon to walk over.
-Leave the Bosma's after several minutes of discussion, go directly to field, drop off Mark, leave together and be seen on Super Sucker video at about 9:20.
-Take some kind of route or drive in some kind of circumstance that adds 10 minutes to what would be the direct route from Super Sucker to Bobcat

I find this a really tough call. The Bobcat stop seems to have little purpose in a scenario where Tim has already lost his life, unless they just booked it with a plan to stop and catch their breath, change plates etc. so they could get away from the scene. You'd have to believe both the police officer and the Super Sucker manager who called himself a stickler for time missed the 10 minutes and just rounded off to three hours off in a situation where both would clearly be expected to understand the key importance of precision. But the Pillay timeline fits much more neatly with no delays necessary either between the Super Sucker and the Bosma's or the Super Sucker and the Bobcat. I'm glad I'm just babbling on WS in this instance and not a jury member. Truly don't know how I'd call this. Hopefully maybe they have a bit more clarity in the courtroom. The Crown would have had no particular investment in either scenario, and clearly just went with the one that matched the time as reported by LE and Super Sucker management.

I'm terrible with both the timing and geography aspects, but your post has actually helped me understand the possibilities better. It's impressive how you and some others can really explain things and break it all down so that it makes more sense to those of us who have trouble putting all the pieces together. Thank you.

All MOO.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

It may have been that they did not want to take the chance that TB or his wife would take down their license plate number. So they did not want to drive up in the truck.

DM had ghost plates on his Yukon. SS installed it for him.

 

[canadiangirl]

I just don't buy the "going back later" thing.. Even if they were totally skilled at getting it going by whatever means...the alarm system on those beasts are deafening. My son in laws went off the other night and it rocked the neighbourhood. They had to count on the fact that whoever they were stealing from did not lock the doors first. Unless of course SS taught them how to dismantle that too! JMO

Thing is MS testified they had been looking for a year and the missions failed so they decided to go the test drive route now....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wonder if there were some walkie talkies involved as they have been on other missions.

Could it be their U-turns / driving directions had to do with alarm from walkie-talkie outlooks?

 

[ArianeEmory]

DM had ghost plates on his Yukon. SS installed it for him.

Not positive (Variant, if you're lurking) but I think those plates are meant to look normal to the naked eyes, but to be hard or impossible for toll cameras to photograph.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I was trying to do calculations but I eventually decided it was pointless due to variables. Here's what I was thinking...

MH said the toolbox was 4-5 pounds with contents. The Walther is lightweight, about a pound. I'm unsure of the toolbox model to know its weight. One toolbox model is 2 lb. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-16In-Toolbox-1-92-065/dp/B0001IWARW so that takes it to 3 lbs. I think all MS said was in it was a cloth--unlikely to be heavy . Didn't say if anything else was in it.

So makes me think 2nd gun if it was 5 pounds more or less.

Or some people suck at judging weight? I could pick up a 7lb steal ball. I may guess it to be 5lbs and my hubby may guess 7lbs right on. His judgement on weight is usually bang on where my judgement of weight usually isn't.

 

[canadiangirl]

Or some people suck at judging weight? I could pick up a 7lb steal ball. I may guess it to be 5lbs and my hubby may guess 7lbs right on. His judgement on weight is usually bang on where my judgement of weight usually isn't.

Agreed. Ask 10 people to show you what 5 inches is. Same thing

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Not positive (Variant, if you're lurking) but I think those plates are meant to look normal to the naked eyes, but to be hard or impossible for toll cameras to photograph.

From what I got, MS said plate cover. I'm assuming this would make the plate non readable. Sorry, I called it a "ghost plate" not sure what else to call it. From reading on about them many discussions ago. And DM'S front bumper was modified kind of supporting that idea.

ETA: google ghost plates. With a flick of a switch, the plate becomes invisible.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

So they can charge you with perjury if they catch you at it.

Yes, but, unfortunately, even though perjury happens frequently every day in every courtroom in Canada, very few perjury charges are ever laid. It would back-up the court system tremendously more than it already is.

I think the lies would have to be so egregious as to change the entire outcome of a case before perjury charges would be laid.

MOO

 

[mskrisc]

Well, except it has been mentioned, by one of MS's buddies.

Yes, agree ! I thought it was clear that each owned their own guns. That was established, then never heard again about gun # 2 .

 

[Deleted member 102539]

DM had ghost plates on his Yukon. SS installed it for him.

When DM got the carding (I don't know in which car he was in at that time?) police noticed his "ambition" tattoo but NOT something about existing ghost plates - strange (for me).

 

[CJPRINCESS]

When DM got the carding (I don't know in which car he was in at that time?) police noticed his "ambition" tattoo but NOT something about existing ghost plates - strange (for me).

We don't know when he has SS install the "plate cover" as MS testified to. Could have been before he got carded. Google ghost plates as I said in my above post and you will actually see what they look like. They look like a normal plate untill you flick the switch.

 

[mskrisc]

I just don't buy the "going back later" thing.. Even if they were totally skilled at getting it going by whatever means...the alarm system on those beasts are deafening. My son in laws went off the other night and it rocked the neighbourhood. They had to count on the fact that whoever they were stealing from did not lock the doors first. Unless of course SS taught them how to dismantle that too! JMO

Not to mention Bosmas Dog! Also, was is stored in their garage at night? I think once DM arrived at TB's home , he knew there was only one way he'd get this truck.

 

[Arnie M]

This might have been discussed way back. Google says it should take 18 min from Super Sucker to Brantford Bobcat. DM should have arrived there 9:37 but he arrived 9:47. 10 more min. unaccounted for. I'd imagine he would drive fast with Adrenalin and I don't know that highway to ever be backed up.

Police have mapped it all out including the distances and times , and it was all shown in court .... they did a good job and it is a settled matter for the most part.

Concerned about extra vehicles ?? .... probably hundreds of cars and trucks were on those videos for that day. If Pillay thinks the earlier black trucks are relevant he can ask Mark in court today. Either MS will add details to prove his credibility , or he will become evasive which will put him in a worse light than if he had said nothing. If his "story" has an element of truth to it he will tell us more.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

We don't know when he has SS install the "plate cover" as MS testified to. Could have been before he got carded. Google ghost plates as I said in my above post and you will actually see what they look like. They look like a normal plate untill you flick the switch.

Always check your local laws before installing any devise which is capable of completely obscuring your license plate information. GHOSTPLATE™ is intended for off-road and show purposes only.

:notgood: if police can't discover it.