Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[Arnie M]

.

The sausages in a pan and the wooden bench are for sitting and snacking while staring at the 54 barrels in the barn that had nothing to do with anything

 

[mimimic]

Not to steal a truck or it would not take that long

Right
and I suppose
it took so long to come up with a plan because of the chip key
and the best they came up with is test drives and a gun. The rest is a guess on how they did it.
Someone- is- dead -and- they- did- it -together. Their plan may have failed in executing exactly as planned. but; Tim is gone. I don't think 25 years is long enough.

 

[Errrr]

It's speculation to assume what "jobs" MS was made to do. AJ testified he was working at the hanger doing nothing hanger related and didn't ask questions. MM cleaned toilets. SS was his lackie, built a generator. Showed him some mechanic stuff.

I don't see where there is evidence that MS looked for the generator? That was DM and SS text. I don't see evidence that MS was involved in the vehicle swap beforehand. That was Javier and DM.

Again, I see DM all over it. I see no actual proof MS. A few texts that can be taken out of context and some online searches that others did as well. Moo

Maybe you should read over billanddrews timeline?

 

[canadiangirl]

Maybe you should read over billanddrews timeline?

I have thank you. As have others I assume who have some doubts.

 

[Webulls]

For one, they didn't wait 10 months. I can almost guarantee that that incinerator was used on LB soon after its purchase. And god knows who else it may have been used on. As far as the truck theft goes, Smich admits that they had already tried other tactics and failed. Millard has SS building a trailer on a tight deadline so we know he needs that truck soon, either for Baja or the "other purposes" that Smich couldn't mention. Add to that the model of truck was somewhat rare. Then throw in the tidbit that Millard was cash strapped. They had been looking for a while, yes, but the time was right and Millard was taking that truck. So tell me, why is Millard preparing the "BBQ"? Looking for the generator? As Fraser said, there was no evidence that thing had ever been used to burn anything but human remains. Millard makes no effort to hide the fact that he is getting it ready and Smich never questions what the hell he was talking about. This case is about as clear cut as a case comes and it amazes me that some people just can't see it.

Well said Andrew. Logical and intelligent reasoning.

 

[ABro]

Is it true that if MS told TD that he either a) shot TB or b) was in the truck when TB was shot, that TD could not put him on the stand if he knew MS was going to lie? (I understand there are unethical lawyers, just like any profession....but more as a general rule of thumb).

Granted, MS could have said very little even to TD and only come up with his version of events after discovery......could a lawyer suggest a version of events to their client?

Appreciate your input. I'm not trying to be difficult....i'm just taking longer to get there than some people....and helpful and informative answers to these kinds of questions are useful in moving the conversation along. mOO

I don't doubt that your questions are in good faith and they are good questions. But the problem is we can't draw conclusions or get to the truth of this or any other case by making assumptions about the solicitor/client relationship because that's a privileged relationship. It is therefore pointless to speculate about it.

So speaking in general terms only, no, a lawyer cannot knowingly suborn perjury.

 

[Errrr]

Just had a thought about a line of questioning Fraser had yesterday.

He was asking MS about if Tim was worried or realizing something was "off" about the test drive. I guess if they could get MS to say that Tim was uncomfortable yet he was given no chance to leave the truck, that might show his forcible confinement?

MOO.

I think the idea was to point out the situation as MS describes it as implausible. That MS could exit the vehicle at that point without raising alarm in Tim would be hard to believe unless Tim had been prevented from leaving, either by death or restraint.

 

[Claroon]

I keep seeing this argument, but individual pieces of evidence have to at least support what they are purported to to contribute to a greater whole. I see a good example of the totality of evidence principle in the example of DM using a burner phone, DM providing a false name and DM/MS concealing the Yukon at both test drives. Each of these things could be explained away in some way: there could be some reason for using a burner phone, maybe Dell gets sick of repeating his uncommon name over the phone and just uses Evan instead, maybe they parked far away because Pedo barked when left alone and they were trying to be considerate etc. etc. whatever. But taken together, there can't really be any reasonable doubt that these actions were related and a reasonable person will conclude that they were hiding their identities in furtherance of a crime. "Bring a change of clothes", "fireworks tonight",, "see about the BBQ for this week" are all much more ambiguous and loosely connected and the possibility of misinterpretation is much greater. In that case the risk and I others see is that more garbage in just equals more garbage out, and your only 'totality' is a total pile of garbage on some of these points.

Perhaps it's because that's how the perps wanted it to appear, like meaningless garbage. And MS conveniently erased messages that would most likely have been incriminating. How many people wipe clean their messages on a regular basis? That in itself is evidence of planning and self-protection. IMO.

There is no doubt they talk in code and make jokes about unlawful and heinous activity.There's a pattern. They don't seem to think there is anything wrong with stealing trailers, a bobcat..."Smich agrees that he and Millard were "pretty good at thieving."" They want it, they take it. Their morals were next to none IMO. So if they talk in code, it's reasonable to assume talk of fireworks, sausages, five fingering some ammo, had more to it.

That his drug dealer friend just happens to also be a weapons dealer is no coincidence. "Smich says he introduced Millard to Isho through drugs," You don't go "woops, I didn't realize he sold guns too." MS did the introduction.

MS told DM they needed a good plan, no mistakes could be made. When Millard texts this "Once they're complete I will have proper time for us to run the missions & chill" Millard's text reads."..."... Once that's done, next on the list is: getting you a G1, sound equipment for recording," "nab a dodge 3500, sell the green jeep, nab a Nacra18 sail boat." there is a person on the other end receiving the text and that is MS. He is IN the conversation. He was in the plans. That his buddy ended up committing murder or his own ill-used gun went off is too bad for him. You don't get to go "woops, I didn't plan to shoot him, I didn't mean to kill him, therefore I shouldn't be penalized." Doesn't work that way.

They had TB in TB's vehicle, THEY had the weapon(s), it was not self-defense, it was not a mere accident. IMO It was a planned activity that resulted in death and therefore there is a 1st degree murder charge.

 

[Just4TB]

Now he has tweeted:

Adrian Humphreys ‏@AD_Humphreys 4m4 minutes ago
.@... @...By popular demand (!) I undertake to post video on the mysterious and elusive Exhibit #144. Maybe tonight #Bosma

I believe Adrian Humphreys makes the "What the Jury saw" videos with the creepy music.
Since he seems open to requests, we should ask him to release the Bobcat of Brantford video with the original audio!!

 

[canadiangirl]

I've said it before and I'll say it again as people are asking..
Rap lyrics. Love of violent video games. Text messages about sausages and referring to fireworks doesn't say premeditation to me for MS.
Researching a truck to steal or texting about a homemade incinerator doesn't say premeditation for me either as others were doing the same with them. (otherwise AM and SS are also guilty they just didn't go on this "mission" so they walk away free?)

Willingness to clean up after a crime, hiding evidence and ensuring someone doesn't try to sell you up the river because you were there, again doesn't tell me anything. (CN did it too very willingly and she didn't murder TB).

Not being panicked until after DM was arrested again, and? I bet CN went about her life just fine until DM was arrested too. And even afterwards until her own arrest. I'm speculating on that but if she was so panicked she certainly had no issues being sung to on the phone and exchanging letters.

Saying MS doesn't remember where the gun is also doesn't mean much. Likely he does. And likely it's gone. IMO But having the gun at this point, what would that do? It won't magically tell us who fired it.

I know I'm in the minority here with my personal opinions, and that's ok. I've been a part of this thread since day 1 when Tim went missing. I was convinced before trial they both did it. Put them away. After the evidence is in, I'm just not there for MS. I will respect whatever the verdict is by the jury. That doesn't mean I have to agree with anyone just as they don't have to agree with me. The snippy comments from posters because you don't see what they do are very disrespectful of a forum whereby you're in discussion not on the jury.



All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[Ontario Mom]

So then, no thoughts about the sausage/fireside furniture texts from MS to DM on the night of May 2 when he was planning his own mission for that night, and wanted DM to come with him? :thinking:

 

[RandomName479]

Perhaps it's because that's how the perps wanted it to appear, like meaningless garbage. And MS conveniently erased messages that would most likely have been incriminating. How many people wipe clean their messages on a regular basis? That in itself is evidence of planning and self-protection. IMO.

There is no doubt they talk in code and make jokes about unlawful and heinous activity.There's a pattern. They don't seem to think there is anything wrong with stealing trailers, a bobcat..."Smich agrees that he and Millard were "pretty good at thieving."" They want it, they take it. Their morals were next to none IMO. So if they talk in code, it's reasonable to assume talk of fireworks, sausages, five fingering some ammo, had more to it.

That his drug dealer friend just happens to also be a weapons dealer is no coincidence. "Smich says he introduced Millard to Isho through drugs," You don't go "woops, I didn't realize he sold guns too." MS did the introduction.

MS told DM they needed a good plan, no mistakes could be made. When Millard texts this "Once they're complete I will have proper time for us to run the missions & chill" Millard's text reads."..."... Once that's done, next on the list is: getting you a G1, sound equipment for recording," "nab a dodge 3500, sell the green jeep, nab a Nacra18 sail boat." there is a person on the other end receiving the text and that is MS. He is IN the conversation. He was in the plans. That his buddy ended up committing murder or his own ill-used gun went off is too bad for him. You don't get to go "woops, I didn't plan to shoot him, I didn't mean to kill him, therefore I shouldn't be penalized." Doesn't work that way.

They had TB in TB's vehicle, THEY had the weapon(s), it was not self-defense, it was not a mere accident. IMO It was a planned activity that resulted in death and therefore there is a 1st degree murder charge.

He was in on the plans to steal. 100% proven. Beyond any possible shadow of a doubt. In on those plans. I don't think anyone will argue that.

But in Canada, it is not 1st degree when a murder happens during the commission of a crime. Prove premedition of the murder (not the theft) or prove forcible confinement.....then we have 1st degree murder. But your logic is that MS was involved in the planning of a theft and during that theft someone got killed....that is not 1st degree. MOO

 

[Webulls]

I've expanded my timeline to include as many texts and other evidence as I could find going back to February 9, 2012. Nearly 225 rows were added today.

At this point, I'm almost convinced that he's aware of a murder about to take place. Now add in:

• His apparent willingness to help clean up after the murder
• His celebratory mood in the truck with Meneses
• His never going to the police
• His never showing any sign of panic until he knew the police were onto him
• His own testimony, which given the timing could have been formulated to fit the evidence, yet it still contains many holes and directly contradicts several other witnesses' testimony, many of whom did not have an incentive to lie about those facts in this case.

My personal verdict? Smich is guilty as charged.

BINGO! All this BS about "I did what he told me, I was scared, I was confused"...sorry Smich, not everyone is an idiot.

 

[ArianeEmory]

So then, no thoughts about the sausage/fireside furniture texts from MS to DM on the night of May 2 when he was planning his own mission for that night, and wanted DM to come with him? :thinking:

They're basically a huge question mark to me at this point. I expected there to be follow-up, but the media and the lawyers have all steadfastly ignored them since they were entered into evidence.

I was one of the people who flipped out when those tweets appeared, but I expected to receive more context. Maybe they will be brought up in closing?

(As an aside, I'm kind of saddened by the tone the threads have taken in the last week or so. I've been more or less afraid to post. It would be nice if people could debate facts/opinions and not lash out personally at posters or groups of posters.)

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I know that this isn't relevant at all, but I am curious ... Does anyone know what Schlatman said to the police when they went to the hangar about the GPS on the stolen Bobcat?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ABro]

They're basically a huge question mark to me at this point. I expected there to be follow-up, but the media and the lawyers have all steadfastly ignored them since they were entered into evidence.

I was one of the people who flipped out when those tweets appeared, but I expected to receive more context. Maybe they will be brought up in closing?

(As an aside, I'm kind of saddened by the tone the threads have taken in the last week or so. I've been more or less afraid to post. It would be nice if people could debate facts/opinions and not lash out personally at posters or groups of posters.)

And what about Marlena's testimony -- that they were celebrating in the truck, that they were happy, that they said the mission went well? Where does that fit in for you?

 

[mimimic]

All over this statement I see the name "Millard"

For one, they didn't wait 10 months. I can almost guarantee that that incinerator was used on LB soon after its purchase. And god knows who else it may have been used on. As far as the truck theft goes, Smich admits that they had already tried other tactics and failed. Millard has SS building a trailer on a tight deadline so we know he needs that truck soon, either for Baja or the "other purposes" that Smich couldn't mention. Add to that the model of truck was somewhat rare. Then throw in the tidbit that Millard was cash strapped. They had been looking for a while, yes, but the time was right and Millard was taking that truck. So tell me, why is Millard preparing the "BBQ"? Looking for the generator? As Fraser said, there was no evidence that thing had ever been used to burn anything but human remains. Millard makes no effort to hide the fact that he is getting it ready and Smich never questions what the hell he was talking about. This case is about as clear cut as a case comes and it amazes me that some people just can't see it.

These were jumping out at me tonight. I want to believe MS didn't know, but i think he did. For those who think he didn't, why are you so sure DM didn't. I am not sure why everyone who thinks MS is not as guilty, thinks DM is the only one capable of this. They both played with real guns.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I believe Adrian Humphreys makes the "What the Jury saw" videos with the creepy music.
Since he seems open to requests, we should ask him to release the Bobcat of Brantford video with the original audio!!

I did ask him that a short while ago, and posted his response here ... I will search for it and come back to re-post it.

ETA: I am sorry that I don't know how to post a WS link from Tapatalk, so here is an image of the above-mentioned post:

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Claroon]

All over this statement I see the name "Millard"

Kind of like Bonnie and Clyde. Clyde's name was all over their robberies and murders, but they both went down. IMO

 

[Claroon]

Like I said in a previous post, a few days ago --- I wonder if LB was the victim of a snuff movie ? That would probably make a lot of money.

She may also have been killed because she knew too much, and was unstable because of her drug use. Also, she might have been pregnant, and that would have been an inconvenience for DM too. There could even have been other victims, girls who were " escorts " -- girls no one would go looking for because they no longer had ties to family. IMO

Sad and horrific to think, but unfortunately, a possibility.