Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[Tealgrove]

Adam Carter just tweeted that Closing Arguments will begin on May 31st. They have rescheduled

 

[redheart]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 4m4 minutes ago
They just revised the #TimBosma trial schedule - the jury will now be back on May 31 when closing arguments will begin. #Bosma #HamOnt #sc

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 4m4 minutes ago
The jury is in the #Bosma trial is actually going to be back Tuesday (not Wed) after a schedule revision. Closing arguments will begin then.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
In court for #Bosma legal args. Judge has changed schedule. Jury now coming back Tuesday for Millard closing args. @CHCHNews

 

[Katpaws]

Once again, 100% certainty is not the standard for conviction. It's beyond reasonable doubt. The question to be posed is, given all the evidence taken together, is your doubt reasonable?

I don't know, and it just makes me ask the question, is what seems reasonable to me, also reasonable to someone else?

I'm glad I'm not on the jury.

 

[ABro]

I don't know, and it just makes me ask the question, is what seems reasonable to me, also reasonable to someone else?

I'm glad I'm not on the jury.

I'm glad all the people who say "I'm glad I'm not on the jury" aren't on the jury.

 

[mozzagirl]

Paraphrasing from yesterday...

Fraser: You met with Millard for 50 minutes, what did you talk about?

Smich: I don't remember

Fraser: You talked about hiding the guns and drugs!

Smich: Thats not true.


So how would Smich know that they didn't talk about the guns and drugs if he didn't remember the conversation? :thinking:

I was thinking the exact same thing. If MS really doesn't remember the conversation than how does he remember what he didn't talk about.

 

[Tealgrove]

For those "in the know", who will present closing arguments first? Is it the Crown, then Millard, then Smich?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Once again, 100% certainty is not the standard for conviction. It's beyond reasonable doubt. The question to be posed is, given all the evidence taken together, is your doubt reasonable?

I'm sure for some, that's going to be a tough call. On this forum, many will say that any doubts are not reasonable, but several others see it differently. I can't imagine the members of the jury are really any different from us here discussing this so it stands to reason there might be some who have reasonable doubt when it comes to either MS or DM.

For me, the evidence taken as a whole is far more damning toward DM than MS (no surprise to anyone, I'm sure) and that's sort of unsettling because I could be completely wrong. No two ways about it, the responsibility of those jury members is massive. Deciding a man's fate is not to be taken lightly.

 

[mozzagirl]

For those "in the know", who will present closing arguments first? Is it the Crown, then Millard, then Smich?

SC tweeted last night that it will be Pillay, Dungey, Leitch.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I was thinking the exact same thing. If MS really doesn't remember the conversation than how does he remember what he didn't talk about.

Well, if we were talking about anyone else besides MS and DM that would be easy. I may not remember exactly what I talked about with my daughter a week ago, but I can be 100% certain we didn't talk about quilting, or astronomy.

In this case though, I think MS is full of poop, because the only thing him and DM had to talk about at that point were details of this crime, the cover up and how not to get caught. They may not have discussed hiding the gun or drugs specifically though (they may have talked about other aspects of the crime/cover up) so in that instance MS could be telling a partial truth.

Unless they were talking about quilting. :thinking:

 

[ADAWG]

After hearing all the evidence and the cross from the crown. I have no doubt that this was planned on both parts. It was planned well enough that outside the slip of the tattoo and an observant IT. The plan likely would've been completed successfully.

After Sachak cross I had some doubts as his version of the events was so far fetched it seemed reasonable Smich may not have had an idea.

The crown solidified it for me with all the text message and how much contact was initiated by a suppose scared Smich. He was certainly all in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Thanks .... and to add to that , TB's truck was more desirable because in the following years they started putting a lot of emissions crap on the engines.

I went out to the rez for gas the other day and decided to detour down to Trinity Rd. While in that area I spotted two black trucks. Both had chrome grills, wheels, side rails and running lights. However, they were not Rams, they were both Ford Super Duties. I didn't realize that Ford made trucks with the same type front clip as the Dodge Ram. Then as I'm heading home, I see a silver GMC truck. Same characteristics as the previous two Fords on Trinity. I thought the tapered front fenders and running lights were a Ram thing but I guess I thought wrong.

Anyhow, with all the talk on the SS'S video and the possibility of the first two passes being TB'S truck, I just thought I'd share. As I'm still stuck between MS'S version (plus MS restraining TB) and Pillay's version (with time stamps being off 3hrs plus mins) of where TB was murdered.

 

[andreww]

A VERY good point. I think if he hadn't been caught, it's very likely he would still be living that life. Even if DM getting arrested "scared him", I see no reason to believe he might have turned a new leaf without rehabilitation of some kind.

In the ten days following DMs arrest your little angel Mark Smich managed to deal about a pound of weed, reached out to a known weapons dealer and likely sold at least one gun. Yep, Del's arrest really made him see the light and turn over a new leaf.

 

[mozzagirl]

I think people are thinking that the next week no one is in court and that is where the "why do lawyers need so much time" "maybe it is to give the Bosmas a break" thoughts are coming from.

From my understanding, they are still in court almost everyday until closing arguments. It is all discussions about the charge to the jury though. That is why the jury gets the week off and there is no live tweeting by reporters.

SC tweeted this last night.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 15h15 hours ago
Susan Clairmont Retweeted xxxx
Yes and yes. 10 am.


xxxx@susanclairmont Is there still court proceedings tomorrow? Preparing the charge, is that open to public?

 

[andreww]

After hearing all the evidence and the cross from the crown. I have no doubt that this was planned on both parts. It was planned well enough that outside the slip of the tattoo and an observant IT. The plan likely would've been completed successfully.

After Sachak cross I had some doubts as his version of the events was so far fetched it seemed reasonable Smich may not have had an idea.

The crown solidified it for me with all the text message and how much contact was initiated by a suppose scared Smich. He was certainly all in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No it wouldn't have been. AJ's call to crime stoppers would have eventually been traced back to him and he would have sung like a canary when they showed up at his front door. Failing that, as soon as a crime stoppers reward was offered, one of Millards minions would have eventually ratted him out.

 

[ABro]

I'm sure for some, that's going to be a tough call. On this forum, many will say that any doubts are not reasonable, but several others see it differently. I can't imagine the members of the jury are really any different from us here discussing this so it stands to reason there might be some who have reasonable doubt when it comes to either MS or DM.

Of course, they're different. This is a self selecting group of people who come here to discuss crime. Many not only want to know "the truth." They are convinced they can find it. Over and over again, we see posters who think they know more than recognized authorities like the police (Yes, there is a third suspect), forensics experts (he must have been shot from behind), the lawyers (DM's lawyers are so awful), etc.

I see a huge difference between people who go online to discuss this case and those I talk to in the real world about it. There is a large streak of conspiratorial thinking online in the refusal to accept recognized authorities and the conviction of certain posters that they know better. I doubt there are going to be jury members insisting there's a third suspect.

For me, the evidence taken as a whole is far more damning toward DM than MS (no surprise to anyone, I'm sure) and that's sort of unsettling because I could be completely wrong.

I've seen you say this many times but it doesn't matter if the evidence is more damning to one than the other. In cases where there is more than one accused, it they all planned and committed a murder, they're all guilty. One doesn't get off because s/he is a marginally less despicable person than the other co-accused.

I No two ways about it, the responsibility of those jury members is massive. Deciding a man's fate is not to be taken lightly.

Being a juror is our responsibility as citizens. No one is taking it lightly. There is nothing morally or ethically superior about having a hard time making decisions. There is no reason to think that taking a long time to decide leads to a better decision. You seem to be suggesting that people who have come to a conclusion are taking it more "lightly" than you are.

 

[ABro]

No it wouldn't have been. AJ's call to crime stoppers would have eventually been traced back to him and he would have sung like a canary when they showed up at his front door. Failing that, as soon as a crime stoppers reward was offered, one of Millards minions would have eventually ratted him out.

No. The whole premise of Crime Stoppers is that it is anonymous. Without being able to give that promise of anonymity, it would cease to exist.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Thanks .... and to add to that , TB's truck was more desirable because in the following years they started putting a lot of emissions crap on the engines.

Another thing. My hubby doesn't follow the case but has answered many of my truck questions for me. My one question to him was, is it possible to swap single axle to dual and swap the boxes out. He said yes, if SS knew what he was doing. Now with all my..that truck is NOT rare..blah..blah..blah! I didn't notice that TB'S truck had the running lights (my error and apologies to those I debated with) This is mandatory for the dually (so I've been told) making TB'S truck perfect to swap out for DM'S red truck. Swap the VIN, the box, dual axles and red paint on TB's and he's got his red Ram complete. This made more sense to me then just swapping the VIN.

 

[raining]

Of course, they're different. This is a self selecting group of people who come here to discuss crime. Many not only want to know "the truth." They are convinced they can find it. Over and over again, we see posters who think they know more than recognized authorities like the police (Yes, there is a third suspect), forensics experts (he must have been shot from behind), the lawyers (DM's lawyers are so awful), etc.

I see a huge difference between people who go online to discuss this case and those I talk to in the real world about it. There is a large streak of conspiratorial thinking online in the refusal to accept recognized authorities and the conviction of certain posters that they know better.



I've seen you say this many times but it doesn't matter if the evidence is more damning to one than the other. In cases where there is more than one accused, it they all planned and committed a murder, they're all guilty. One doesn't get off because s/he is a marginally less despicable person than the other co-accused.




Being a juror is our responsibility as citizens. No one is taking it lightly. There is nothing morally or ethically superior about having a hard time making decisions. There is no reason to think that taking a long time to decide leads to a better decision. You seem to be suggesting that people who have come to a conclusion are taking it more "lightly" than you are.

I don't think she is insinuating that others, or the jury, are taking it more lightly than her at all.

 

[Tealgrove]

No it wouldn't have been. AJ's call to crime stoppers would have eventually been traced back to him and he would have sung like a canary when they showed up at his front door. Failing that, as soon as a crime stoppers reward was offered, one of Millards minions would have eventually ratted him out.

The phones also caught them up. The numbers showed up on 3 different phones. The link was made without the tattoo. They showed their faces to both Igor, Sharlene Bosma and Wayne DeBoer. It was only a matter of time. I don't for one minute believe that they would have gotten away with it. BTW, the Bosma Army wasn't about to back down either. The pressure was huge.

What I do believe is that they got away with LB and felt invicible. They figured they could do whatever they wanted and they were wrong.

MOO

 

[andreww]

I'm sure for some, that's going to be a tough call. On this forum, many will say that any doubts are not reasonable, but several others see it differently. I can't imagine the members of the jury are really any different from us here discussing this so it stands to reason there might be some who have reasonable doubt when it comes to either MS or DM.

For me, the evidence taken as a whole is far more damning toward DM than MS (no surprise to anyone, I'm sure) and that's sort of unsettling because I could be completely wrong. No two ways about it, the responsibility of those jury members is massive. Deciding a man's fate is not to be taken lightly.

Seriously? I'm not sure what else they could get beyond a confession from Smich. His texts before and after, his fascination with guns, is rap lyrics and his willingness to cover up the crime are pretty clear indications of what happened.