Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[Georgeo]

Yes, the other charges are not to be factors in determining guilt here.

Before trial, I had spoken to people who have no idea the key details let alone DM and MS were charged in another murder. Or DM charged with his father's murder. Both coworkers and friends. All living and working in the GTA. Not everyone follows that closely.

Some know now because the trial is in the paper daily.

A guilty verdict cannot be handed down on emotion.


All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

jury members do not live in a bubble and for someone to suggest they were not aware of this case at all is really hard to swallow. Maybe age of people makes a difference whether they follow local news or not. This case stuck out due to the fact it was a 32 year old male that was missing. Usually it is female (child, teens or 20's) not a adult male. Victoria Stafford, Kristen French, Lesley Mahaffy, Linda Shaw, etc........ All females.

Jmo

 

[Claroon]

I think it has been established that DM's financial situation was not as it first appeared and that despite access to lines of credit/etc he still chose to steal many items. MS didn't need a truck. DM did. MS was not going to the Baja race......with his criminal record he wouldn't be crossing any borders...after hearing all of the testimony about thefts and DM's finances, your argument that DM had money for the truck doesn't hold water for me. MOO

I said he had the line of credit. IMO he was using up the money his dad borrowed for the new hangar. So that is the money he used--had access to. Somehow he walked out with $3,000 the day of his arrest and $6,000 at home for emergency. Somehow he had some money. That's all I meant. Him putting out the money makes him look like the leader, but that doesn't mean MS wasn't advising him with his 2 cents about what to buy.

 

[canadiangirl]

jury members do not live in a bubble and for someone to suggest they were not aware of this case at all is really hard to swallow. Maybe age of people makes a difference whether they follow local news or not. This case stuck out due to the fact it was a 32 year old male that was missing. Usually it is female (child, teens or 20's) not a adult male. Victoria Stafford, Kristen French, Lesley Mahaffy, Linda Shaw, etc........ All females.

Jmo

I said key details and that DM and MS were charged with another murder. I never suggested people were not aware of the case at all? Of course people were aware Tim was missing and then murdered. I never suggested they weren't. Please point out where I said such a thing. Thank you

ETA for example, did your friends know about SS or AM before trial? We here at websleuths sure did. So many things we sleuthed in the early days were mentioned that had never hit MSM.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Of course. And there is so much story here that it plays like a movie so people expect all of this is "foreshadowing" and the real story will eventually be revealed as on a TV show. In the past, people have been put away with much much less evidence and certainly no DNA testing at the time.

Yes, I agree. Gosh, how were trials ever conducted without DNA, cellphones and computers, lol?

I view the text evidence in this trial as an overwhelming bonus, for lack of a better word, because most trials don't have these type of "conversation" texts as evidence. IMO the texts totally support their actions of pre-planning, execution of their mission and destruction of most of the evidence.

 

[Georgeo]

Charged is one thing....CONVICTED is a whole other kettle of fish.

We can't go around, convicting people of one crime just because they have been CHARGED with another crime.

What if MS doesn't get convicted for the "other crime"? Just because he's charged doesn't mean he's guilty. Right now I have no idea what evidence there is of anyone's involvement in the other crime therefore I can't heap this knowledge of the charge in another crime onto the current trial.

I'm not defending anybody here, but the charges relate to a different matter and have to be kept separate. The Jurors, whether they know about it or not, cannot use that knowledge to convict here.

It's just the way it is.

i am not saying convict them based on other charges, but it is interesting to note, and shows their character to have been charged with other murders (not petty crime but murder).

 

[Claroon]

Which he?

DM was and he was in conversation with MS about it.

"Headed to waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week," was incoming message. This message was deleted and recovered. Apr 14, 2016
May 3, 2013. Outgoing messages from IPad. "Missions and more." And later "I thought it was fireworks tonight but it's not yet." Apr 14, 2016
Language from IPad includes lots of "yo's" and "'s." #bosma Apr 14, 2016"

 

[CJPRINCESS]

No. Which is a greater risk?
If says he gave it to isho, and winds up with life in prison anyways, because the gun adds no value at this point, I'm willing to bet he doesn't have an easy go of it.
JMO

rsbm

I think I'd shut my mouth and say "I don't remember". That dude is scary just by looks alone! His IG account has quite a few followers that don't look any friendlier. I'm sure he ain't to happy that he's involved already (maybe that's why DM got beat up 4 times in Jail?) I don't see these guys f-ing around and his buddies are clearly missing him.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I wondered if he meant "lies were told" and was referencing LE. DM mentioned in one of CN's letters that LE was intimidating Hagerman and Michalski by telling them they were being charged with stuff and this caused them to make statements.

You really have to read those letters well and not skim-read them. Alot of that crap was DM trying to get CN to tamper with witnesses. Example is one you stated above. He was trying to get CN to tell AM how he could change his testimony.

 

[marymcd]

I am not an expert but I am pretty sure that when a body is incinerated, all you are left with is the mineral content. Many pieces still hold the original form such as major bones. When people are urned their ashes go through a grinder to crush these pieces so they fit the urn but they are just lumps of mineral. There isn't any identifying information in mineral but possibly there would be in the form. If these ashes are dumped somewhere I doubt there would be any evidence especially after rain turns them to mush.

Right, but where I am getting hung up on is that the manufacturer said it would take about 3 hours to incinerate a 170 lb animal. If the large flare seen at about 1:44 am is the incinerator start up and the smaller flares seen at about 3:54 is it's shut down, then that is considerably less time than required and there should have been many more larger bones in similar heat damaged condition as the 2 that were found. If so and they have been discarded somewhere then they are not in the Bosma family's possession where they should rightfully be.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

The DM got beat up 4 times thing came from the wildly fictional letters. I doubt it was true.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

The DM got beat up 4 times thing came from the wildly fictional letters. I doubt it was true.

True but one can only hope it was the truth

Seriously though, that was one part of his letters that I actually thought was the truth. Why else wouldn't he want to go back to Gen-pop?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I think it has been established that DM's financial situation was not as it first appeared and that despite access to lines of credit/etc he still chose to steal many items. MS didn't need a truck. DM did. MS was not going to the Baja race......with his criminal record he wouldn't be crossing any borders...after hearing all of the testimony about thefts and DM's finances, your argument that DM had money for the truck doesn't hold water for me. MOO

But he had more than $22,000 to purchase the Eliminator/trailer, after having mentioned (paraphrasing) to MS that from now on they were just going to take whatever they wanted from the source.

If it was the 3500 that he really wanted, he could have bought one.

Garbage was never burned in the Eliminator ... Only human remains were.

From that alone it can be inferred that most probably the purpose for purchase of the Eliminator (which both MS and DM spoke about, set up, etc.) WAS to burn human remains.





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[canadiangirl]

But he had more than $22,000 to purchase the Eliminator/trailer, after having mentioned (paraphrasing) to MS that from now on they were just going to take whatever they wanted from the source.

If it was the 3500 that he really wanted, he could have bought one.

Garbage was never burned in the Eliminator ... Only human remains were.

From that alone it can be inferred that most probably the purchase of the Eliminator (which both MS and DM spoke about, set up, etc.) WAS to burn human remains.





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IMO the reason DM purchased the eliminator was because they tried to make a homemade one which failed and the incinerator itself was hard to come by. It's not like they could walk up and steal one. This one was shipped from Manitoba and manufactured in Georgia IIRC.

It has been said many times the 3500 was not a rare truck. So why buy one?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Right, but where I am getting hung up on is that the manufacturer said it would take about 3 hours to incinerate a 170 lb animal. If the large flare seen at about 1:44 am is the incinerator start up and the smaller flares seen at about 3:54 is it's shut down, then that is considerably less time than required and there should have been many more larger bones in similar heat damaged condition as the 2 that were found. If so and they have been discarded somewhere then they are not in the Bosma family's possession where they should rightfully be.

IIRC, there was at least one larger bone that was found, and it was included in a photo/photos of one of the exhibits, however, the photo/photos were removed from the exhibit prior to publication. Will try to find links for you and put them here.

ETA: Here is an article about it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ogist-says-bone-burned-at-high-heat-1.3453008

ETA: It is exhibit 51, and partway through the slide presentation this notice is seen:

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[MrsThreadgoode]

IMO the reason DM purchased the eliminator was because they tried to make a homemade one which failed and the incinerator itself was hard to come by. It's not like they could walk up and steal one. This one was shipped from Manitoba and manufactured in Georgia IIRC.

It has been said many times the 3500 was not a rare truck. So why buy one?

Why buy one? DM WANTED one, a diesel one, and he pointed that out frequently in his texts. However, not an average Joe who would scrimp and save to purchase something he wants, he has a previous history of stealing whatever he wanted ... He ENJOYED the stealing/planning missions. He enjoyed seeing what he could get away with. And close bro MS enjoyed going along with all these things too, IMO.

But why spend $22,000 dollars on an incinerator? What was the purpose of that? It had to have been a nefarious purpose because the ONLY thing that was ever burned in it was human remains. Never garbage or animal remains. Only human remains. So, IMO, because only human remains were ever burned in it, that must have been the reason for its purchase. We know the animal incineration story was a fabrication because of the testimony of DM's uncle, the vet.




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[canadiangirl]

Why buy one? DM WANTED one, a diesel one, and he pointed that out frequently in his texts. However, not an average Joe who would scrimp and save to purchase something he wants, he has a previous history of stealing whatever he wanted ... He ENJOYED the stealing/planning missions. He enjoyed seeing what he could get away with. And close bro MS enjoyed going along with all these things too, IMO.

But why spend $22,000 dollars on an incinerator? What was the purpose of that? It had to have been a nefarious purpose because the only thing that was ever burned in it was human remains. We know the animal inc. story was a fabrication because of the testimony of DM's uncle, the vet.




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What I was getting at is why buy a truck when he could steal one. Whereas he couldn't walk up and steal the incinerator

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Right, but where I am getting hung up on is that the manufacturer said it would take about 3 hours to incinerate a 170 lb animal. If the large flare seen at about 1:44 am is the incinerator start up and the smaller flares seen at about 3:54 is it's shut down, then that is considerably less time than required and there should have been many more larger bones in similar heat damaged condition as the 2 that were found. If so and they have been discarded somewhere then they are not in the Bosma family's possession where they should rightfully be.

I don't think they were finished at 3:54. It looked like someone was checking on it briefly by opening both doors. IMO, when they moved the incinerator into the hanger is when the incinerator was finished. Whether they shut it down or ran out of propane. If I remember correctly, that tank would have lasted 3 hours on full burn cycle, where on a ruduced cycle it would have gotten say, 5 hours.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

What I was getting at is why buy a truck when he could steal one. Whereas he couldn't walk up and steal the incinerator

Oh, it was a rhetorical question ... I am sorry for my misinterpretation.

Other than the fact that he couldn't steal the incinerator, what is your personal reasoning regarding its purchase by DM?


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[canadiangirl]

Oh, it was a rhetorical question ... I am sorry for my misinterpretation.

Other than the fact that he couldn't steal the incinerator, what is your personal reasoning regarding its purchase by DM?


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Rhetorical? Well you quoted my post, and my question was actually rhetorical lol then you asked a bunch of questions so figured you were looking for an answer.

In any case my personal reasoning is the same as most people. Not for garbage or pet cremation.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Rhetorical? Well you quoted my post, and my question was actually rhetorical lol then you asked a bunch of questions so figured you were looking for an answer.

In any case my personal reasoning is the same as most people. Not for garbage or pet cremation.

What do you think it was for then?


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