Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[canadiangirl]

It is somewhat in the realm of SS job to look up mechanical things for DM. MS has no such reason.

Which would make SS more likely the person to ask what it was used for. Livestock incinerator for a hanger? But instead we also have CN being asked and because she said no garbage was burned in it, it must be truth. She wasn't even there for day to day operations IIRC.

Again I don't disagree it wasn't purchased for nefarious reasons. I'm just not convinced other people were privvy to those reasons.

 

[canadiangirl]

Where is the copyright link to that quote?

From their website

http://www.tristarag.ca/?page_id=130

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Which would make SS more likely the person to ask what it was used for. Livestock incinerator for a hanger? But instead we also have CN being asked and because she said no garbage was burned in it, it must be truth. She wasn't even there for day to day operations IIRC.

Again I don't disagree it wasn't purchased for nefarious reasons. I'm just not convinced other people were privvy to those reasons.

SS said he was told it was for pet cremation with the uncle. And he told that to police before the trial.

 

[Inspector_North]

Both MS and SS testified that they were told the incinerator was to burn garbage. The company website for Tri Star Dairy describes their Eliminator products like this:


Tristar carries the Super Nova Brand of Incinerators.

We proudly serve our farmers, ranchers and growers in the food production and agricultural industry. We also provide the most up-to-date technology required by veterinarians, humane societies, hazardous and medical waste servicers along with landfill operators.

Call our friendly sales staff for pricing and availability.


Given the range of uses listed, can we really assume that SS or MS knew or intended a livestock incinerator? I'm not sure, but are some of these uses interchangeable within the same incineration device?

We also have MS's earlier texts about an incinerator that he found that offered the feature of recovering electrical power from the burn process, something that surely should strike somebody as relevant to regular use rather than the occasional murder cover up.

I have no idea what was in Millard's head when he initiated the build/get a generator process. It of course feels ominous, but I think you have to fill in a few blanks pretty arbitrarily to get to any degree of certainty about what other people thought it was for.

I also initially mixed their testimony up when they discussed incinerator(s). Not sure about SS, but IIRC, MS mentioned garbage burning for the homemade version, and pet cremation when discussing the Eliminator. The only one that mentioned anything other than animal cremation was CN and her statement that DM said it was to melt metal waste.
MOO

 

[ILoveDateline]

Which would make SS more likely the person to ask what it was used for. Livestock incinerator for a hanger? But instead we also have CN being asked and because she said no garbage was burned in it, it must be truth. She wasn't even there for day to day operations IIRC.

Again I don't disagree it wasn't purchased for nefarious reasons. I'm just not convinced other people were privvy to those reasons.

2 days off = hours of catch up but I am finally caught up. Anyhow...

SS seems a don't ask kind of guy, IMO, plus, DM seemed to have numerous nonsensical toys around. SS did show some interest in the incinerator, though. I've tried, but failed, to find the email from SS to the distributor after that purchase of the incinerator that said, something to the effect of, the afterburner is wicked. Not to mention he did the initial seasoning burn. Was it just another wicked toy of DMs?

The idea that the incinerator was used to burn off garbage from DMs many properties is ludicrous. How much can it possibly cost to hire a private garbage company (if the concern was too much garbage) and/or just burn it on the farm.

Ditto to the pet cremation business. If this was an idea I would plausibly entertain, it was gone as soon as the unit was made mobile. I can't see anyone, vet's or very sentimental pet owners, wanting a giant furnace on their property burning animals.

I can only reasonably entertain the idea that SS, MM and anyone else who saw the incinerator (I can't remember if the bookkeeper was asked about it - had she seem it?), thought it was a fancy toy for boys. JMO.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

bbm.....4-5 years ago I was stuck at a rail crossing as the 'Toyota train' tied up traffic through Cambridge. It was a long train and a very long wait so I amused myself with viewing the tags and graffiti sprayed on the double decker box cars as they passed by. Then Say10 appeared in white letters 3 feet high....it literally sent a chill through me that I have not forgotten and that was long be the Bosma incident !!!
.....sorry if I'm off topic just finishing a post I started in the a.m.

Hey guys, just wanted to try to shed some light here. I am a graffiti artist, and was particularly active around both south Mississauga and all around Oakville. "Say10" is not a recognizable name in the graffiti culture around here. Most of guys know each other and if you don't know another writer personally we know of all the active writers in the area due to frequenting the same areas/spots. MS was simply a very low level tagger (considering to a be "toy" by most graffiti writers). His tags were most likely ****** one colour spray tags that have either been cleaned off the surface already or gone over by a more experienced artist. Chances are the tag you saw on the train was not MS, as those Autorack cars travel from Mexico to Cambridge (although some would be in the same pool of cars that serve the Ford Plant in Oakville so it is possible).

 

[billandrew]

From Molly Hayes's tweets of Fraser cross-examining Smich:

• Fraser says "the reason he had the Eliminator was to burn a human being. And he did that on May 6."
• Smich says Millard had told him he had it because he was getting into the pet cremation business with his uncle.
• Fraser says Marlena testified Millard told her it was for farm animals (he didn't have). Told his gf Christina Noudga it was to burn metal.
• Pet cremation was the only reason Smich was given he says.
• Smich says he never met Millard's uncle but knew he was a vet.

Also from Molly Hayes's tweets:

• Next text. May 28, 2012. Fraser says the message relates to homemade incinerator Shane Schlatman attempted to build for Millard.
• Seeing a photo of that now. looks like a stack of green steel drums.
• It didn't work, Fraser says, and Millard eventually bought a $15k Eliminator.
• Smich says the homemade incinerator was being built for garbage.
• Back to text. May 28: Millard says "I'll reach around 9:30, we go do incinerator, cool?"
• Smich replies "yo Im down bro. I would eve say come sooner than that. Then we can chill and talk about other **** as well."
• Fraser asks where they were going to see the incinerator. Smich says he assumes at the hangar.

So yeah, Smich said the homemade incinerator was for burning garbage and the Eliminator was to be used for pet cremation (according to what he claims Millard told him).

 

[Abitcountry]

Hey guys, just wanted to try to shed some light here. I am a graffiti artist, and was particularly active around both south Mississauga and all around Oakville. "Say10" is not a recognizable name in the graffiti culture around here. Most of guys know each other and if you don't know another writer personally we know of all the active writers in the area due to frequenting the same areas/spots. MS was simply a very low level tagger (considering to a be "toy" by most graffiti writers). His tags were most likely ****** one colour spray tags that have either been cleaned off the surface already or gone over by a more experienced artist. Chances are the tag you saw on the train was not MS, as those Autorack cars travel from Mexico to Cambridge (although some would be in the same pool of cars that serve the Ford Plant in Oakville so it is possible).

Now that is not a pleasing thought.....that there are more characters out there using the same Say10 tag ....... :bang:

 

[Inspector_North]

So yeah, Smich said the homemade incinerator was for burning garbage and the Eliminator was to be used for pet cremation (according to what he claims Millard told him).

Thanks Bill for the tweets confirming the usage. BTW, SS did say that his home made version didn't work, and I question why. The rocket design is not new, and is used by farmers and rural folks successfully for burning garbage.

https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=11949

It's a big leap from homemade to a $23,000 custom unit. There are many design plans on the NET for units that work. Unless SS was referring to a certain type of waste that the Eliminator was designed to incinerate?

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Now that is not a pleasing thought.....that there are more characters out there using the same Say10 tag ....... :bang:

Sad to say, but MS and DM don't have the copywrite for evil.

MOO

 

[ILoveDateline]

There is a school of thought that one man alone could not have moved the body into the incinerator because of size and weight and the distance of the lift. But the truth is, we have all seen the luminol photos of the tail gate and bed of TB's truck and we know that at some point in time his body had been deposited there. If the tailgate were lowered and the truck backed into position against the trailer/incinerator the lift distance would have been reduced by 3-4 feet making it more feasible that one person could have done it alone.

-At one point Smich testified that the body was wrapped in a sheet at the farm.......but it would seem more likely that it would have been wrapped at the Bobcat dealership to contain blood transfer onto the clothes of the accused or onto the Yukon where as we now know, no transfer was ever detected.
It seems that this is a case that just keeps on giving and giving food for more thoughts at every level. IMO

BBM and snipped for space.

I'm not sure where I fall on the topic of DM lifting TB alone. I think it would be incredibly difficult to lift dead weight (sorry, I couldn't find a more tactful wording) up onto the trailer and then into the opening. I don't even know how easy it would be with two people to fit a body into the opening without some contortion. It doesn't seem that much eaisier to me to go through the effort of lifting a body onto the back of a truck and then onwards into the incinerator. It seems that would only happen after trying a failing at trying to move directly to the incinerator. I would think there would be a whole lot more than huffing and puffing from DM and a little bit more persuasion for MS's help.

About this sheet: why were there no questions about this? This could have clinched it for me on whether MS was telling the truth. What colour was it? where did it come from? JMO. ETA: and premeditation.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Now that is not a pleasing thought.....that there are more characters out there using the same Say10 tag ....... :bang:

Not to say the one you saw wasn't MS. Just IMO is very very unlikely.

Here is one I dug up off the internet - this was done on a refrigerated box car which almost never ever come through southern Ontario, so I can safely say it's not MS

.

 

[Miranda16]

February 13, 2012
380 was purchased but there was confusion on it being a 380 or a 9mm gun. This would explain why the two differnt ammo's were being discussed (April 15th, 2012)

LB is murdered in July 2012

September 12, 2012
DM bought 2nd 380

WM is murdered November 29th, 2012

IMO, LB was probably murdered with the first 380, WM was 2nd to be murdered with that same 380. I'm not 100% sure how suisides work with LE when by gunshot but you'd think they'd take the gun? WM had money and probably had connections, so LE probably didn't think twice about WM getting an illegal firearm.
Now lisho is being charged with selling DM that gun and DM charged with the murder of his father. That almost tells me that LE still had the gun and traced it back to lisho.

Then May 6th, 2013 TB was murdered with the second 380 that was purchased.

I just think with DM'S saving everything, more evidence of a third gun would have been presented. We've got two.

I agree that's one interpretation. Another interpretation was that in early 2012 DM got ammo for MS's gun but there was confusion whether it fit DM's (9mm) or MS's (.380). Then later a 2nd 380 was acquired.
MS's web search for 9mm ammo on May 18, 2013 supports this. I think Andrew made the observation that a loaded gun would sell better. So MS wanted more ammo for DM's gun to get a better price.
This theory also fits with MS telling BD that DM got the gun MS wanted (9mm - popular in rap songs)
Unfortunately the prosecution can't get into the number of guns because of the separate LB and WM cases
Whole post IMO

 

[Dutchman]

Just a thought on all the incinerator, possible after DM s father was cremated and all evidence of his crime was burned. He thought what a great way to eliminate a body and get rid of any evidence of crime. Maybe a light went off in his head to buy one of these things for future use. Jmo.

 

[mimimic]

SS's email to the supplier implies that he used the incinerator to test it out. Perhaps he tested out the incinerator without putting anything in it?



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ator-he-bought-for-his-boss-bosma-trial-hears

Road killÉ why does my keyboard always do that the É is a question mark. rrr it`s like i type with mitts on!!

 

[Inspector_North]

Just a thought on all the incinerator, possible after DM s father was cremated and all evidence of his crime was burned. He thought what a great way to eliminate a body and get rid of any evidence of crime. Maybe a light went off in his head to buy one of these things for future use. Jmo.

\

He purchased the unit June 2012, and WM died November 2012.

MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

I think what is confusing to me and is not completely clear in the tweets is the continuum between the homemade incinerator and its stated intention, and the commercial incinerator and it's stated intention. Essentially SS built the homemade one for garbage - everybody agrees on that claim - and when that failed it appears research shifted to a commercial one. When did the use as pet cremation come in to play? And was that use an additional use or an entirely different one? The texts where it appears MS is texting about the technology (the "thermal treatment" and energy recovery) come in early June kind of right between the homemade and the commercial one. I bet this would all be a lot clearer had we heard the whole narrative. Trial by Twitter is really tough at times and bad assumptions can easily take hold. There was a whole series of MS/DM incinerator texts that I thought were about the Eliminator that I see now the Crown meant (and timing indicates) was about the homemade one. Gah!

 

[billandrew]

Hmmm......

• Crown showing Schlatman a photo of what looks like a tower of green barrels in the hangar.
• Schlatman built this structure. Dell's jeep is seen in the background of the photo.
• This was supposed to be a homemade incinerator for burning off garbage. Believes Millard tried it but it didn't work.
• Schlatman says it didn't cost much to build. Already had 55 gallon drums. Maybe $100 went into it.
• Photo of this the jury is seeing was taken may 28, 2012 on Schlatman's phone.
• Now moving onto purchase of The Eliminator.
• Schlatman says Millard said he and his uncle had talked about going into pet cremation biz. That it was a big prob for vets in TO.
• Schlatman says he might have met Millard's uncle once, when Wayne Millard passed away.
• Orig he wanted Shane to build the machine. But says cost-wise they determined it would've been easier to just buy a unit.
• (Court has heard from Millard's uncle Robert Burns they never had such a conversation. Had no intention of going into biz with DM).

Both Schlatman and Smich testified that the homemade incinerator was for burning garbage and the Eliminator was pet cremation (that's what they say Millard told them).

 

[canadiangirl]

Road killÉ why does my keyboard always do that the É is a question mark. rrr it`s like i type with mitts on!!

Haha mine too. Go into you keyboard and change the language back lol

 

[billandrew]

Doesn't it seem like an inconsistency in Schlatman's testimony, though? At first he says the homemade incinerator is for burning off garbage. Then re: the Eliminator he brings up Millard going into the pet cremation business. Then he says Millard originally asked him to build the machine, which it seems he just said was for garbage. I guess it's not entirely clear!

ETA this tweet:

Re: discussion about pet cremation biz plans, [Schlatman] says that was about a week before the order was placed [for the Eliminator].