Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[Inspector_North]

I think what is confusing to me and is not completely clear in the tweets is the continuum between the homemade incinerator and its stated intention, and the commercial incinerator and it's stated intention. Essentially SS built the homemade one for garbage - everybody agrees on that claim - and when that failed it appears research shifted to a commercial one. When did the use as pet cremation come in to play? And was that use an additional use or an entirely different one? The texts where it appears MS is texting about the technology (the "thermal treatment" and energy recovery) come in early June kind of right between the homemade and the commercial one. I bet this would all be a lot clearer had we heard the whole narrative. Trial by Twitter is really tough at times and bad assumptions can easily take hold. There was a whole series of MS/DM incinerator texts that I thought were about the Eliminator that I see now the Crown meant (and timing indicates) was about the homemade one. Gah!

LOL. Now you see the problem with their explanations. You would think there would be one ounce of evidence that the Eliminator was to be used for animal cremation prior to delivery, but there is none. It sat for a year without DM even approaching RB with a business idea. It was not used for garbage according to the witnesses, or at least non had seen it used for burning garbage. SS couldn't even give the manufacturer a purpose when they were trying to properly size the unit.

IMO, I'm with Fraser, it was designed as a $23,000 killing machine.

MOO

 

[billandrew]

LOL. Now you see the problem with their explanations. You would think there would be one ounce of evidence that the Eliminator was to be used for animal cremation prior to delivery, but there is none. It sat for a year without DM even approaching RB with a business idea. It was not used for garbage according to the witnesses, or at least non had seen it used for burning garbage. SS couldn't even give the manufacturer a purpose when they were trying to properly size the unit.

IMO, I'm with Fraser, it was designed as a $23,000 killing machine.

MOO

And he kinda hid it away in the barn. Maybe that's where he was going to burn garbage. Maybe there were rules against storing a machine like that at the hangar. He had no problem storing everything else at the hangar! But obviously he wasn't going to be burning metal from the hangar business at the farm.

Regardless of what anyone else was told, I think Millard himself knew damn well what he bought it for, and it wasn't for garbage, metal, or pets.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Not to say the one you saw wasn't MS. Just IMO is very very unlikely.

Here is one I dug up off the internet - this was done on a refrigerated box car which almost never ever come through southern Ontario, so I can safely say it's not MS

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That's nothing like the pic CN sent to DM of the Say10 tag on a underpass in high park. DM confirmed it was MS tag. It was very rudimentary. I'm now on my mobile and posting links is difficult, or I would post the pic. Maybe you could verify it as ametuer .

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

And he kinda hid it away in the barn. Maybe that's where he was going to burn garbage. Maybe there were rules against storing a machine like that at the hangar. He had no problem storing everything else at the hangar! But obviously he wasn't going to be burning metal from the hangar business at the farm.

Regardless of what anyone else was told, I think Millard himself knew damn well what he bought it for, and it wasn't for garbage, metal, or pets.

I'll go one step further. MS knew damn well what it was for.

It was part of their empire building scheme along with
- their search and destroy custom van
- their PPK
- their Ghost plates
- their usage of burner phones
- their new take if from the source attitude

And AM sent this very telling text the morning of the 7th. He may not of known how telling, but IMO very accurate except it was their last.

"Michalski texts Millard: "I told her you guys were fine and it's not the first time this happened and won't be the last.""

MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

And he kinda hid it away in the barn. Maybe that's where he was going to burn garbage. Maybe there were rules against storing a machine like that at the hangar. He had no problem storing everything else at the hangar! But obviously he wasn't going to be burning metal from the hangar business at the farm.

Regardless of what anyone else was told, I think Millard himself knew damn well what he bought it for, and it wasn't for garbage, metal, or pets.

The continuum between the two devices and implied uses is very confusing to me. As with so many things in this case it feels like there are about a dozen permutations of possible truths. Did it start as a legitimate garbage burning initiative? Was that rocket ship really meant to burn garbage from Millard's buildings? I always thought that must mean the materials that are produced during renovations rather than banana peels and old socks. Those kind of materials might need some chopping as MS said, to fit in the rocket. Would people? Ugh...I don't know, but probably not. How then do we get from A to B a few weeks later? Garbage to pet incineration...what and where was the transition? I know many feel that there was no transition, just new justifications, but it's still shaky to me. I'm not sure what to think the evidence suggests most clearly.

 

[brightii]

I'm glad I checked in here to discover that closing addresses begin tomorrow instead of Wednesday. DM's closing by Pillay should be quite interesting.

The break I took from following this case afforded me some time and space away that resulted in a fresher perspective. I was recalling how the judge instructed the jury at the beginning of the trial (going only on memory - no link) when he cautioned them not to investigate the crime but to focus only on the facts and testimony and evidence presented. What great advice.

I think the jury will weigh all the evidence for what makes most sense, who seems credible or not as witnesses, etc. and as such their duty will be a much simpler task than it may appear. They are not amateur sleuths. They have now heard and seen all the pertinent details of the case, and other crimes (LB and WM) will not complicate their deliberations. I think that once the closing statements are in and the judge makes his charge to the jury, there is really nothing left to speculate on. It will be up to the jury to decide the fates of DM and MS.

The closing statements will be a great way to see how each of the three parties spin their version of the truth. I hope the Crown has a strong finish because I believe both accused are guilty, but I also feel somewhat detached about the outcome as I can't control it and therefore whatever the outcome, I'm prepared to accept it and move on. It's sad that TB's family doesn't have the luxury of that kind of detachment. For them, the outcome is ultra personal and important and for their sakes I hope the kind of justice they're seeking for TB will be crystal clear when the verdicts are read.

All MOO.

 

[JuneBug67]

I'm going to make two posts in a row, focused just on the homemade incinerator that assumes SS built it for garbage but takes two different approaches to what DM/MS intended. I'd love it if people would add a Thanks to the version that they agree with just kind of as an informal poll as to how people are thinking. I'm genuinely super confused on this whole critical issue of the incinerators.

Scenario 1

As the Crown suggests, DM commissioned a homemade incinerator from Shane Schlatman with the intention that it would serve as a piece of his plan to murder and incinerate a person. MS was privy to this plan at this point and a full participant. They travelled to the hangar in May to assess or move or work with the tall, rocket shaped incinerator with this purpose in mind. MS's interest in the project was as a co-conspirator.

Please thank if you agree.

 

[JuneBug67]

Scenario 2

Despite what the Crown asserts, DM commissioned a homemade incinerator from Shane Schlatman with the intention that it would be used to burn materials produced from work at his buildings. MS understood this to be the use as well and they travelled to the hangar in May to assess or move or work with the tall, rocket shaped incinerator with this purpose in mind. MS's interest in the project was as a friend and helper tagging along to check out a gadget.

Please thank if you agree.

 

[hellkat2]

Sure except if he took his hands out of his pockets to pet the dog, which I don't recall if that was an actual fact or not but it was brought up.

You can hide a gun under your shirt in the waistband of your jeans easy enough. A bulky hoodie doesn't prove anything IMO.

All I see is speculation.

My memory is that MS said in his cross examination he thought there was a dog there that he pet. Then he said if there was a dog there i would have petted it. That whole testimony sounded wierd to me. Thinking why is MS mentioning he pet the dog? Why is he saying that??? Somebody can check the transcript if it is around. But MS offered that he pet the dog. Why????? You would think he would be clear about that....Isn't the dog in question a great dane like in the pictures???

 

[Claroon]

What?

You're quoting off a website and I'm asking for the link.

 

[hellkat2]

Question, was Smich invited to the actual barbecue?

I thought that someone...maybe andrew m said that Smich was not included in the parties he and DM had ......was not part of that group re the pool parties and bbq and drinking etc.

 

[JuneBug67]

You're quoting off a website and I'm asking for the link.

Oh..apologies. The copyright thing confused me. Somebody linked it a couple of posts down, but it's less important now since it's been determined that SS did indeed know he was searching for a 'pet crematory' at the time. I was working under the wrong belief that he might still think it was exclusively for garbage at that time.

 

[hellkat2]

A couple of thoughts on the gun:
- Do we know how many total guns were acquired? Sounds like at least two in 2012, but one was presumably confiscated by LE after WM was found. It also sounds as if at least one gun was acquired for DM and one for MS (DM paying for all). If (one of) DM's gun(s) were used on WM, and there were 2 total, then the 'MS weapon' was used against TB. This fits BD's testimony that it was MS's gun. I still wonder if there were still 2 guns remaining at the time of the TB murder. Then MS would have gotten rid of both and that's why he requires amnesia about the guns. Also, why wouldn't DM replace the gun lost to LE after his father's death (otherwise only MS has a gun, unless DM took it back from MS at that point)
- If DM was trying to frame MS by tricking him into taking the gun from MH, how could he ensure that MS kept the gun (in MS's one gun scenario)? If I'm a scheming DM, how could I ensure that MS was actually caught with it? He couldn't know that MS would open the toolbox in front of someone, or that he would talk about the gun. He'd also have to assume that MS would try to get rid of it.

I assumed that DM's father because it was a "suicide" would have been using a gun that he owned himself. I don't know that DM would be showing him guns he purchased.

 

[hellkat2]

No single drop? Is that why 2 were found in the backseat of the Ram?

Your matter of fact post of what happened is scary to me.

What do you mean by "No single drop?" What are you referring to? I know they found a casing in the back seat? Did they find another?

 

[Abitcountry]

Not to say the one you saw wasn't MS. Just IMO is very very unlikely.

Here is one I dug up off the internet - this was done on a refrigerated box car which almost never ever come through southern Ontario, so I can safely say it's not

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The one that you have posted is artistic...attention to detail, well executed font....even has a sense of humour with the Y being turned into a trident. The one I saw was not art....it was dashed off quicky....white paint, singles forming letters and numerals...no discernible font or attempt at one....capital S was done with 5 separate,slightly convex lines, caps on the AY......had an angry vibe to it.
I live in the country and rarely see tags or any other graffitii.....I happened to see SAY10 on a train one day and years later .....wouldn't you know it, here I am following a trial where one of the accused liked to spray paint his tag SAY10 all over creation. I have seen a fair bit of serendipity in my life but this one is the strangest :google:

 

[canadiangirl]

What do you mean by "No single drop?" What are you referring to? I know they found a casing in the back seat? Did they find another?

I was responding to someone who again posted a "fact" that not one single drop of blood was found in the backseat of TB truck, when in fact there was blood in the backseat area.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ely-tim-bosmas-expert-tells-murder-trial.html

 

[brightii]

This is my take on the incinerator. If it was truly ever innocently and legitimately intended for burning garbage or pets, would it be reasonable to imagine that within barely a few minutes after an "accidental" killing of TB in his own truck, that a very shocked DM and/or MS would jump immediately to the perfect conclusion that they could simply incinerate TB in the Eliminator at the farm or the hangar? Not a chance in a million years, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Dutchman]

\

He purchased the unit June 2012, and WM died November 2012.

MOO

There goes that theory. Lol

 

[hellkat2]

Other trials should not be a factor in this one.

Yes you are correct. I have formulated my opinions on the evidence related to this trial. When I say that DM has more trials ahead and that influences me strongly to follow these cases further. It is too bad that they could not have done the trial in the chronological order of the murders that they allegedly are charged with doing.

 

[Arnie M]

That's nothing like the pic CN sent to DM of the Say10 tag on a underpass in high park. DM confirmed it was MS tag. It was very rudimentary. I'm now on my mobile and posting links is difficult, or I would post the pic. Maybe you could verify it as ametuer .

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

I think that was the point Crimeinthe6ix was trying to make .... the picture he posted was much more artistic than the MS ones .... which makes it highly unlikely MS did it.

For comparison here is an MS example

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