Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[CJPRINCESS]

true, but a few things i've read say u can at least get the vehicle out of park....but we don't know what their plan or what MS says their original plan was supposed to be. Doesn't matter really I guess at this point.

Lol, I still don't think they'd figure it out. I'm sure we would have seen computer research on how to do so, but we didn't. It's a possibility they knew how from the red Ram. I'm curious to see the Bill of Sale on that truck.

 

[Claroon]

You know...I keep thinking about this incinerator. I think the vast majority of us do not believe it was intended to be used in the way DM's lawyers presented it (animal incineration business.) I don't think even DM is daft enough to believe that a homemade incinerator put together by SS would be passable for use in a veterinarian business model either. So that leaves us with the true intent of his purchase being to dispose of bodies. We know poor Tim met that fate and the hunch many have is that LB may have met the same. Think about this...had DM and MS gotten away with this one, how many more would have followed? Who amongst us are the lucky ones that didn't meet this fate as a result of them being caught? Is there a boat owner out there that may have met the same fate? What did DM want next? Another truck? Trailer? Once they proved to themselves that the disposal plan was infallible...who knows if they would have stopped. MOO and general ramblings for a Thursday morning.

One thing you haven't mentioned which I think about is: what had occurred prior to this hair-brained evil idea that made him see a need for an incinerator? Was it merely something he saw in a movie or had he already had problems disposing of bodies?

Or, perhaps, when he and MS started planning and saw they would need to kill the driver to get the key (because punching him wouldn't be enough, duh), then they said, what will we do with the body? We need to do this with no mistakes.

 

[andreww]

I don't see it because the key points for example are, MS searched for a truck on auto trader. So did AM and he was aware. They are saying MS searched for incinerator. SS built one for DM. SS has texts with DM about if the generator is at the farm prior to this. MS isn't the only one who was aware DM had a gun IIRC. They took pictures with it. I have seen reasonable doubt right now for first degree. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything otherwise. I'm just not there with MS.

Not sure what you ar getting at here? Were other people aware of what was going to happen? Maybe (probably IMO). Did anybody besides Smich actually accompany Millard? Absolutely not. You cannot get around the fact that Smich knew exactly what was going to happen, his BBQ, fireworks and sausage texts are proof of that. Millard said he was going to steal either the "nice guy" or the "a$$hole's" truck. Well IT still has his truck so Smich must have known that this was going to happen that night. Did all there planning include burglary tools like a slim jim to unlock the truck? Did they enquire about an alarm system on the vehicle? No, because they were always going to just drive that truck away. There is nothing in any of the planning to suggest anything different. Yet there is plenty of evidence that both Smich and Millard discussed preparing the BBQ at the farm. What do you think that means? MM begs Smich not to go on this particular "mission", why? Nearly all the witnesses lied to cover their own asses but the story is still quite clear if you read between the lines.

 

[Mscree]

I don't see it because the key points for example are, MS searched for a truck on auto trader. So did AM and he was aware. They are saying MS searched for incinerator. SS built one for DM. SS has texts with DM about if the generator is at the farm prior to this. MS isn't the only one who was aware DM had a gun IIRC. They took pictures with it. I have seen reasonable doubt right now for first degree. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything otherwise. I'm just not there with MS.

Wouldn't searching for a truck on autotrader show preplanning?

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Seems very likely they could have gotten away with it if Igor wasnt so intimidating to them and they had gone through with it with him.

And would he have garnered the same reaction by the general population as Tim did? Tim's Army really blasted the information out to the world and it got people thinking about the case. People really connected with the family man who was kidnapped(then killed) for a truck. Rightfully or wrongfully, Igor may not have drawn as much attention and the anonymity of the bigger city could have provided some additional cover. They may very well have gotten away with it. MOO

 

[hellkat2]

I have no problem at all with criticizing recognized authorities but that criticism should be based on facts and evidence not feelings and preconceived belief systems.

Well what people "should do" and what they actually "do" are two different things. Placing too much emphasis on what people should do instead of focusing on what they are actually doing is counter productive most of the time. This is a discussion forum so each person's contributions have value despite how they are expressing and there is room for all. Overvalued belief systems no matter what get in the way of true sharing of ideas and in problem/solution related matters. The focus goes to what the individual thinks should be said or should be happening instead of what is actually being said or happening. But I digress again and this is unrelated to the trial and is not permitted so it will likely disappear.

 

[canadiangirl]

Sorry I disagree. Ms had nothing to do with the day to day operations. It's not like ss and ms built the homemade thing. So why is he doing research? why is he going to give it a test run? You also said Am helped search for a truck, not that he was aware. The communication between them. I see first degree. I trust the jury will as well. Smich had more time to conviebntly get rid of things

IIRC MS was working in the hanger with MM as well.
AM testified DM showed him listings on kijiji. I guess that could mean they were printed off but that's not how I took the statement. Matter of perception I suppose.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...sma-vanished-roommate-tells-murder-trial.html

Then there's this
Michalski had helped him search for trucks online as far back as November 2012.

 

[canadiangirl]

Wouldn't searching for a truck on autotrader show preplanning?

To steal a truck? Sure. To kill a man? No

 

[Claroon]

There is also the fact that these discussion sites have people joining at any point in time, not being aware of previous evidence as well as people who only read the occasional page making up a theory based on limited information. People seem to think it's okay to form your own definition of terms such as reasonable. I hope there is a skill testing question to potential jurors such as "what is reason". I can't figure out why we need amateur, part-time judges deciding people's fate?

Just putting my 2 cents in -- I don't put myself on this forum on par with being a jury member. To me it is about the intrigue, the story, the sleuthing, and if the law teams are helped by our conversation, even better. I am okay with being wrong about something and I find speculating challenging to my brain.Someone point me to the mission statement of this web site, lest I'm misunderstanding my use of it. As for the real jury, they are put through careful selection. Each lawyer gets their input like an NHL draft. (okay I know I'm probably not completely right about that, but since I had the first paper come to me for jury duty, I did a bit of research to know what I might be in for should I be called for stage 2).

 

[Claroon]

Maybe he would have, i don't thik SS would have though!

Speaking of SS, I saw a Youtube video about how to build your own silencer. I wonder if DM asked SS to build him one? **Speculating only**

 

[NashBridges2]

I find it interesting that so many believe that the friends of DM & MS lied to police and/or lied on the stand (and I think many of them did as well), but as soon as MS said he or she lied or wasn't being honest, it's a 180 and he's the liar. Granted, I think he's lying too about certain things but it's just interesting how that works out.

I think they are ALL liars, which is why I believe the jury will discount most of that and stick to making their choice by the actual evidence and not by testimony from the posse.

 

[Claroon]

And we know DM didn't just steal things he needed, just anything would do. Nobody would have been safe!
When I read the plot of that Fargo inspiration where the guy disposes of his stewardess wife in a wood chipper, I think of Maddy Burns. Why did WM allow the purchase of a $15000 incinerator?
She had better hope DM stays in jail for the rest of her life because I can't see another source of income for him.
I can't wait to hear the REAL purpose of that truck MS alluded to.

bold by me (bbm)
CN has a quote on her instagram "Take what gives you pleasure, give what brings you joy." I wonder if that was their motto?

 

[Mscree]

IIRC MS was working in the hanger with MM as well.
AM testified DM showed him listings on kijiji. I guess that could mean they were printed off but that's not how I took the statement. Matter of perception I suppose.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...sma-vanished-roommate-tells-murder-trial.html

Then there's this
Michalski had helped him search for trucks online as far back as November 2012.

Still it was said to be used for two things garbage disposal or pet cremation whatever lie you choose to believe however they did odd jobs like painting and clean up nothing to do with garbage removal. Not sure why it was stored in the barn in kept secret from people coming to the hanger if it was used for garbage? Regardless am wasn't involved in this crime it was the two of them they new the plan otherwise why look for the generator? Why the change of vehicles? They knew what they were up to. Both of them the gun wasn't a photo prop it was meant to be used that's why they had bullets

 

[Mscree]

To steal a truck? Sure. To kill a man? No

Not to steal a truck or it would not take that long

 

[hellkat2]

One thing you haven't mentioned which I think about is: what had occurred prior to this hair-brained evil idea that made him see a need for an incinerator? Was it merely something he saw in a movie or had he already had problems disposing of bodies?

Or, perhaps, when he and MS started planning and saw they would need to kill the driver to get the key (because punching him wouldn't be enough, duh), then they said, what will we do with the body? We need to do this with no mistakes.

I don't believe we could speak freely on that at this time do you?

 

[mozzagirl]

Just had a thought about a line of questioning Fraser had yesterday.

He was asking MS about if Tim was worried or realizing something was "off" about the test drive. I guess if they could get MS to say that Tim was uncomfortable yet he was given no chance to leave the truck, that might show his forcible confinement?

MOO.

 

[hellkat2]

Agreed the whole new image was put together by his lawyer. He lied a good amount and likely told some half truths. He was quick to dish the blame on everyone. Any evidence that was given to show his full intentions he lost his memory or said witnesses were wrong (7 - 8 witnesses. I can understand one witness, but this many aren't wrong.) He forget some of the most crucial info because he was scared and confused. Yet any small info that could put him in a better light he somehow remembered. I don't believe very much of his testimony was credible (maybe 10%.) The rest was around selective memory and to fit what the disclosure he was given. He is just your typical liar. Tell half truths, blame others for everything, quickly accuse everyone else of lying and attempt to play the poor me victim card. All the evidence has suggested the opposite that he was just as willing to do this as Millard. The only reason he has shown any reason for change is he got caught.

You never get caught the first time for anything.

 

[Mscree]

Speaking of SS, I saw a Youtube video about how to build your own silencer. I wonder if DM asked SS to build him one? **Speculating only**

Could they have got one from mr squishy?

 

[Claroon]

Have the specific modifications been revealed? How was it to be used?

The tweet by AC said, "Shane's starting on the white van for search and capture missions."

I wondered when MS blurted out that DM had plans to use the truck for other things, which he didn't know if he was allowed to mention in court, if the truck would also be a kidnapping vehicle. IMO

 

[NashBridges2]

What I'm trying to say is you can disregard any testimony you feel is unreliable. That leaves you with the people who had no reason to lie like IT, SB and RB who place them at the scene and the text messages that show planning.

Then you can consider MM and BD who have no connection or don't like DM and judge whether you believe them or not.

This is my issue as well, I don't think people realize that you can disregard or ignore witnesses testimony if you have doubts about their honesty. It seems like everyone is so black and white. Either Smich is a liar or he's telling the truth. It's not that way and the judge will explain that. They willbe told they can accept part, all or NONE of the witness testimony to make their decision. For me, if I believe Smich is laying about knowing where the gun is, lying about knowing the gun was in the toolbox, lying about saying TB was gone, gone, gone, then I'd likely have a hard time believing much he did say. So I'd look at someone not involved, like MM, she has no reason to lie. If she says they were celebrating and happy with the mission, I'd believe her. She doesn't have a dog in this fight.