Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

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Miranda16 said:
i said that this doesn't clinch his guilt but does look bad. MS was criminal partner to someone who he knew had an illegal weapon. If you were in this situation but had no intention of physically harming anyone (or being a party to it), then this knowledge should concern you. Why would he as a criminal have an illegal weapon if there was no willingness or plan to use it? By continuing to plan and go on missions with this man, MS was exposing himself to possible violence. That's what we can say about the gun ownership alone.


Then add in all the rest of the evidence. So MS was very naive about the gun? Maybe, but he's naive about the gun and he researched incinerators and sent other suspicious texts and continued to initiate first contact with DM after the murder (making him look like a full partner) and wanting to meet Isho and googling ammo after the murder and developing selective amnesia and contradicting other witnesses and ... All those things strung together are very difficult to explain innocently IMO.
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Ms did testify about the gun and said that "There were other reasons for having a gun". He was not questioned further on this by any attorney. I understood it to mean that he claimed to own a gun for his own protection as he was heavy into illegal activities.
I also noticed that Isho was doing DM a favour by giving him the gun at cost and not making a penny. Wondering why a casual acquaintance would go out of his way to do such a favour. IMO DM & Isho were partners in a much bigger scale then anybody has testified to
 
canadiangirl said:
I'm not sure how else it is to be taken. When you say below... (bbm)



I suppose it's a misinterpretation. It wouldn't be the first time, however we are discussing why I feel there is a lack of evidence to support a M1 charge for MS so, I'm not sure how else it is to be taken. MOO
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Further to all my other responses, the particular post that you responded to was actually my response to an Inspector North post, it wasn't directed at you specifically at all.


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sillybilly said:
Criminal Code of Canada is very specific wrt "(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);" so not any other vehicle:

from:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-52.html#docCont
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It may say aircraft but murder while hijacking of a car gets first degree as well and there is evidence re cases in ontario re this. I would say that Tim Bosma shot dead in his own truck by one of the two individuals is also forcible confinement and constitutes first degree murder. Here is an article. There are others. Google it yourself if you don't believe it.
https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/11/04/mullings_guilty_in_carjacking_murder.html
 
DMB said:
Ms did testify about the gun and said that "There were other reasons for having a gun". He was not questioned further on this by any attorney. I understood it to mean that he claimed to own a gun for his own protection as he was heavy into illegal activities.
I also noticed that Isho was doing DM a favour by giving him the gun at cost and not making a penny. Wondering why a casual acquaintance would go out of his way to do such a favour. IMO DM & Isho were partners in a much bigger scale then anybody has testified to
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BBM

I think that this is a good possibility ... Jumping off from what you said, considering DM's assertions (paraphrasing) that he needed to make $100,000 a month, that they DM/MS were going to take anything they wanted from the source, combined with the investment of $23,000 for a livestock incinerator that had no legitimate purpose, as well as acres of land in a rural area, it is possible that DM, MS and Isho might have been considering a possible lucrative enterprise of disappearing people. I know that this is wild speculation on my part, but perhaps in DM's twisted game and mission filled head there might have been a seed of that.

MOO



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Errrr said:
Wasn't it MS who put DM in touch with an illegal gun dealer in the first place despite the fact that there was nothing to prevent DM from buying his own gun legally. I am pretty sure a guy like MS know what illegal guns are used for...and it isn't target practice.
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Oh but according to MS, Lisho was a drug dealer :laughing:
 
MrsThreadgoode said:
BBM

I think that this is a good possibility ... Jumping off from what you said, considering DM's assertions (paraphrasing) that he needed to make $100,000 a month, that they DM/MS were going to take anything they wanted from the source, combined with the investment of $23,000 for a livestock incinerator that had no legitimate purpose, as well as acres of land in a rural area, it is possible that DM, MS and Isho might have been considering a possible lucrative enterprise of disappearing people. I know that this is wild speculation on my part, but perhaps in DM's twisted game and mission filled head there might have been a seed of that.

MOO



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Click to expand...
Don't forget the white van SS was modifying for search and capture missions.
 
hellkat2 said:
It may be specific but hijacking of a car gets first degree murder. There are cases that this has happened in Ontario Canada. I will find. I have posted this already but cannot find it. I would say that Tim Bosma shot dead in his own truck by one of the two individuals is forcible confinement. And it says forcible confinement is First Degree. But I will find car jacking article and post it. Have to sign off for now.
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AFAIK, forcible confinement has not been brought forward in this trial. And an unplanned murder during a robbery is not 1st degree.

Robbery is no longer on that list, said Steve Orr, a defence lawyer with Gittens and Associates.

He explained that the Supreme Court of Canada repealed that provision of the code in the early 1990s.

"It's no longer automatically first-degree murder if it is committed in the course of an indictable offence," said Orr, adding that it is a "principle fundamental of justice" that a conviction for murder cannot rest on anything less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt of the "subjective foresight of death."
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/murder-brandon-phillips-larry-wellman-1.3274163
 
CJPRINCESS said:
Oh but according to MS, Lisho was a drug dealer :laughing:
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MS knew Isho from highschool and introduced DM to him after they hooked up when DM was buying pot from MS. There is no evidence that MS was into anything heavier then petty pot dealing prior to DM. DM & Isho's dealing were much bigger as is indicated in the deal for the gun and large amounts of drugs in his possession. DM seems to be the middleman between Moose & Isho???
 
canadiangirl said:
Maybe one day it will. Maybe after the LB trial. Who knows. I'm looking at this trial though. Not information I'm not privy to as of yet.

As I said I don't know when the poll was started, nor does it matter to me or make a difference. The results were posted June 3. That's about all I know about it.

You state you're a good judge of people. Does this include people you've never met?

As for myself, I'm not ignoring anything, but it is really ironic how if you don't agree with everyone else, those of us must be not seeing the whole picture or ignoring something. If that's the case I guess I would have to ignore all the groupies as well because all of their testimony had unbelievable parts IMO. I don't think one person told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth out of the group of them.

And if I recall the judge did point out you can believe all, part or none of a witness testimony. It's not so black and white as, well the person lied about one part, so they lied about everything. Not even close IMO.
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I appreciate your doubt and your fairness.
I felt the same as you until I read post # 14 of this thread from NashBridges2.

His Post,
You looked at it, as a whole, and that's exactly what the crown asked the jury to do. Sure, every piece of evidence against both of them could have an explanation. But when there's so much that needs to be explained, it's time to stop and think, okay, is this reasonable?
The evidence for pre-med murder in this case is not as strong as the evidence in the truck theft. You're right. But when you look at it, as a whole, it all fits. Nobody acts that way, celebrates, cleans up, destroys evidence and continues to be BFF with a man who just surprised you and kills someone. We aren't wired that way. Had MS not known it was going to happen, MM would have noticed he wasn't sleeping, he was distracted, he wasn't eating, a huge change in his demeanour. Nobody witnesses an unplanned murder and just walks away, unscathed.

I feel,
They were both in it Before During and After.

In all good conscience I feel they are both guilty as charged.
mo
 
hellkat2 said:
This article is not clear to me.
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This is stated in the OP's posted article:


First-degree no longer automatic if death occurs during a robbery

By Terry Roberts, CBC News Posted: Oct 19, 2015 6:27 AM NT Last Updated: Oct 19, 2015 9:36 AM NT


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MrsThreadgoode said:
This is stated in the OP's posed article:


First-degree no longer automatic if death occurs during a robbery

By Terry Roberts, CBC News Posted: Oct 19, 2015 6:27 AM NT Last Updated: Oct 19, 2015 9:36 AM NT


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Click to expand...

Someone posted a link about a guy that robbed a store out East. I'd repost but I forget the guys name.
He had a loaded gun to just rob a store but ended up shooting a customer. He didn't plan for that customer to be in the store but is being charged for 1st degree murder.
 
Inspector_North said:
Thanks for the response. I know MS was there that night and lack of DNA does not let him off the hook. Even if he was in the other vehicle, this was a premeditated mission that resulted in TB being shot. And both knew the gun existed, and it didn't exist for just photo ops.

MOO
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This won't be a popular post, but...

'This was a premeditated mission' - I understood there to be evidence that there was a mission planned for the two men to steal a truck as has been testified to by a few witnesses, and by DM trying to get a witness to change what he heard DM say ahead of time in regard to stealing a truck at that time. For me personally, I am also satisfied that there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that DM (and possibly CN) knew that a murder was in the plan, because of DM's advance planning to have first the car-hauler trailer available, and then also the Yukon for towing the incinerator, as well as asking his employee in advance about the location of the generator for the incinerator. What evidence is being relied upon which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that MS knew that the mission also included murdering the truck owner?

'The mission ended with TB being dead' - This is a fact, but what evidence is being relied upon which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that killing TB was part of the plan, and what evidence is being relied upon which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that MS knew this part of the plan?

'Both knew the gun existed, and it didn't exist for just photo ops' - What evidence is being relied upon which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that both knowing the gun existed means the same thing as both knowing that it was brought along on that evening and further, that it was brought along for the purpose of carrying out a plan to kill a man that night? What proves beyond a reasonable doubt that MS knew it was present that night before the murder, and that MS also knew that it had been planned to use it to murder a man on this occasion?
 
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