Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #18

[grimmyman]

If he was "prepared to kill", then is that not a type of premeditation?
Clean up ill prepared could have been because he intended to do the killing at his farm property, not in the truck.

no, not the same thing. Think broader. He migth mentally be ready and prepared to kill, say if he had to, if he got caught, whatever. But planning to kills a specific target is something more. Being ill prepared for clean up litterally means he wasnt set up. He didn't plan it that night, it wasnt suppsoed to happen. And no, it wouldnt have worked at the farm property, they towed it to the hangar to run it there. Power? Fuel? whatever reason it was.

Sorry, I wont ignore hard evidence which supports a theory, or try and explain it away so it suits what I would want a verdict to be.

 

[grimmyman]

Exactly. They didn't run and hide. They carried on, like business as usual. Executed perfectly.

Actually, on the contrary, they went into panick mode. They went hiding stuff, taking preparations, they were NOT ready.

 

[grimmyman]

deleted

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

A lawyer kindly sent me to a link of a Supreme Court case regarding forcible confinement and 1st DM. Here is the link:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2008/2008scc59/2008scc59.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[canadiangirl]

Adrian Humphreys answered a tweet yesterday from a poster in response to forcible confinement not being a path to first degree.

Adrian Humphreys (@AD_Humphreys) tweeted at 9:34 AM on Sat, Jun 11, 2016:
@xxxxxxx If a judge doesn't see evidence of an essential element of a charge, he can close that option for a jury

I know people were asking and hoping for an explanation. Here's one from MSM.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Actually, on the contrary, they went into panick mode. They went hiding stuff, taking preparations, they were NOT ready.

Do I understand you correctly that you are saying that DM and MS went into panic mode immediately following the murder?

Also, who is to say that THEY didn't initially consider "their plan" to be well thought out? It might not have been a good plan when viewed through others' eyes, but perhaps to them it was a good plan. Good plan or not, why does it matter if they were ready or not ready?


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[Sillybilly]

Adrian Humphreys answered a tweet yesterday from a poster in response to forcible confinement not being a path to first degree.

Adrian Humphreys (@AD_Humphreys) tweeted at 9:34 AM on Sat, Jun 11, 2016:
@xxxxxxx If a judge doesn't see evidence of an essential element of a charge, he can close that option for a jury

I know people were asking and hoping for an explanation. Here's one from MSM.

Right ... with DM not testifying and MS testifying but claiming he wasn't there, there would be no evidence from the time Tim entered the vehicle until his death to support that essential element.

 

[Claroon]

Do I understand you correctly that you are saying that DM and MS went into panic mode immediately following the murder?

Also, who is to say that THEY didn't initially consider "their plan" to be well thought out? It might not have been a good plan when viewed through others' eyes, but perhaps to them it was a good plan. Good plan or not, why does it matter if they were ready or not ready?


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I agree, they planned as well as their uneducated minds would let them. They thought they were above the law. They'd gotten away with so much already, they thought this would be easy. I think they didn't move the incinerator earlier because it would have aroused suspicions with his workers. The plan was to fetch it at night when all workers would be gone.

 

[canadiangirl]

I agree, they planned as well as their uneducated minds would let them. They thought they were above the law. They'd gotten away with so much already, they thought this would be easy. I think they didn't move the incinerator earlier because it would have aroused suspicions with his workers. The plan was to fetch it at night when all workers would be gone.

What workers? SS was the only employee and AJ at the hanger. The incinerator was seen in the hanger along with the homemade one. SS ordered it, and DM was asking him questions about where the generator was for it. What other workers were there that would've been suspicious? If they weren't suspicious about a woodchipper showing up, I doubt this phased anyone. MOO

 

[Oreck]

I don't think MS was truthful when he said he stayed at the hanger to remove the seats and floor mats.
I have removed seats and floor mats from vehicles before and it is no easy job.
Definitely not something I would try in the dark.
There was no video evidence of him working with a flashlight.
The seat tie down bolts are hard to get at in full light even if you know where they are.
The door sills would have to come off to wash under them.
I suspect SS might have lent a helping hand early next morn.
MS and his lawyer tailored his testimony to fit the disclosures.
He is GAC.

 

[canadiangirl]

I don't think MS was truthful when he said he stayed at the hanger to remove the seats and floor mats.
I have removed seats and floor mats from vehicles before and it is no easy job.
Definitely not something I would try in the dark.
There was no video evidence of him working with a flashlight.
The seat tie down bolts are hard to get at in full light even if you know where they are.
The door sills would have to come off to wash under them.
I suspect SS might have lent a helping hand early next morn.
MS and his lawyer tailored his testimony to fit the disclosures.
He is GAC.

MS said he began removing carpet and seat belts when DM left. And there were lights in the hanger. Not sure where you're getting he was doing this in the dark? We saw lights from the hanger in the video evidence when someone opened the door to check on the incinerator outside.

People are upset about misinformation here. Please quote your sources for this. Thanks

 

[Georgeo]

It seems a shame that the whole gang of thieves testified to save their own butts. I would have preferred them to be in a cell somewhere eating their three squares off of plastic prison trays. It must have been difficult for the Bosma's to be in the same room as these 's and watch them enjoy the freedom that their loved one no longer has. Disgusting in fact. The testimony of all of them is not worth the paper it is written on in my opinion. The only reason they were there was to save themselves.

Sad story when the entourage was concerned with their own asses, and who cares about the dead guy. Lies and cover up were the rules they chose to abide by. Not just one of them, but every single one was selfish and lied to protect themselves. Pretty sad state in society if this is the norm for this bunch (sure hope not the case for all of society).

Mr. Bosma didn't deserse this, he did nothing to provoke this, and his family has to live without him forever, changing the life of his baby daughter who now growing up without her dad.

Yet in court, Bosma isn't allowed any respect or sympathy. Truly disgusting. Moo

 

[grimmyman]

A lawyer kindly sent me to a link of a Supreme Court case regarding forcible confinement and 1st DM. Here is the link:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2008/2008scc59/2008scc59.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think that would apply, if they put the gun on him and forced him into the truck at the start. The cases are similar are too dissimilar for the case law to be usable. In the scenarios given it was a quick flash of the gun and dead. It is unlikely of an ongoing holding of the victim given testimony given in this case.

Further, there is likely some "legal argument" about eligibility of forcible confinement, which we may not be privy too where it was decided without the jury that forcible confinement would not apply to the DM and MS trial.

 

[grimmyman]

Sad story when the entourage was concerned with their own asses, and who cares about the dead guy. Lies and cover up were the rules they chose to abide by. Not just one of them, but every single one was selfish and lied to protect themselves. Pretty sad state in society if this is the norm for this bunch (sure hope not the case for all of society).

Mr. Bosma didn't deserse this, he did nothing to provoke this, and his family has to live without him forever, changing the life of his baby daughter who now growing up without her dad.

Yet in court, Bosma isn't allowed any respect or sympathy. Truly disgusting. Moo

Unfortunately the victim didnt deserve any of this, and all the reprecusions that come from it.

And no, Bosma is not on trial. MS and DM are on trial. Their trial being done fairly and impartially is all that matters. Feelings of sorrow , hate, sadness, etc etc etc do not belong in a court room or legal discussion.

This is a trial for justice, and to be done properly. It is not a trial for vengeance and revenge. <modsnip>

 

[deugirtni]

Hi :loser: It wasn't an add on from me, but from the judge. I just posted about it, so you'll probably see that now. I didn't see it in other tweets either. They (MSM tweeters) must not be as obsessively detail oriented as most of us WSs? :loser: Just joking, most of them do great, just must be difficult to post it all on an electronic device esp with limited characters. Whereas I was aiming to transcribe word for word by hand.

Excellent, thank you. It's definitely impossible for the reporters to tweet everything. We're actually missing quite a bit, even though the reporters are doing an excellent job. They are not verbatim court recorders/transcriptionists.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think MS was truthful when he said he stayed at the hanger to remove the seats and floor mats.
I have removed seats and floor mats from vehicles before and it is no easy job.
Definitely not something I would try in the dark.
There was no video evidence of him working with a flashlight.
The seat tie down bolts are hard to get at in full light even if you know where they are.
The door sills would have to come off to wash under them.
I suspect SS might have lent a helping hand early next morn.
MS and his lawyer tailored his testimony to fit the disclosures.
He is GAC.

MS said he began removing the carpet (as ordered to by DM) while DM went to refuel the Yukon. Then DM came back and they both removed the seats. It sure wouldn't surprise me either though, to hear that SS had more physical involvement than what has been presented. moo

 

[hellkat2]

The minute they decided to put a person into an incinerator, iMO, that was a plan not a cleanup. It might have been a year long plan, a 3 day plan, or even an hour-long plan since they did it an hour after the test drive started. An hour of planning is all that's needed IMO. They planned together to finish him off.

DM and MS were prepared for any situation that presented. Extra set of clothes, guns, duct tape, plastic tarps, spray paint, trailers, chop shop fully operational, mechanic, incinerator, walkie talkies, burner phones. Everything a gang of thieves could possibly need in any scenario that presents itself during their truck thieiving mission.
If someone sticks a gun in your face and says give me all your money and you say NO and they shoot you dead.......it is first degree murder.

 

[MsSherlock]

I can't help but think about the Jurors tonight, as they pack their bags and prepare for bunkering down in an unknown hotel away from the rest of the world until they can reach a verdict. Being on a Jury in a trial of this magnitude has to take it's toll- truly amazing that there's still 12 Jurors.

It's such an incredible responsibility. On another note, I wonder if any of DM or MS's family will be present when a verdict is reached? How much time is there from the time the Jury has reached their decision and Court is called to order? Will they be keeping MS at Barton St while the Jury is out? Everyone doesn't stay at the courthouse......do they?

 

[Oreck]

"

MS said he began removing carpet and seat belts when DM left. And there were lights in the hanger. Not sure where you're getting he was doing this in the dark? We saw lights from the hanger in the video evidence when someone opened the door to check on the incinerator outside.

People are upset about misinformation here. Please quote your sources for this. Thanks

"

I have done this and it is not a job you can do at night under light from a window next door.
I think the hanger lights were only turned on after DM got back from Timmys or where ever.
The doors were not open for the time Dillen was gone and even this would not have been adequate light to find all the tie-down bolt and screws in the dark.
Mark was lying.

 

[Abitcountry]

I am cheating tonight....keeping one eye on the posts and one eye on the Tony Awards hosted by late night host James Corden....I usually find the Tony's boring after a while but tonight.....have to say 'best show ever'.