Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Satchie]

Gang initiation might sound a little far-fetched, but that's the scenario I keep going back to.

The only thing is, DM wasn't making any attempt to look or act the part - what kind of gangster wears a satchel and plaid shirt? And MS living at home with his Mom, dutifully walking the dog.

I wonder if it was some sort of private fantasy between them. Folie a deux, as someone said.

 

[brightii]

It's just a few more days now until the trial continues and I see many of you haven't taken any break. I hope you're all doing well!

I've been thinking a lot about motive and I lean toward the murder having happened on a dare OR on a bet to prove something. As inbetweendoors and I had mentioned previously, the burner phone purchased by "Lucas Bate" is an anagram for casual bet, as noted by someone on Twitter.

Tonight I was googling a bit and came upon lots of discussions about the Book of Job and could see a a thread of possible significance to this crime. Satan (Say10 - MS) made a casual bet with God (DM)? The good and faithful Job (TB) is made to suffer all to prove a point of some kind.

I'm no biblical scholar obviously, lol, but this type of story could have fueled some weird fantasy that they (DM and MS) shared, IMO.

Anyway, I don't know what to make of it, but when googling the subject, I also came across Rabbi Kushner's book entitled, "When Bad Things Happened to A Good Person" all about God and Job and the bet with Satan. The book title gave me chills when thinking in context of what happened to poor, innocent TB. Kushner's more well known book is of course, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People".

Anyway, no one else may make any connection but it strikes me as a possibility for motive. And when I think of SB's comment (paraphrasing here) about the devil having walked down her driveway, I don't doubt she recognized the presence of true evil.

All MOO.

 

[brightii]

Dellen looked like he was his own boss. And who would want MS in their gang as a full member?? I wouldn't want a guy in my gang who, although in his twenties, still managed to get caught by LE on a simple tagging(graffiti) mission. What gang would be that dumb? That's not to say he wasn't a lackey. JMO

I wouldn't say DM was a boss to anyone in the real sense of the word. You must remember that the crew he chose to hang out with where precisely that, his choice. DM IMO doesn't possess the sophistication of someone his age and IMO because he was so socially underdeveloped and unaccomplished that's why he chose mostly younger or equally socially and /or morally maladjusted companions.

IMO, DM needed all the small fish, and as IT suggested about MS, the quiet fish, in his fishbowl to make himself feel like a shark! lol Who knows what drove this bunch to act as they did? Maybe they were a ragtag gang of some sort in their own minds or wanted to show a more credible gang that they had the ability and wherewithal to murder someone to prove their worth so they could team up with that gang? We have a lot opinions in the mix.

ALL MOO.

 

[Gumshew]

The only thing is, DM wasn't making any attempt to look or act the part - what kind of gangster wears a satchel and plaid shirt? And MS living at home with his Mom, dutifully walking the dog.

I wonder if it was some sort of private fantasy between them. Folie a deux, as someone said.

Dellen may have drab fashion sense but at least he wasn't cleaning toilets at a hanger to make money. Far from it.

The private fantasy thing might be right.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do you think that TB was killed when DM and MS were both in the truck, or when only DM and TB were in the truck and MS was following in the Yukon?

 

[Gumshew]

And when I think of SB's comment (paraphrasing here) about the devil having walked down her driveway, I don't doubt she recognized the presence of true evil.

All MOO.

You mean recognizing true evil before Tim went on the test drive, or after? She didn't recognize the evil before, obviously, because she let Tim go on the test drive. After the fact, it was recognized by everyone.

 

[brightii]

Do you think that TB was killed when DM and MS were both in the truck, or when only DM and TB were in the truck and MS was following in the Yukon?

Hi SnooperDuper:

I don't know who you are asking, but IMO I don't think we can say as yet. It's been put forth here that TB was killed when the truck pulled into the filed near TB's home but it's also been suggested TB may have been murdered in the Bobcat location. At either site, or wherever TB's death occurred, I don't think anyone including the Crown knows for sure, and even less where DM and MS each were at the moment TB was killed or which one or if both actually shot him.

Maybe I need to pay better attention, but that's my take on things so far. Still more evidence to come and hopefully we will hear what the Crown has to say.

All MOO.

 

[brightii]

You mean recognizing true evil before Tim went on the test drive, or after? She didn't recognize the evil before, obviously, because she let Tim go on the test drive. After the fact, it was recognized by everyone.

Hi Gumshew: Yes, after! I just meant that for me, in context to what I wrote about the whole possible biblical connection, her words came to mind tonight. Also too, thinking about the fact that TB and family are religious, I imagine that is just a coincidence. In my above working theory, I can't imagine DM/MS would have been aware of the family's religious beliefs, so I don't think that factored into any a bet or dare they acted out, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Hi SnooperDuper:

I don't know who you are asking, but IMO I don't think we can say as yet. It's been put forth here that TB was killed when the truck pulled into the filed near TB's home but it's also been suggested TB may have been murdered in the Bobcat location. At either site, or wherever TB's death occurred, I don't think anyone including the Crown knows for sure, and even less where DM and MS each were at the moment TB was killed or which one or if both actually shot him.

Maybe I need to pay better attention, but that's my take on things so far. Still more evidence to come and hopefully we will hear what the Crown has to say.

All MOO.

I'm just asking for general opinions.

The attempted robbery theory would be awkward if both DM and MS stopped at the Yukon and tried to throw TB out of the truck and get MS out and into the Yukon.

One stop to put MS following in the Yukon and a second stop at Bobcat to murder and tarp?

 

[brightii]

I'm just asking for general opinions.

The attempted robbery theory would be awkward if both DM and MS stopped at the Yukon and tried to throw TB out of the truck and get MS out and into the Yukon.

One stop to put MS following in the Yukon and a second stop at Bobcat to murder and tarp?

Yes, but perhaps they came up with a plausible reason to stop at that field and let MS without any altercation with TB.

In any case, I would like to see it spelled out by the Crown what they think happened in their summary (and perhaps further evidence yet to be presented) and since they have all analyzed the evidence, it will likely make sense, IMO.

Personally, I never felt it right that TB was killed in the field so close to his home, but that is based on my gut and nothing much more. I think TB was likely killed at the Bobcat site or in the moving truck on the way there, IMO.

All MOO.

ETA: Also it would have been much darker at the Bobcat site than at the field near TB's home 45 minutes or so earlier, so less threat of being detected.

 

[Gumshew]

Hi Gumshew: Yes, after! I just meant that for me, in context to what I wrote about the whole possible biblical connection, her words came to mind tonight. Also too, thinking about the fact that TB and family are religious, I imagine that is just a coincidence. In my above working theory, I can't imagine DM/MS would have been aware of the family's religious beliefs, so I don't think that factored into any a bet or dare they acted out, IMO.

All MOO.

Okay, Brightii, thanks for the clarification. I probably still don't get it but it might be that I need sleep.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Hi guys. Completely O/T, but in the time I've been following this case, I also wrote and published a novel. (Totally unrelated, it's a nerdy paranormal thriller, although I give a few oblique shout-outs to Websleuths and true crime as a hobby, because of course there's a mysterious murder.) If interested, PM me. Please don't be offended that I'm going to screen responses to some extent; my WS anonymity is important to me and this case has been contentious. Assuming anyone is even interested.

Sorry O/T, won't bring it up again.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes, but perhaps they came up with a plausible reason to stop at that field and let MS without any altercation with TB.

In any case, I would like to see it spelled out by the Crown what they think happened in their summary (and perhaps further evidence yet to be presented) and since they have all analyzed the evidence, it will likely make sense, IMO.

Personally, I never felt it right that TB was killed in the field so close to his home, but that is based on my gut and nothing much more. I think TB was likely killed at the Bobcat site or in the moving truck on the way there, IMO.

All MOO.

ETA: Also it would have been much darker at the Bobcat site than at the field near TB's home 45 minutes or so earlier, so less threat of being detected.

So that would put MS in the Yukon, away from all the action.

See I wondered why MS even bothered to come up the driveway and get in the truck: he could have waited with the Yukon in the shrubbery and pulled out and followed DM. Why not?

The Crown also claims "they" killed TB.

 

[brightii]

Hi guys. Completely O/T, but in the time I've been following this case, I also wrote and published a novel. (Totally unrelated, it's a nerdy paranormal thriller, although I give a few oblique shout-outs to Websleuths and true crime as a hobby. If interested, PM me. Please don't be offended that I'm going to screen responses to some extent; my WS anonymity is important to me and this case has been contentious. Assuming anyone is even interested.

Sorry O/T, won't bring it up again.

Hi ArianeEmory: Congrats on your book! I hope you have great success with it.

I think you're being totally sensible about asking for PMs for anyone interested in getting a copy. Anonymity is important, especially in light of lessons we've sadly learned all too well from this case.

G'nite all!

All MOO.

 

[Satchie]

Dellen may have drab fashion sense but at least he wasn't cleaning toilets at a hanger to make money. Far from it

No, they are a strange pair for sure. What I meant was neither present themselves as being the slightest bit menacing, as you'd expect. MS tries a bit, but can't pull it off.

 

[brightii]

So that would put MS in the Yukon, away from all the action.

See I wondered why MS even bothered to come up the driveway and get in the truck: he could have waited with the Yukon in the shrubbery and pulled out and followed DM. Why not?

The Crown also claims "they" killed TB.

If they both got out of the vehicle at the Bobcat site they could have both shot DB, IMO.

But I'm really thinking about my theory of a dare or bet to prove something and maybe they both had to take a turn with the gun to fulfill it, IMO.

And yes, I've always wondered why they both went to TB's home. It makes no sense except for what I view as DM needing company all the time and he/they may have been more concerned about the vehicle being seen than MS? But that makes no sense because DM could have been dropped off by MS as you say without MS or the Yukon having been seen, IMO. It's all so senseless. How are we ever to figure out the whys? Our questions may never be adequately addressed, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[brightii]

No, they are a strange pair for sure. What I meant was neither present themselves as being the slightest bit menacing, as you'd expect. MS tries a bit, but can't pull it off.

I agree, Satchie! Both DM and MS are perceived by me as misfits each in their own way, but nothing would scream overtly sinister about either of them at first glance.

All MOO.

 

[Gumshew]

No, they are a strange pair for sure. What I meant was neither present themselves as being the slightest bit menacing, as you'd expect. MS tries a bit, but can't pull it off.

Yes, I see what you mean-- they're oddballs. MS is sort of in the twilight zone between wankster and gangster. And Dellen just a nice guy you'd feel comfortable talking to in a hardware store cashier line up. No obvious outwardly signs of criminality.

 

[Kamille]

Dellen may have drab fashion sense but at least he wasn't cleaning toilets at a hanger to make money. Far from it.

The private fantasy thing might be right.

Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with people who clean toilets for a living? At least it's honest work and there are a lot of decent people doing it. Unlike the rich alleged murderer in this case who has not worked a day in his life and thought that the preliminary hearing for the murder of his father, of which he has also been accused, was a good time to request better reading material and take out lunches for himself while he was inconvenienced at a different jail.

http://www.chch.com/millard-on-trial/

 

[muddy tires]

Agreed! but one would need to know what size receiver was on the TB truck. Otherwise the Yukon would have been used.

Was the receiver size quoted in the Kijiji ad? I dunno, I have never looked at in detail. If not it would be something that would have to be discussed during a phone conversation or a text.

It would be one of the first questions I would ask if was buying a vehicle for towing reasons. The truck could have had a custom receiver.

Note: There was no hitch in the receiver of the "TB" truck images
nor the Yukon.

Napper

It's pretty standard for full size trucks to have a 2" receiver. Chevrolet/GM have 2 1/2" receivers and it's a real pain to find attachments becuase the 2" ones are ao prevalent.