Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Abitcountry]

I suspect that the higher cost has to do with the cost of construction of a proper facility....such as the female prison located near Kitchener.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I suspect that the higher cost has to do with the cost of construction of a proper facility....such as the female prison located near Kitchener.

Proper as in? Women CAN use the same facilities as men. I spent 5 and a half months in the hospital last year and women as well as men were both there. The same facility housing both genders. It made no difference and I don't see why a female prison would cost more then an all male prison. If anything a male prison should cost more to build because you are putting in urinals as well as toilets. Women don't need both.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Proper as in? Women CAN use the same facilities as men. I spent 5 and a half months in the hospital last year and women as well as men were both there. The same facility housing both genders. It made no difference and I don't see why a female prison would cost more then an all male prison. If anything a male prison should cost more to build because you are putting in urinals as well as toilets. Women don't need both.

There is probably an economy of scale: there must be 10X the number of men in prisons than women. Housing a smaller group to the same standards probably costs more per capita.

 

[Quaere_veritatem]

Hi, first time poster, long time lurker. Something from the last or second last day of proceedings before March break struck me as odd, so I did some digging through tweets from past testimony.
On March 8 and 9 Plaxton did an excellent job proving the vehicle trailing the pickup truck was DM Yukon, he could not do the same with Tim’s truck because it was not driveable. On March 9 the cross examination of Plaxton starts by Pillay. Pillay makes a point of noting that the time error on the Super Sucker security camera had already been fixed by time he got the video so that Plaxton could not confirm the time error. Pillay seems to accept that the one vehicle is DM’s Yukon but submits additional video of other vehicles passing Super Sucker at different times that could also be Tim’s truck because they have similar characteristics to the truck in the video that Plaxton identified as likely to be Tim’s truck.
From February 24[SUP]th[/SUP] when the Super Sucker video was first introduced the time difference was discussed at length. I’ve taken this from the Tweets that day.

“The prep meeting was with Assistant Crown Tony Leitch. In the notes of that meeting, it says Stoltz said approximately three hours out, plus or minus one or two minutes.
by Adam Carter 10:44 AM” February 24, post #30

and

“"I know that it was quite close to three hours," Stieva says.
by Adam Carter 11:00 AM” February 24, post #42

Based on this testimony I think we could assume that the time error was close to 3 hours but not exactly three hours. They say approximately and within a minute or two, what if it was a bit more, like 5 or 10. that’s still close to 3 hours. So for the sake of argument let’s assume that it was actually between 3:05 and 3:10 hours out.
We know from timestamps that DM was walking up TB driveway at 9:05. We also know they didn’t spend a lot of time looking at the truck before going on the test drive.

“Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal now "Someone coming over to buy a truck of that value at that time of night certainly should've taken an extensive view...?" suggests Dungey.” February 2, post #62

This was in relation to the defense trying to make it look DM wasn’t very interested because he didn’t look at it very long and didn’t pull it up to the light by the garage. It also leads you to believe that they left on the test drive shortly after arriving at TB home.
From the additional video submitted by Pillay we get the following information.

“Pillay says the video is consistent with a vehicle consistent with Bosma's truck going north on Trinity Road at 9:05 p.m., then going south at 9:15 p.m. ten minutes later. "Yes it is," Plaxton says. Pillay then says it's consistent with Bosma vehicle travelling north again at 9:20 p.m., Plaxton agrees. by Adam Carter 3:57 PM” March 9, Post #256

Super Sucker isn’t far from the TB home, maybe one or two minutes. So based on adjusted timeframes using my 3:05 time adjustment (instead of 3:00), it’s quite possible that DM and MS arrived at TB’s home, left for the test drive and passed Super Sucker at 9:10 and coming back at 9:20 and finally passing again with the Yukon behind at 9:25. This timeframe still fits what the neighbour saw too.
This timeframe still allows them to get to Bobcat in Brantford by 10:00, especially if they take the faster 403 route (faster by about 10 minutes).
This means TB was likely killed somewhere about 5 minutes North, East or West of Super Sucker. That would help explain why they never found glass from the blown out window (not counting the glass they found on the farm in the burnt patch, which I think came from when they burned the carpet).
This doesn’t change any of the significant facts in the case but it presents an alternative scenario on what they did after leaving TB’s home and before they arrived at Bobcat in Brantford. All of this is my own opinion and my intent is just to present another point of view I've not seen expressed here. Since this is my first post, i'm guessing I probably did the formatting wrong for the quotes, so please accept my most sincere apologies.

 

[matou]

Excellent first post Quaere_veritatem!

:welcome4::welcome4:

 

[billandrew]

Hi, first time poster, long time lurker. Something from the last or second last day of proceedings before March break struck me as odd, so I did some digging through tweets from past testimony.
On March 8 and 9 Plaxton did an excellent job proving the vehicle trailing the pickup truck was DM Yukon, he could not do the same with Tim’s truck because it was not driveable. On March 9 the cross examination of Plaxton starts by Pillay. Pillay makes a point of noting that the time error on the Super Sucker security camera had already been fixed by time he got the video so that Plaxton could not confirm the time error. Pillay seems to accept that the one vehicle is DM’s Yukon but submits additional video of other vehicles passing Super Sucker at different times that could also be Tim’s truck because they have similar characteristics to the truck in the video that Plaxton identified as likely to be Tim’s truck.
From February 24[SUP]th[/SUP] when the Super Sucker video was first introduced the time difference was discussed at length. I’ve taken this from the Tweets that day.

and

Based on this testimony I think we could assume that the time error was close to 3 hours but not exactly three hours. They say approximately and within a minute or two, what if it was a bit more, like 5 or 10. that’s still close to 3 hours. So for the sake of argument let’s assume that it was actually between 3:05 and 3:10 hours out.
We know from timestamps that DM was walking up TB driveway at 9:05. We also know they didn’t spend a lot of time looking at the truck before going on the test drive.

This was in relation to the defense trying to make it look DM wasn’t very interested because he didn’t look at it very long and didn’t pull it up to the light by the garage. It also leads you to believe that they left on the test drive shortly after arriving at TB home.
From the additional video submitted by Pillay we get the following information.

Super Sucker isn’t far from the TB home, maybe one or two minutes. So based on adjusted timeframes using my 3:05 time adjustment (instead of 3:00), it’s quite possible that DM and MS arrived at TB’s home, left for the test drive and passed Super Sucker at 9:10 and coming back at 9:20 and finally passing again with the Yukon behind at 9:25. This timeframe still fits what the neighbour saw too.
This timeframe still allows them to get to Bobcat in Brantford by 10:00, especially if they take the faster 403 route (faster by about 10 minutes).
This means TB was likely killed somewhere about 5 minutes North, East or West of Super Sucker. That would help explain why they never found glass from the blown out window (not counting the glass they found on the farm in the burnt patch, which I think came from when they burned the carpet).
This doesn’t change any of the significant facts in the case but it presents an alternative scenario on what they did after leaving TB’s home and before they arrived at Bobcat in Brantford. All of this is my own opinion and my intent is just to present another point of view I've not seen expressed here. Since this is my first post, i'm guessing I probably did the formatting wrong for the quotes, so please accept my most sincere apologies.

Great first post!

I, too, am very curious about the extra trip past Super Sucker. It shows that after they left TB's home, they did not go straight to the field where the Yukon was likely parked. Instead, they drove north past Super Sucker, perhaps all the way to Wilson St. and beyond, then drove back 10 minutes later to pick up the Yukon. This increases the area where TB could have been shot significantly. And you're right, it all fits into the timeline.

 

[brightii]

I know this case has a lot of forensic testimony but I'm hoping to hear more testimony this week from regular witnesses. For me, testimony from DM's uncle for instance interests me more than all the technical details which I'm not so good at analyzing as are many of you. I want to hear the more human aspects and perspectives from people involved or associated with the case.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I know this case has a lot of forensic testimony but I'm hoping to hear more testimony this week from regular witnesses. For me, testimony from DM's uncle for instance interests me more than all the technical details which I'm not so good at analyzing as are many of you. I want to hear the more human aspects and perspectives from people involved or associated with the case.

All MOO.

That's exactly how I feel. I am interested to hear about DM and MS's interactions and personalities. We were given a really false image of DM in particular at first, IMO: awkward, dog-biscuit-eating prep-school kid that never got into trouble. IT seems to me now that he is a lot more sophisticated and deviant than all that.

 

[Sleepy Villager]

^^^Agree. I am so curious to see if MS takes the stand. And if he does, how DM will react. I wouldn't put it past him to blurt something out in court. Really looking forward to the girlfriends and SS testifying. I hope they're truthful on the stand. I think MM will be, but not so sure about the other two.

 

[mskrisc]

anyone made the matthew ward-jackson informant connection ?

Very interested in hearing your theory on this one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[billandrew]

Based on the order of the cross-examinations, I assume DM's defense will present its case first and MS will be second. Do you think this gives an advantage to either side? Having two defenses definitely creates an interesting dynamic in the courtroom, and I am sure it will play to the Crown's advantage if they go head to head against each other.

 

[Ironworker736]

^^^Agree. I am so curious to see if MS takes the stand. And if he does, how DM will react. I wouldn't put it past him to blurt something out in court. Really looking forward to the girlfriends and SS testifying. I hope they're truthful on the stand. I think MM will be, but not so sure about the other two.

<BBM>
I think an Order for Severance would be made if one or the other were to testify. JMO

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Charges

 

[Stratocaster]

Hi, first time poster, long time lurker. Something from the last or second last day of proceedings before March break struck me as odd, so I did some digging through tweets from past testimony.
On March 8 and 9 Plaxton did an excellent job proving the vehicle trailing the pickup truck was DM Yukon, he could not do the same with Tim&#8217;s truck because it was not driveable. On March 9 the cross examination of Plaxton starts by Pillay. Pillay makes a point of noting that the time error on the Super Sucker security camera had already been fixed by time he got the video so that Plaxton could not confirm the time error. Pillay seems to accept that the one vehicle is DM&#8217;s Yukon but submits additional video of other vehicles passing Super Sucker at different times that could also be Tim&#8217;s truck because they have similar characteristics to the truck in the video that Plaxton identified as likely to be Tim&#8217;s truck.
From February 24[SUP]th[/SUP] when the Super Sucker video was first introduced the time difference was discussed at length. I&#8217;ve taken this from the Tweets that day.

and

Based on this testimony I think we could assume that the time error was close to 3 hours but not exactly three hours. They say approximately and within a minute or two, what if it was a bit more, like 5 or 10. that&#8217;s still close to 3 hours. So for the sake of argument let&#8217;s assume that it was actually between 3:05 and 3:10 hours out.
We know from timestamps that DM was walking up TB driveway at 9:05. We also know they didn&#8217;t spend a lot of time looking at the truck before going on the test drive.

This was in relation to the defense trying to make it look DM wasn&#8217;t very interested because he didn&#8217;t look at it very long and didn&#8217;t pull it up to the light by the garage. It also leads you to believe that they left on the test drive shortly after arriving at TB home.
From the additional video submitted by Pillay we get the following information.

Super Sucker isn&#8217;t far from the TB home, maybe one or two minutes. So based on adjusted timeframes using my 3:05 time adjustment (instead of 3:00), it&#8217;s quite possible that DM and MS arrived at TB&#8217;s home, left for the test drive and passed Super Sucker at 9:10 and coming back at 9:20 and finally passing again with the Yukon behind at 9:25. This timeframe still fits what the neighbour saw too.
This timeframe still allows them to get to Bobcat in Brantford by 10:00, especially if they take the faster 403 route (faster by about 10 minutes).
This means TB was likely killed somewhere about 5 minutes North, East or West of Super Sucker. That would help explain why they never found glass from the blown out window (not counting the glass they found on the farm in the burnt patch, which I think came from when they burned the carpet).
This doesn&#8217;t change any of the significant facts in the case but it presents an alternative scenario on what they did after leaving TB&#8217;s home and before they arrived at Bobcat in Brantford. All of this is my own opinion and my intent is just to present another point of view I've not seen expressed here. Since this is my first post, i'm guessing I probably did the formatting wrong for the quotes, so please accept my most sincere apologies.

I wonder if DM or MS had spent some time researching the Trinity Rd area on Google Earth online after making initial contact with TB to set up the test drive, hence finding a spot to park the Yukon. With the phone ping times entered as evidence near TB's residence, one would think this would have been approaching dusk, and not an ideal time to circle the area looking for a good hitting spot. All premeditated, all MOO.

 

[muddy tires]

If TB's truck wasn't a dually, would it have had enough towing capacity to tow the 5th wheel trailer with jeep inside down to Baha?

Many people tow larger trailers with single rear wheel 3500 pickups (and 2500 pickups also). The dual rear wheels add stability so the trailer doesn't push the truck around so much.

 

[muddy tires]

<rsbm>

I don't know if this is of any significance, but I notice the trailer Marty is seen taking his bike parts from has some wood slats installed horizontally underneath the top metal rails. Perhaps this was the start of some initial framing in for future sidewall compartments. Also FWIW, the vertical wooden studs are not offset as they are in DM's big trailer.

http://storage.torontosun.com/v1/dy...97422838212_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x

http://images.scribblelive.com/2016/2/17/6cca124d-1937-4697-ae32-50756a2e89e2_800.png

Could be nothing.

Those trim pieces are too small to be structural. They are just covering the seams where 2 pieces of plywood meet. MOO

 

[muddy tires]

Cannot locate the picture at the moment but there was an open trailer removed from the hangar (hauled away on a tow truck deck) ... I beleive it was also towing the stolen Harley trailer.

My guess it is the trailer SS was building , the one DM was anxious to get finished .... my guess it was to haul the race jeep , and TB's truck was to tow the trailer

I base that on the fact that the previous trip to Baja they used that huge enclosed trailer containing only a small jeep , and with all the wind resistance it would eat double the fuel compared to a small open trailer towed by a diesel (Tims truck)

I have towed those large enclosed trailers with dual wheeled trucks and it is not very relaxing for a long trip , the dual wheels take up the whole lane , not very maneuverable in parking lots , wind gusts toss them around a bit on the highway , the enclosed trailer blocks all rear visibility , and besides , a battered race jeep does not need to be protected (enclosed)

Tim's truck and the smaller trailer would have solved those issues.

.

I have also towed large trailers and you are correct - they can be a real handful. However if I were going to Baja I would prefer an enclosed trailer to carry all the required accessories - tools, spare parts, fuel, other gear. I have an enclosed 4 place snowmobile trailer (30 feet long) and it's not generally too difficult to handle on the highway.

 

[muddy tires]

When the Dodge Ram is arriving (Bobcats video) the cab lights are off, headlights on. When it is returning both the cab lights and headlights are on.

Interesting. I went back and rewatched the video. You are correct that the cab lights can't be seen. My only explanation is that perhaps it's because the truck is angling away from the camera so they are hidden. But a 2006 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel does not have a separate switch for cab clearance lights from the factory. I checked the owners manual at http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/owners/manuals/

 

[SnooperDuper]

Any idea what this is?

Summary
36766
Dellen Millard v. Her Majesty the Queen

(Ontario) (Criminal) (By Leave)

(Publication ban in case)

Keywords
Criminal law - Self-incrimination (ss. 11(c), 13).

Summary
Case summaries are prepared by the Office of the Registrar of the Supreme Court of Canada (Law Branch) for information purposes only.

Criminal law &#8211; Self-incrimination &#8211; Testimony &#8211; Whether the judge&#8217;s order compels the testimony of the Applicant pursuant to s. 527 of the Criminal Code

The Applicant seeks leave to appeal the orders of MacDonnell J. dated August 17, 2015 and Belobaba J. dated December 2, 2015.

http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/sum-som-eng.aspx?cas=36766

 

[SnooperDuper]

Seems the above did not go in DM's favour?

The applications for leave to appeal from the Order of MacDonnell J. of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, dated August 17, 2015 and the Order of Belobaba J. of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, dated December 2, 2015, are dismissed.

http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=36766

 

[swedie]

Seems the above did not go in DM's favour?



http://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=36766

Nice find Snooper! Perhaps DM did answer questions right after his arrest, during his interrogation and incriminated himself. Maybe he admitted murder in jail house letters or in text messages prior to his arrest?

If DM was feeling under any pressure or stress this far into the trial, he better really psych himself up for what's to come. It ain't going to be pretty...that's for sure. Lots of witness in line ready to toss him under the bus to save their own hides. MOO. :laugh:

Self-incrimination
Self-incrimination is the act of exposing oneself (generally, by making a statement) "to an accusation or charge of crime; to involve oneself or another [person] in a criminal prosecution or the danger thereof."[1] Self-incrimination can occur either directly or indirectly: directly, by means of interrogation where information of a self-incriminatory nature is disclosed; indirectly, when information of a self-incriminatory nature is disclosed voluntarily without pressure from another person.

In many legal systems, accused criminals cannot be compelled to incriminate themselves&#8212;they may choose to speak to police or other authorities, but they cannot be punished for refusing to do so. The precise details of this right of the accused vary between different countries, and some countries do not recognize such a right at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination