Brad Cooper Indicted

[SleuthyGal]

I will be interested to see what LE has to have arrested Brad for premeditated murder.

Hi Fran! Premeditation can be proved by the fact that killing Nancy would have taken at least 4 minutes (the average time to kill via strangulation). That alone will prove premeditation...i.e. the killer KNEW his actions would lead to death and he continued his actions anyway.

From Black's Law Dictionary: "Premeditation" means "thought of beforehand for any length of time, however short." Black's Law Dictionary, 6th ed (1990), p 1180. Case law establishes that a timeframe as short as several seconds establishes premeditation. See, e.g., People v Wells, 10 Cal.2d 610, 625 (1938).

 

[ncsu95]

PS....I honestly feel sorry for Brad's 'friends' as well. Those few who stood up for him, believe his lies. They were the last for Brad's victims. They may not even know it yet......fran

Which posters on here are Brad's friends?

 

[justthinking2008]

Have you also changed your mind about these statements you posted on 10/25?
KL wants those girls to replace NC in her life, that is what I believe in my heart. KL is not promoting a relationship with BC thru her own selfish motives, and I think this speaks volumes regarding her personality.

Sorry Mom have not changed my mind about that, but I do believe that the girls are better off away from this circus. I stated in same post still thought the way it was handled was wrong and controlling and still believe that KL should have allowed BC to see the children at will. I honestly believe those kids should have stayed closer until such time as an arrest was made, and still believe that KL's motives were selfish, also believe that she is human and many people would have reacted the same way if convinced of BIL's guilt, she was probably privy to more info than the rest of us. When I am wrong I will freely admit it as I did earlier. As I said earlier, we can eat crow together when it is proven that no 4:20 trip to HT took place. I am now 50/50 on his guilt vs. innocence whereas before I was 80/20 innocent vs. guilty. I firmly believe that CPD has solid evidence in order to get a murder in 1st indictment, cannot wait to see what it is, if it is as compelling as many say I will probably change my vote to guilty 100%.

 

[momto3kids]

I will be interested to see what LE has to have arrested Brad for premeditated murder. Because for me, although I felt sure Brad committed this crime, I wasn't convinced it was premeditated. There MUST be some compelling evidence for LE to have committed to 'first degree.' Something we have only guessed at or never even thought of.

Fran....I am sure there is much more to come that we will gasp at, but the one thing that stuck out in my mind was the cleaning of the garage.

He says on his deposition he cleaned it so NC SUV would be cooler in the summer. Hmm..lets see, a)it was mid July, not May or June when it was also hot. Never done in the previous years. :waitasec: b)who's car was outside when the LE arrived? c)who's trunk and vehicle had the evidence? d)why was the garage actually cleaned? IMO it was all in the plan.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I'd like to know how it works that 2 children, ages 2 and 4, can 'replace' a twin sister in someone's life? I can't make sense of that. There is no replacement for Nancy in any of her family or friends' lives, just like there is no 'replacement' for any child a family loses, regardless of the age or the circumstances, and no matter who else comes into your life thereafter. One human individual does not replace another.

 

[fran]

Hi Fran! Premeditation can be proved by the fact that killing Nancy would have taken at least 4 minutes (the average time to kill via strangulation). That alone will prove premeditation...i.e. the killer KNEW his actions would lead to death and he continued his actions anyway.

From Black's Law Dictionary: "Premeditation" means "thought of beforehand for any length of time, however short." Black's Law Dictionary, 6th ed (1990), p 1180. Case law establishes that a timeframe as short as several seconds establishes premeditation. See, e.g., People v Wells, 10 Cal.2d 610, 625 (1938).

Thanks SG,..........I do know that about 'premeditaion,' only takes a minute to be 'premeditated.' I'm just not sure IF that's all they're going on to 'prove' premedition, that a jury could be convinced. OTOH, if there's something BEFORE that morning that shows he planned this murder, then all bets are off about conviction of Murder 1.

I do feel, myself though, that the length of time it would take to strangle someone, is enough to determine Murder 1. Whoever, knew what they were doing would result in 'death,' YET, they continued their deed. They could have stopped. (I personally know someone who survived such an ordeal)

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Which posters on here are Brad's friends?

I didn't say Brad's 'friends' were posters here on Weblseuths. I'm talking about the friends who gave affidavits, etc., for Brad.

fran

 

[tarheellvr]

The main reason I'm a proponent of adoption is the fact the girls will share the same last name as their "parents"...Jim and Krista. It will be easier for them to be rid of the name Cooper and it's entailing stigma. I say this from personal experience as well as professional experience.

Nancy's family will keep her memory alive. Being intelligent, loving people, they will do this for Bella and Katie as this is what is best for them. There is no question in my mind the girls will grow up knowing their mother and how very, very much she love each of them.

We all bring parts of our emotional/personal personna here with our posts. We all are driven by many of the same issues. The thing I hope all of us realize is, regardless of our thoughts/feelings about this case, we all deserve respect and understanding. With that said, I hope all of us can be openminded to other's feelings. Thank goodness we can all come here with the right to post as we want. To me that's one of the beauties of this forum.

 

[justthinking2008]

Fran....I am sure there is much more to come that we will gasp at, but the one thing that stuck out in my mind was the cleaning of the garage.

He says on his deposition he cleaned it so NC SUV would be cooler in the summer. Hmm..lets see, a)it was mid July, not May or June when it was also hot. Never done in the previous years. :waitasec: b)who's car was outside when the LE arrived? c)who's trunk and vehicle had the evidence? d)why was the garage actually cleaned? IMO it was all in the plan.

Mom,

Was his car in the garage when police arrived, I was of the impression that NC's car was parked on the cleaned out side of the garage, not BC's and the side his car was parked on was still cluttered. If in fact his car was in garage, I move to 70/30 on guilt vs. innocence, that would explain how he got the body out of the house without anyone seeing, also I think he may have killed her around 5am after they had gotten up and if he did so he dumped the body on the way to HT, the first time at 6:20. He did indicate the child who was up at 4am went back to bed as he stated he was going to wake her up when he returned from HT.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Was his car in the garage when police arrived, I was of the impression that NC's car was parked on the cleaned out side of the garage, not BC's and the side his car was parked on was still cluttered. If in fact his car was in garage, I move to 70/30 on guilt vs. innocence, that would explain how he got the body out of the house without anyone seeing, also I think he may have killed her around 5am after they had gotten up and if he did so he dumped the body on the way to HT, the first time at 6:20. He did indicate the child who was up at 4am went back to bed as he stated he was going to wake her up when he returned from HT.

When police arrived at the Cooper residence on the afternoon of 7/12, Brad was 'out looking for Nancy' in his car, and the girls were with him. Nancy's car was in the driveway, where it was always parked. Whether his car had been parked in the garage before he left to go look for Nancy or not we haven't heard. Further, we don't know which side of the garage was cleaned out (I asked this last week and didn't get an answer).

 

[Daphne69]

I'd like to know how it works that 2 children, ages 2 and 4, can 'replace' a twin sister in someone's life? I can't make sense of that. There is no replacement for Nancy in any of her family or friends' lives, just like there is no 'replacement' for any child a family loses, regardless of the age or the circumstances, and no matter who else comes into your life thereafter. One human individual does not replace another.

I think what justthinking meant was that KL wants to replace Nancy in the girls's minds -- as their mother. But I agree with you that no one can replace another human being. IMO, KL does want to be their mother now, but she doesn't want to replace Nancy. The psychologist reported how JL and KL had pictures of NC AND BC up for the girls. I personally think KL has done a remarkable job being as even-handed as possible about keeping BC in the girls' lives. I understand that she hasn't gone above what was ordered by the court, but she also appears to have done her best not to bad-mouth BC to the girls. She does have their best itnerests at heart, despite her own grief and anger. JMO.

 

[momto3kids]

When police arrived at the Cooper residence on the afternoon of 7/12, Brad was 'out looking for Nancy' in his car, and the girls were with him. Nancy's car was in the driveway, where it was always parked. Whether his car had been parked in the garage before he left to go look for Nancy or not we haven't heard. Further, we don't know which side of the garage was cleaned out (I asked this last week and didn't get an answer).

SG..right side of garage, if you are facing the house. Steps coming down from the inside of the house are on the left side as well as piles of toys, and all kinds of clutter.

As of even last night it is HIS BMW parked outside as it has been since July 16th. Up until the 16th hers was parked outside.

 

[Maja]

It is my assertion NC was murdered moments after she returned from the party. BC put her in the garage/trunk while he commenced to cleaning the house. He left the girls alone during his trips to the store and on the first trip he put NC at the site where she was found. He then came home to "clean" some more. He had LOADS of time to clean...but thankfully must have missed some places.

If he did it at 5AM he would have had to approach NC while she was asleep. Wonder if she locked her bedroom door and there was evidence of forced entry?

 

[SleuthyGal]

SG..right side of garage, if you are facing the house. Steps coming down from the inside of the house are on the left side as well as piles of toys, and all kinds of clutter.

As of even last night it is HIS BMW parked outside as it has been since July 16th. Up until the 16th hers was parked outside.

Well that to me is a red flag because wasn't Nancy known to park her SUV on the LEFT side of the driveway, and Brad parked his BMW sedan on the right side? (prior to the murder, that is)? Can you confirm if my understanding/assumption is correct?

 

[justthinking2008]

The main reason I'm a proponent of adoption is the fact the girls will share the same last name as their "parents"...Jim and Krista. It will be easier for them to be rid of the name Cooper and it's entailing stigma. I say this from personal experience as well as professional experience.

The reason you are a proponent is the reason I am an opponent. Kate and Bella's mother's last name was Cooper and theirs should be as well, it is their identity and no one deserves to have their identity taken away. I agree KL and JL will keep NC's memory alive for the girls, but BC's family is just as important, regardless of his status as the killer or not. It will be a long time before Katie and Bella fully understand what has happened, if at that time they choose to be adopted by KL and JL that is fine, let it be their decision, I think in this case this request is reasonable. I realize some adoptions work fine, but the majority of adoptions have issues, I fear in this case that BC will be vilified by KL to the point the children will never see him again. I realize that if he killed their mother he vilified himself, but that being the case I do not think he needs any help to look worse. The Cooper family is going to want to see these children as well, adoption will nullify their rights, unfortunately I see an ugly situation arising in the future regarding custody if BC is convicted, the Cooper's are going to protest unfair treatment for custody being given to NC's family when the girls are equally related to BC's family. As I and many others have stated earlier, there are no winners here, but the biggest losers are going to be Katie and Bella.

 

[RaleighNC]

Justthinking -

It is highly likely that Krista and the Rentz's were being kept in the loop regarding the investigation. They likely know more about the evidence than we do and also most likely knew an indictment / arrest was coming. I figured this was the case when they let them all return to Canada with the children.

The more they knew, (evidence) the more that it confirmed her suspicions, and the less likely she would want to be to place those children in danger. And if he killed their mother, I believe that they could be in danger - esp if things got desperate for Brad.

It appeared that they complied with the court order, but did not go out of their way for more. I can fully support that. Krista probably felt that she could not / did not protect Nancy and she decided she sure as he11 was going to protect those girls.

I am glad that the criminal matter of this case is progressing, so that there does not need to be any more stress / worry that the children could be placed back in the hands of a suspected murderer.

 

[momto3kids]

Mom,

Was his car in the garage when police arrived, Yes, outside I was of the impression that NC's car was parked on the cleaned out side of the garage, not BC's and the side his car was parked on was still cluttered. If in fact his car was in garage, I move to 70/30 on guilt vs. innocence, that would explain how he got the body out of the house without anyone seeing, also I think he may have killed her around 5am after they had gotten up and if he did so he dumped the body on the way to HT, the first time at 6:20. He did indicate the child who was up at 4am went back to bed as he stated he was going to wake her up when he returned from HT.

I didn't come to my conclusion that BC was guilty by reading WS and watching the media. I have seen enough 1st hand to put my conclusion together.

As for his statement about Katie being up, he never said he put her back to bed, not on his affidavit. He said he took her to his office in the residence when he got back from the store. 4-6am is blank by his own affidavit.

I still say TOD, 1-3am. (per stomach contents)
Trip to get rid of body 4am. (per him stating he was up)
HT @ 4:20 to buy cleaning product. (per 2 people)
Divers immediately in Lochmere Lake. (highly unusual given this had NO jogging trail around it)

My list can go on...but I have posted it many times already.

 

[justthinking2008]

Daphne,

Close, what I was referring to was a psychological issue called transference. It has been proven in many cases that when we lose a loved one we will transfer the emotion we felt for than individual onto to someone, thus replacing in our minds the loss of the loved one. We can also transfer aggression, hate, anger and many other forms of emotion. The poster who pointed out that KL was trying to protect Katie and Bella because in her mind she feels she failed to protect NC, that is transference, transferring emotion for NC to Kate and Bella.

 

[momto3kids]

Well that to me is a red flag because wasn't Nancy known to park her SUV on the LEFT side of the driveway, and Brad parked his BMW sedan on the right side? (prior to the murder, that is)? Can you confirm if my understanding/assumption is correct?

You are correct. BC right side, NC left side.

 

[Maja]

Well, well BC can do all the "ironman" competitions he wants now.