Break in @ Tony L's Apartment

[seagull65]

I think had he known beforehand that he was going to have to break the lock, he would have not wanted to take part in it. JMO

I agree with you on this point, breaking into a shed to get gas cans where you are instead of simply getting gas some other normal way looks more like poor impulse control than a planned action. MOO

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Only a boy? Then Casey is only a little girl. If only people could show the same presumption of innocence toward the young defendant as toward the "witnesses". Tony's the one who broke into the shed. He changed his story to LE on that issue. (Casey is not the only one who changed stories...) He was obviously old enough that he's responsible for his own actions. Personally, I find a 21 year old man breaking into a friend's father's property very suspicious and not normal at all. I mean, instead of all the other possible courses of action, he decides to break into her father's shed? Scary. MOO

I find it very typical of a young man who is dating a sociopath who used him. She probably acted like she could not break the lock, and the "macho dude" was there "to the rescue.

 

[seagull65]

Of course KC was telling her friends that it was about to become HER HOME and thus HER SHED. It seems unlikely that TL picked KC up and said "Hey, baby, let's go break into your parents shed!" It is REASONABLE to think that KC asked him to do that.

Who says? I mean, evidence wise, not popular theory wise.

As far as changing stories, it's true Tony changed his--but he changed it to the TRUTH.

Who says it's the truth? Besides TL.

Keep in mind the LE has checked out the stories of the "witnesses" and they hold up. That is why the public sees them them as innocent. Tony allowed himself to be wired and cooperated with the police.

LE took statements from some of the people who'd been around Caylee and Casey, examined some of their phone records to a limited extent, and searched the back of TL's car (without cadaver dogs) for hair, blood, etc. That's it. Of course Tony cooperated with police, wore a wire to tape the young mother's brother (whatever, why not) and allowed his phone to be tapped. None of this clears him in any way or proves he was not involved in a crime against Caylee, though I also have never accused him of that (I haven't accused anyone yet.)

KC's stories have proved to be lies and more lies--with a couple of lies thrown in for good measure. Can we really equate the shed incident and eating chicken with not reporting your toddler missing, stealing from friends and family and lying to police about your entire life?

We don't know why Casey gave the strange, cryptic statements, or what her reasons were. She certainly could have been involved in what happened to Caylee, but not necessarily. Many reasons are possible besides being the murderer. However, her refusal or inability to cooperate with police could certainly get her convicted.

Regarding "comparing the shed incident and eating chicken with not reporting your toddler missing", I did not make that comparison. :waitasec: (I do get your point though. I just don't take it for granted that she's the one who harmed Caylee, though. I'm still not sure on that point, so I don't interpret everything else in quite the same way that some people do.)

 

[TURBOTHINK]

But Casey isn't the only one at all who had the means or opportunity to kill Caylee, or who had access to her car, or who spent time at her family home. It has also not been proven whatsoever that she had any motive to kill Caylee. All the witnesses, both old and new friends, stated that KC loved Caylee, had a completely normal loving attachment to Caylee, and would never harm Caylee.

I don't understand the need for the constant whitewashing of TL and other witnesses (I mean by many people, not necessarily you!! ), nor is there a need to claim that KC "lured them in" and all this nonsense that you hear. She was the same age as TL and most of the other witnesses, younger than some. They are all, KC and all of them, responsible for their own actions. Whoever murdered Caylee is responsible for that, obviously. It has not yet been proved who the perpetrator was, where Caylee was killed, how she was killed, who placed her deceased body or items that had been in contact with it in the Pontiac trunk, or who was involved in the disposal of the body. Maybe this will be proved at trial, maybe not.

Casey is definitely responsible for the failure to report, unless she believed at the time (however wrongly) that Caylee was with a trustworthy person who would not harm her. (She is also responsible for the theft of $700 or however much from her friend.) Casey could have committed the murder, or she could have helped cover it up for a boyfriend or someone else, or neither. All of these young people could be in the dark and not know who hurt Caylee. This is what the investigation was for, and what the trial will hopefully prove.

Points that some people often fail to take into consideration are that Casey A has no prior criminal record, she had no history whatsoever of abuse or neglect of Caylee, all the witnesses stated that she would never harm Caylee, and Casey was not the only person with access to Caylee, the car, the A home, etc. The whole "Casey never wanted Caylee" theory began when the media took a statement by KioMTC and quoted it very, very loosely. There is actually no witness who says that Casey did not want Caylee, just the opposite.

The truth will serve Caylee best. Let's hope it is found.

We really don't KNOW about KC's prior criminal record. When this first happened a detective said she had a "long history of criminal activities" -

I tend to think she was under investigation for a number of things at the time she killed Caylee.

There are WAY too many federal agencies in this for a regular child murder. They have some other things going on and most likely we will not find out about them until trial.

I personally believe she was into identity theft of some type. The number of ID's the giving a ZG driver's license to LE when her and Annie were stopped on a routine traffic stop. Her association with more than one identity thieves and scam artists who are now incarcerated. Her association with the drug dealers in Jacksonville.

YEP...........this is just the tip of the iceberg and that is why there is a LOT of money being thrown at her defense and why the FEDS are keeping such a tight lid on their information. They don't have to give it up under Florida's FOIA. Just remember that Fusion was shut down by the DEA within days after her arrest.

 

[LisaNY]

hmmmm, this is quite interesting TurboThink, do you think whatever was going on at Fusian may have had something to do with the break in at TL's?? The break in, the DEA shutting down of the club and TL wearing a wire all are things making me go HMmmmmm ..... You are soooo right, quite a few heavy hitters in the game ... now someone connect all the dots for this amateur. I need help making sense of what is pinging around in my head with all this.

 

[seagull65]

I find it very typical of a young man who is dating a sociopath who used him. She probably acted like she could not break the lock, and the "macho dude" was there "to the rescue.

I think TL was considerably more sophisticated that Casey A. I don't think he was some putz easily used by her (as shown in their behavior throughout the investigation.)

 

[seagull65]

We really don't KNOW about KC's prior criminal record. When this first happened a detective said she had a "long history of criminal activities" -
I tend to think she was under investigation for a number of things at the time she killed Caylee.

There are WAY too many federal agencies in this for a regular child murder. They have some other things going on and most likely we will not find out about them until trial.

I personally believe she was into identity theft of some type. The number of ID's the giving a ZG driver's license to LE when her and Annie were stopped on a routine traffic stop. Her association with more than one identity thieves and scam artists who are now incarcerated. He association with the drug dealers in Jacksonville.

YEP...........this is just the tip of the iceberg and that is why there is a LOT of money being thrown at her defense and why the FEDS are keeping such a tight lid on their information. They don't have to give it up under Florida's FOIA. Just remember that Fusion was shut down by the DEA within days after her arrest.

I agree with all your points here, except your belief that she's definitely the one who killed Caylee, I'm not sure on that point, I don't see her having much of a motive to be honest, I think that's mostly fictional, not that it couldn't have been her when under the influence or manic or something, but could be just about anyone else, and I think a child molester would have a stronger motive to kill a child by far than a mother with no history of violence toward the child. Among other possibilities. But... her prior criminal record. It's my understanding that she doesn't have a prior record. I'm sorry I can't cite a source on that, though. I just heard that stated in the beginning of the case. I do think (or hope at least) there are a lot of sideline investigations going on into the scams, drugs, etc that were going on with associates of Casey, etc. I think LE only looked into Casey after Cindy reported the disappearance though, I don't think they were already investigating her. Though that would be interesting.

I have wondered who (or whose family) is contributing money (or maybe not actual monies but influence in one form or another) to defend her, possibly for her not having talked. (P.S. Wonder also if KC was the only one who had used that ZG id , if she did, as we think she did, all theoretical of course.)

 

[jandkmom]

But Casey isn't the only one at all who had the means or opportunity to kill Caylee, or who had access to her car, or who spent time at her family home. It has also not been proven whatsoever that she had any motive to kill Caylee. All the witnesses, both old and new friends, stated that KC loved Caylee, had a completely normal loving attachment to Caylee, and would never harm Caylee.

I don't understand the need for the constant whitewashing of TL and other witnesses (I mean by many people, not necessarily you!! ), nor is there a need to claim that KC "lured them in" and all this nonsense that you hear. She was the same age as TL and most of the other witnesses, younger than some. They are all, KC and all of them, responsible for their own actions. Whoever murdered Caylee is responsible for that, obviously. It has not yet been proved who the perpetrator was, where Caylee was killed, how she was killed, who placed her deceased body or items that had been in contact with it in the Pontiac trunk, or who was involved in the disposal of the body. Maybe this will be proved at trial, maybe not.

Casey is definitely responsible for the failure to report, unless she believed at the time (however wrongly) that Caylee was with a trustworthy person who would not harm her. (She is also responsible for the theft of $700 or however much from her friend.) Casey could have committed the murder, or she could have helped cover it up for a boyfriend or someone else, or neither. All of these young people could be in the dark and not know who hurt Caylee. This is what the investigation was for, and what the trial will hopefully prove.

Points that some people often fail to take into consideration are that Casey A has no prior criminal record, she had no history whatsoever of abuse or neglect of Caylee, all the witnesses stated that she would never harm Caylee, and Casey was not the only person with access to Caylee, the car, the A home, etc. The whole "Casey never wanted Caylee" theory began when the media took a statement by KioMTC and quoted it very, very loosely. There is actually no witness who says that Casey did not want Caylee, just the opposite.

The truth will serve Caylee best. Let's hope it is found.

While each person involved in this will have to deal with what they did wrong in each situation, Casey was the only one that was Caylee's mom and supposed to take care of her. She lied to everyone about who was watching her and she lied to the police who were looking for her. If someone else killed Caylee, she would have told them instead of taking them on a tour of Universal and Orlando and sitting in jail.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

hmmmm, this is quite interesting TurboThink, do you think whatever was going on at Fusian may have had something to do with the break in at TL's?? The break in, the DEA shutting down of the club and TL wearing a wire all are things making me go HMmmmmm ..... You are soooo right, quite a few heavy hitters in the game ... now someone connect all the dots for this amateur. I need help making sense of what is pinging around in my head with all this.

I don't have it all put together yet, there are so many loose ends, but I do believe I am getting closer. Some of the people she had phone calls and texts to are very interesting and have very interesting backgrounds.

Now with the new witness list being released, we find there are over 250 people who are gong to testify, that tells me there is some other things coming out which have not been released. I am waiting on that list.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I agree with all your points here, except your belief that she's definitely the one who killed Caylee, I'm not sure on that point, I don't see her having much of a motive to be honest, I think that's mostly fictional, not that it couldn't have been her when under the influence or manic or something, but could be just about anyone else, too. But... her prior criminal record. It's my understanding that she doesn't have a prior record. I'm sorry I can't cite a source on that, though. I just heard that stated in the beginning of the case.

And who (or whose family) is contributing money (or maybe not actual monies but influence in one form or another) to defend her, possibly for her not having talked, I wonder. (P.S. Wonder if KC was the only one who had used that ZG id also, if she did, as we think she did, all theoretical of course.)

He didn't say "criminal record" but long history of CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES. He "qualified" his statement.

If LE pulls up your name, it lists any outstanding warrants first, then prior arrests and convictions, THEN activities being or have been investigated. There can be pages long of investigations on a person but no arrest YET.

That is what I believe he was talking about with KC. She could have in addition to investigations a juvey record a mile long which can't be released.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I agree with all your points here, except your belief that she's definitely the one who killed Caylee, I'm not sure on that point, I don't see her having much of a motive to be honest, I think that's mostly fictional, not that it couldn't have been her when under the influence or manic or something, but could be just about anyone else, too. But... her prior criminal record. It's my understanding that she doesn't have a prior record. I'm sorry I can't cite a source on that, though. I just heard that stated in the beginning of the case.

And who (or whose family) is contributing money (or maybe not actual monies but influence in one form or another) to defend her, possibly for her not having talked, I wonder. (P.S. Wonder also if KC was the only one who had used that ZG id , if she did, as we think she did, all theoretical of course.)

Her motive was self centered narcissism. She wanted a life without any hindrances of a child. She "thought" her lies would work with LE just as they had all her life with her evil parents.

Her only hope now is to claim George did it as he has been caught in his lie about seeing Caylee on the 16th when she was already dead.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Sure he was leading her on or, at the very least encouraging her. I'm not saying he led her to believe they were getting married or would be together for life, but he let her move in with him as his girlfriend. That implies more than, "Just gimme the free sex, it don't mean nothing." If he saw that his threats to move to NY upset her so much, then he knew she was too involved. If she was waking up at night crying and told him that it was because she was afraid he'd leave her, he saw that she was too serious. He should have backed off but he didn't because he wanted what she was giving. I can't respect that kind of behavior and would not tolerate it in my two sons.

He DID back off. He was looking for an apartment and told her she could NOT live there. Remember?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I believe it was KC who robbed TonE's apartment. I think she took a shower @ Jesse's to have an alibi about not having a key to TonE's. Didn't Jesse, in one of his statements, say that she didn't look like she needed a shower? Another one of her cover-ups!!!!

Being the little scammer she was, she had a key made when she borrowed his car previously. Of course she was the one who took the money from his roommate.

 

[claudicici]

.....that's very interesting...I doubt she has a juvey record though,I bet she was squeaky clean until after caylee was born...

 

[seagull65]

KC was only a girl, an immature young girl with the responsibility of raising a baby. It is very hard to maintain a presumption of innocense in this case. If it were just a he said/she said circumstance, it would be alot easier. With all the evidence pointing in one direction, there is only one direction to look. KC has changed stories about EVERYTHING!! If TonE were alone on that property, and it was HIS car that needed gas, and he just took a shot at there being gas in KC's garage so he broke the lock, then I would agree thats not normal. What makes you think he was the one who made the decision to break the lock? I was locked out of my car once, a man came along to help me, he broke my window AT MY REQUEST ... was he a good samaritan or a man who was very suspicious???

I respect everyones opinion, this is just moo.

Lisa, I was responding to many people who repeatedly post that KC "got TL to break into her father's shed" as if that is a fact. There is no evidence that that is what happened. It is completely reasonable to say that TL, like anyone else, is responsible for his own actions. He is in fact responsible under the law. He was a 21 year old man at the time, not a child. She couldn't make him do it. The fact that he by his own admission did break into the shed is proof enough that he reached a decision to do it, the action shows the decision.
As far as whose original idea or why, I have no idea. He had many available girls at the club as seen in the club pictures, so it's not like KC's sex appeal would somehow make him commit a break-in against his will, you know. I know it sounds ridiculous, I was only responding to this frequently stated theory that she somehow "made him do it" because of others frequently stating this as if it were a fact.

I think a man breaking your own car window at your request is different from a person breaking into a third party's shed for gas cans rather than simply getting gas in a legal and normal way.

My personal opinion is that a young man who would actually break into a third party's shed for gas cans instead of getting gas in any respectable, normal, legal way shows very poor judgment and impulse control and if I were the grandparents I would be frightened of my granddaughter being around that person. But now that's MOO.

 

[cyberborg]

Her motive was self centered narcissism. She wanted a life without any hindrances of a child. She "thought" her lies would work with LE just as they had all her life with her evil parents.

Her only hope now is to claim George did it as he has been caught in his lie about seeing Caylee on the 16th when she was already dead.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:


"Based on the repetitive lies that the defendant has told, we do not know with whom the child is or even if the child is alive," Corporal Yuri Melich wrote in the arrest affidavit. He added, "It should be noted that at no time during any of the above interviews did the defendant show any obvious emotion as to the loss of her child."

 

[Pondering Mind]

Lisa, I was responding to many people who repeatedly post that KC "got TL to break into her father's shed" as if that is a fact. There is no evidence that that is what happened. It is completely reasonable to say that TL, like anyone else, is responsible for his own actions. He is in fact responsible under the law. He was a 21 year old man at the time, not a child. She couldn't make him do it. The fact that he by his own admission did break into the shed is proof enough that he reached a decision to do it, the action shows the decision.
As far as whose original idea or why, I have no idea. He had many available girls at the club as seen in the club pictures, so it's not like KC's sex appeal would somehow make him commit a break-in against his will, you know. I know it sounds ridiculous, I was only responding to this frequently stated theory that she somehow "made him do it" because of others frequently stating this as if it were a fact.

I think a man breaking your own car window at your request is different from a person breaking into a third party's shed for gas cans rather than simply getting gas in a legal and normal way.

But..if KC was telling TL the same BS that she was telling other friends, then this shed was for all intent and purposes HERS. The house was going to be hers in a matter of days, according to one of her many half-truths. (AKA lies in the real world) I can't imagine that TL even knew that there was a shed with gas cans, so it stands to reason that she asked him to break the lock on HER shed. JMHO

 

[cyberborg]

But..if KC was telling TL the same BS that she was telling other friends, then this shed was for all intent and purposes HERS. The house was going to be hers in a matter of days, according to one of her many half-truths. (AKA lies in the real world) I can't imagine that TL even knew that there was a shed with gas cans, so it stands to reason that she asked him to break the lock on HER shed. JMHO

Self-explanatory, CA's observations about KC ----

July 3 Cindy posted this on MySpace:
Thursday, July 03, 2008: "My caylee is missing She came into my life unexpectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"

 

[Pondering Mind]

Self-explanatory, CA's observations about KC ----

July 3 Cindy posted this on MySpace:
Thursday, July 03, 2008: "My caylee is missing She came into my life unexpectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"

Absolutely (gawd, I hate using that word now!)....nuff said...

 

[cyberborg]

But Casey isn't the only one at all who had the means or opportunity to kill Caylee, or who had access to her car, or who spent time at her family home. It has also not been proven whatsoever that she had any motive to kill Caylee. All the witnesses, both old and new friends, stated that KC loved Caylee, had a completely normal loving attachment to Caylee, and would never harm Caylee.

[Respectfully snipped for space]

OTOH.....

TL says KC stayed with him from June 10 until June 16. TL told investigators that KC was not in a panic, not searching for her daughter. She spent that night with him.