Breaking News Archive - 20th - 26th Aug

[panthera]

Could someone please tell me exactly what Bologna is exactly. I have wondered all my life. I know it is a cold meat that goes in a sandwich but what kinda meat is it etc. I just HAVE to know.

It is a processed meat for sandwiches, sometimes made from beef or turkey, but most commonly a mixture. Basically the same as a hot dog, only round and flat!

 

[kayebee]

I thought the picture of Karr's kids for X-mas 1996 was taken at Karr's father's house??????

There is NO way I would go to the in-law's WITHOUT my husband. Ick!!Impossible!

Karr's father lived a ways away too. What wife would drive to her in-laws, without her husband and with three little kids in the car?

Agreed--my husband and I were talking about this at dinner, and how we fight every year about where to spend Christmas, with his family or mine. There's no way I would spend Christmas with my in laws without my husband--it makes no sense. If he weren't there, I would be with my family.

Karen

 

[panthera]

A little Shrek is on the way!!!

What? How could that be? I thought she and PVZ were....

 

[aussiesheila]

Correct Buzz. Samples of Karr's handwriting in 1996 will be highly sought BY BOTH SIDES. Again, remember that if 1996 handwriting samples of Karr are as compelling as his 1982 year-book, that alone will serve to place him in Boulder and corroborate his confession.

The D.A.'s office removed Karr from California far ahead of the ten days provided for by law . It appears to me that Mary Lacy has a timed evidentiary plan going on in her mind.

Interestingly, on August 23rd, the D.A.'s office said the public interest would be served by keeping secret the affidavit for the arrest warrant for "at least a 15 days".

http://www.courts.state.co.us/docs/daresponse.pdf

Further, the D.A.s office said: "We realize that witnesses may have already been exposed to much information about Mr. Karr, some accurate and some not, that has been discovered and published by the media. But we do not think it appropriate at this stage for the information from our investigatory efforts that is in the affidavit to be added to what is being published already."

Given that statement and given the high degree of skepticism expressed about Karr being the murderer, if the alleged incriminating information in the affidavit were to, in fact, have been in the public domain, Mary Lacy would likely voted out of office.

I consider two historical aspects to strongly favor the information in the affidavit being true. First, Mary Lacy has been long been a major part of this high-profile case; she is anything but a Johnny-come-lately to the case. Second, before approving Karr's arrest warrant, the Judge would have almost certainly asked the D.A's team if they had performed a thorough research of case information that exists in the public domain, for nobody in Boulder wants to join the BPD as an object of national ridicule or lose their job as happened to many prior members of the BPD.

I think JMK is fantasising and I am sure his DNA won't match because I don't think he was there and his handwriting won't match because I don't think he wrote the note.

BUT.... apparently he does know some very significant details about the murder scene and that is the important thing. We will probably not know for a very long time just what he does know, but I think if the authorites can find out HOW he knows and can extract more information from him, information that will enable them to arrest the other pedophiles who I believe WERE there, then hopefully there will be a resolution of this case.

 

[julianne]

I think he said that he did report it when he first heard JonBenet went missing.

ETA: I'm sorry not missing, murdered.

MrsMush, you're right. Everyone is questioning how he would remember this 10 years later, but in reading the link, it clearly says that he reported this to LE after hearing about JonBenet being murdered. So, not only would a really creepy guy stand out to ME 10 years later, but certainly if I had called him in as a possible tip in a huge murder investigation, I would CERTAINLY remember him that much more.

 

[Wudge]

Wudge, sans a DNA match, I think there will have to be evidence that Karr was actually in Denver during Dec. 25th/26th, 1996, in order for him to be convicted. With Tracey having a close relationship with one of the investigating officers, that leaves at least a possiibility that unreleased information, on the case, was leaked by that officer to Tracey. This case is extremely interesting because of all of the possiibilities it contains. It remains to be seen if D.A. Mary Lacy actually has all of her ducks in a row on this one.

Whether from a macro-level analyses or a micro-level analyses or both, if there are a large number of unique markers, handwriting comparatives can be very compelling evidence to a jury. Its persuasive value is high, because everybody relates to it and understands it.

Right now, all the assessments we've heard about are macro-level handwriting assessments made by examination of copies of the real documents. As best we know, no micro-level analyses (tells only seen under magnification) have yet been performed by experts on the actual documents.

Yesterday, along with a few other people, I examined enlargements -- the way a jury would be likely to have court exhibits presented to them -- of the handwriting comparatives we have been discussing. No one yet knows if any comparative analyses of Karr's 1996 handwriting samples or micro-level examination of the actual source documents has been performed -- both analyses are likely underway or yet to come. However, for me, yesterday made clear why some experts say there are more than a few a unique markers that cause them to consider Karr to be a high-probability candidate.

Regarding Tracey, some websleuth posters are enamored with casting him in a bad light, and there are reasons to look hard at him, but there are some personal motives that come into play here as well. Notwithstanding both truths, if facts were leaked to Tracey and also contained in the affidavit for the arrest warrant and, in turn, Tracey told Karr about them, then, obviously, that could invalidate their alleged incriminating value. For Karr could be said to simply have been in a feedback mode prompted by LE. Moreover, that would also raise numerous due process issues.

Further, if that were true, it could rank as the dumbest case blunder yet out of either BPD or Boulder D.A.'s office, which is really saying something, because JonBenet's case has a history of true incompetents working on it.

On an entirely separate topic, in October, 1996, JonBenet is said elsewhere to have possibly participated in a beauty pageant in Atlanta. However, I've looked but can't find corroboration. Anyone?

 

[julianne]

Regarding Tracey, some websleuth posters are enamored with casting him in a bad light, and there are reasons to look hard at him, but there are some personal motives that come into play here as well.

That was a great post, Wudge!

You're right when you point out that certain WS'ers are enamored with trashing Tracey. Also right when you say there are reasons to look hard at him. I've often thought that there indeed ARE personal motives regarding the character assassination of Tracey....it's gotten pretty obvious at this point. Just curious, what do you think those personal motives are? If you are comfortable in posting your thoughts on this....

 

[scandi]

OMG - What if it isn't HERS? Carry on now...haven't been feeling well myself of late. :slap:

So you might have a little bun in the oven Gidgette? Carry on! :dance:

PS: That movie was from my high school days and I always loved the name. But I like the way you spell it ~ c'est Francaise



Scandi

 

[scandi]

Hi Wudge,

It was the Sunburst pageant in Atlanta.

http://www.modelsearchcontest.com/


Scandi

 

[Wudge]

That was a great post, Wudge!

You're right when you point out that certain WS'ers are enamored with trashing Tracey. Also right when you say there are reasons to look hard at him. I've often thought that there indeed ARE personal motives regarding the character assassination of Tracey....it's gotten pretty obvious at this point. Just curious, what do you think those personal motives are? If you are comfortable in posting your thoughts on this....

In my mind, more than anything else, Tracey appears to serve as a red herring for a bigger problem. That bigger problem being that across the nation ten years ago, many people dropped our presumption of innocence standard and sold themselves on the idea that one or more of the Ramseys murdered Jon Benet. And they did this using: assumptions, selective facts, behavioral tea-leaf reading, false premises, fallacious logic, rumor, innuendo, etc..

However, as regards the Ramseys murdering JonBenet, a Grand Jury was unable to find the existence of even probable cause, much less the idea that proof beyond a reasonable doubt existed.

More than once, my Dad told me: Make sure you don't sell bum ideas to yourself, there are no good paths from that point on.

When people drop the presumption of innocence standard and forge ahead to a conclusion not supported by relevant and reliable evidence/facts tested and proven during the course of a trial, they set themselves up for the "bum idea" trap. To me, letting go of the presumption of innocence standard is like taking illegal drugs, nothing good comes from doing either, nothing.

 

[Wudge]

Hi Wudge,

It was the Sunburst pageant in Atlanta.

http://www.modelsearchcontest.com/


Scandi

Hey Scandi, thanks a bunch. So that is true.

I find that interesting because of the proximity of Atlanta to Karr's home -- Atlanta bing much closer than Boulder.

ETA: Still looking for JonBenet, but can't find her?

 

[Anngelique]

Could someone please tell me exactly what Bologna is exactly. I have wondered all my life. I know it is a cold meat that goes in a sandwich but what kinda meat is it etc. I just HAVE to know.

I don't think anyone in the world quite knows what goes into bologna but the makers of bologna. To be honest I think it's safer that way. Truly.... we DON'T want to know!

 

[scandi]

Hi JDB,

I did find a link to the length of time investigators from America tailed Karr in Thailand:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1852198,00.html

Snip" . . Gen Suwat said Mr Karr was arrested on a US federal warrant and in the presence of US officers. "We arrested him yesterday at an apartment not far from my office after having followed him for 21 days," he said. Other officers said Mr Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called the Blooms in a lower-middle-class neighbourhood frequented by long-term travellers.

They said he arrived in Thailand from Penang, Malaysia, on June 6 and had been looking for work at one of Bangkok's numerous international schools but it was unclear whether he had found a job."

Killed two birds with one stone ;}




Scandi

 

[scandi]

Hi Wudge,

This has the date in October for the Sunburst Pageant:

http://www.acandyrose.com/timeline-transcripts1996before.htm

Snip
"1995-10-00 (--) JonBenet "Little Miss Colorado Sunburst" 5 yrs old (DOI pg59)


Scandi

 

[TexMex]

Whether from a macro-level analyses or a micro-level analyses or both, if there are a large number of unique markers, handwriting comparatives can be very compelling evidence to a jury. Its persuasive value is high, because everybody relates to it and understands it.

Right now, all the assessments we've heard about are macro-level handwriting assessments made by examination of copies of the real documents. As best we know, no micro-level analyses (tells only seen under magnification) have yet been performed by experts on the actual documents.

Yesterday, along with a few other people, I examined enlargements -- the way a jury would be likely to have court exhibits presented to them -- of the handwriting comparatives we have been discussing. No one yet knows if any comparative analyses of Karr's 1996 handwriting samples or micro-level examination of the actual source documents has been performed -- both analyses are likely underway or yet to come. However, for me, yesterday made clear why some experts say there are more than a few a unique markers that cause them to consider Karr to be a high-probability candidate.

Regarding Tracey, some websleuth posters are enamored with casting him in a bad light, and there are reasons to look hard at him, but there are some personal motives that come into play here as well. Notwithstanding both truths, if facts were leaked to Tracey and also contained in the affidavit for the arrest warrant and, in turn, Tracey told Karr about them, then, obviously, that could invalidate their alleged incriminating value. For Karr could be said to simply have been in a feedback mode prompted by LE. Moreover, that would also raise numerous due process issues.

Further, if that were true, it could rank as the dumbest case blunder yet out of either BPD or Boulder D.A.'s office, which is really saying something, because JonBenet's case has a history of true incompetents working on it.

On an entirely separate topic, in October, 1996, JonBenet is said elsewhere to have possibly participated in a beauty pageant in Atlanta. However, I've looked but can't find corroboration. Anyone?

Hi Wudge


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/25/lkl.01.html

KING: Dr. Kobilinsky, how much do you put into handwriting analysis if that comes up?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I'll tell you, Larry, handwriting analysis is accepted across the country in every court but being that said you have to understand it's not the same thing as DNA. And I think the reliability strongly depends on the capabilities of the expert of the analyst and what his training is and what kind of information he's looking at.

For example, looking at a yearbook that may have been 20, 25 years old, looking at that writing and comparing it to the ransom note, which was about nine and a half years old, you know, people's handwriting changes. It changes over time. So, you really have to have writing contemporaneous with the document that you're looking at.

But despite that, I have looked at these two documents myself. I have found a number of, a significant number of similarities with some very unusual letters and I've looked at the geometry and it seems to me I would say it's more likely than not that Mr. Karr was the author of that note. Again, I'm not a handwriting expert but I, you know, using various methods that's the way it looks to me.

 

[panthera]

They said he arrived in Thailand from Penang, Malaysia, on June 6 and had been looking for work at one of Bangkok's numerous international schools but it was unclear whether he had found a job."

Scandi

I'm still trying to figure out how he paid for travel or to support himself. His work was only sporadic. And not much better while here in the U.S., however driving a DeLorean.

 

[blonde1]

I....

However, as regards the Ramseys murdering JonBenet, a Grand Jury was unable to find the existence of even probable cause, much less the idea that proof beyond a reasonable doubt existed.

When people drop the presumption of innocence standard and forge ahead to a conclusion not supported by relevant and reliable evidence/facts tested and proven during the course of a trial, they set themselves up for the "bum idea" trap. To me, letting go of the presumption of innocence standard is like taking illegal drugs, nothing good comes from doing either, nothing.

The jury is most grand for the party that's exonerated. Like the media, they do try to be objective, but they're still a group of human beings.
Presumption of innocence protects, since even grand juries can be swayed by wealth and status on one hand, or by prejudice on the other.
Don't most of us have stories of people wronged, not by evil intentions on the part of jury, grand or otherwise, but by simple personal shortcomings within the group?
I had to testify before a grand jury regarding an extremely wealthy pervert who had sexually abused both his daughters and a close friend of mine for nearly 10 years -- his own daughters testified too, in detail. Didn't matter, no trial. Later, his wife was kidnapped in a mall parking lot and murdered. He's still out there, doing who knows what.
Just went through an assault trial with a friend -- wife knocked him with both hands, full force against a counter corner, he had the gash to prove it, he put his hands on her shoulders to steady himself and calm her down, she ran, called police, claimed he grabbed her, not a mark on her - he went to jail. He's black, she's white.
Anything's possible -- it's a good justice system, but mistakes are made.

 

[blonde1]

...

But despite that, I have looked at these two documents myself. I have found a number of, a significant number of similarities with some very unusual letters and I've looked at the geometry and it seems to me I would say it's more likely than not that Mr. Karr was the author of that note. Again, I'm not a handwriting expert but I, you know, using various methods that's the way it looks to me.

At least if it was Karr and he was drunk or high or both we'd have an explanation for the rambling nonsense kookiness of the note -- that's a major sticking point for me, since I can't see her brother or parents penning that thing.

 

[Details]

MSNBC--letter says Karr's brother clears Karr-says thanks for a great time at Christmas

Would that place him at the one of the two families houses that is closer to the Ramsey's house?

 

[aussiesheila]

That was a great post, Wudge!

You're right when you point out that certain WS'ers are enamored with trashing Tracey. Also right when you say there are reasons to look hard at him. I've often thought that there indeed ARE personal motives regarding the character assassination of Tracey....it's gotten pretty obvious at this point.

I agree with you Wudge and julianne. Not having seen any of his documentaries just going on what I have heard, it seems very likely to me that Tracey was sloppy in the production of his first documentary and his investigation or non-investigation of SG. Having said that, I do not think that you can necesssarily discount everything else he says and theorizes in his documentaries. Don't wish to say anymore.