Burke Files 150 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against Werner Sptiz???

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Wow, that's weird. Sorry if this has been resolved, still catching up on the thread.

I don't see those episodes listed on soundcloud OR iTunes. I have all the episodes (36 - 40) saved as podcasts in iTunes so they aren't completely gone. But that is strange.

Is this the program where the next program was to discuss the sexual assault of JonBenét ? I only found this on Websleuths recently and listened to the one linked as most recent. If I am not mistaken wasn't Jim Clemente going to talk sexual abuse?
 
And what's the reason for not explaining to their listeners why they did what they did? There were threats of litigation before they put those podcasts out - why take them down now? And why were the future shows canceled? "Due to circumstances beyond our control... " is not an explanation. What circumstances?

I will just weigh in with an opinion- in episode 40 JC and LR were discussing a little information shared by FW and PW. The host stated that she was not sure they should be sharing private conversations and JC sort of blew off the comments and said it was okay to share. Perhaps the White's were against this and the podcast was planning on digging deeper. In light of WS's litigation perhaps an agreement was reached with CBS's and WS's attorneys and knowing LW publicly stated they were "next" made them want to put a stop on the discussion. I don't think there is any cynical reason for this but just a tough decision they needed to make for all parties. I have not heard that LW has filed with CBS and it's beyond the timeframe he publicly mentioned. Also, I have not read or found any updates on the status of WS's defense.
I would love to be updated but I personally doubt they took the podcasts down because they were actively being sued. One of us would have seen that MSM report by now. Remember JC and LR are intelligent and likely reacted proactively.


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I will just weigh in with an opinion- in episode 40 JC and LR were discussing a little information shared by FW and PW. The host stated that she was not sure they should be sharing private conversations and JC sort of blew off the comments and said it was okay to share. Perhaps the White's were against this and the podcast was planning on digging deeper. In light of WS's litigation perhaps an agreement was reached with CBS's and WS's attorneys and knowing LW publicly stated they were "next" made them want to put a stop on the discussion. I don't think there is any cynical reason for this but just a tough decision they needed to make for all parties. I have not heard that LW has filed with CBS and it's beyond the timeframe he publicly mentioned. Also, I have not read or found any updates on the status of WS's defense.
I would love to be updated but I personally doubt they took the podcasts down because they were actively being sued. One of us would have seen that MSM report by now. Remember JC and LR are intelligent and likely reacted proactively.


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I don't think they took the podcasts down by choice - no no. I think they gave us a hint with "Due to circumstances beyond our control... "

It certainly couldn't have come to them as a surprise that Lin Wood would be suing CBS and others over their BDI broadcast. He publically warned them before, during and after the broadcast! Never-the-less, they Real Crime Profile went ahead and put out 4 more episodes going into more detail and rubbing in their BDI theory - which is fine if you're willing to defend your position knowing perfectly well that it's going to be challenged. As it stands, I think Lin Wood has been effective in knocking the wind out of their credibility. They look pretty lame to me for not giving some explanation to their listeners about what happened and just trying to continue on as if nothing happened. Sadly, I think they overplayed their hand - they just didn't have the evidence to support their theory of what happened. They certainly made me more appreciative of how skilled Kolar was at presenting evidence without going into details of a theory he couldn't back up.
 
I don't think they took the podcasts down by choice - no no. I think they gave us a hint with "Due to circumstances beyond our control... "

It certainly couldn't have come to them as a surprise that Lin Wood would be suing CBS and others over their BDI broadcast. He publically warned them before, during and after the broadcast! Never-the-less, they Real Crime Profile went ahead and put out 4 more episodes going into more detail and rubbing in their BDI theory - which is fine if you're willing to defend your position knowing perfectly well that it's going to be challenged. As it stands, I think Lin Wood has been effective in knocking the wind out of their credibility. They look pretty lame to me for not giving some explanation to their listeners about what happened and just trying to continue on as if nothing happened. Sadly, I think they overplayed their hand - they just didn't have the evidence to support their theory of what happened. They certainly made me more appreciative of how skilled Kolar was at presenting evidence without going into details of a theory he couldn't back up.

Appreciate your opinion but I do not agree with your thoughts. I think they stand behind their theory after doing all the research and talking with FW and PW. I think they proactively and likely with legal counsel decided it wasn't worth delving deeper with the public in light of Woody's trigger finger. CBS's documentary was incredible and barring no eye witness testimony to exact events- I think they are the closest to solving this case. I think they came to a sound theory/conclusion they still believe in but cannot talk about it publicly per counsel not doubt.
MOO


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I don't think they took the podcasts down by choice - no no. I think they gave us a hint with "Due to circumstances beyond our control... "

It certainly couldn't have come to them as a surprise that Lin Wood would be suing CBS and others over their BDI broadcast. He publically warned them before, during and after the broadcast! Never-the-less, they Real Crime Profile went ahead and put out 4 more episodes going into more detail and rubbing in their BDI theory - which is fine if you're willing to defend your position knowing perfectly well that it's going to be challenged. As it stands, I think Lin Wood has been effective in knocking the wind out of their credibility. They look pretty lame to me for not giving some explanation to their listeners about what happened and just trying to continue on as if nothing happened. Sadly, I think they overplayed their hand - they just didn't have the evidence to support their theory of what happened. They certainly made me more appreciative of how skilled Kolar was at presenting evidence without going into details of a theory he couldn't back up.

johnjay,
We will find out soon enough if they overplayed their hand. "Due to circumstances beyond our control " is patently the risk of further litigation, given Spitz was sued.

Its not that LW is right and the Real Crime Profile are fabricating theories, its the cost of defending those individual cases, it would bankrupt RCP, just as Gawker was shut down.

The CBS 3rd episode must had something important in it for JR and LW to tell BR you are doing Dr Phil and you will say you went back downstairs after we all went to bed.

So looks to me as if both the Real Crime Profile and CBS had some dirt on BR?

.
 
Appreciate your opinion but I do not agree with your thoughts. I think they stand behind their theory after doing all the research and talking with FW and PW. I think they proactively and likely with legal counsel decided it wasn't worth delving deeper with the public in light of Woody's trigger finger. CBS's documentary was incredible and barring no eye witness testimony to exact events- I think they are the closest to solving this case. I think they came to a sound theory/conclusion they still believe in but cannot talk about it publicly per counsel not doubt.
MOO


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If that's how they proceeded then they're not very competent because they had every reason to know that Lin Woods was planning on suing CBS and the people involved if they put out a BDI theory yet they proceeded to dive deeper into that theory on 4 Real Crime Profile podcasts. Taking those podcasts down does not undo whatever damage Lin Wood and the Ramsey's may perceive they did. And taking them down certainly doesn't prevent a law suit against Real Crime Profile or the individuals involved. Why didn't the folks at Real Crime Profile get competent legal advice before they put out the 4 podcasts that they later disappeared - without explanation?
 
johnjay,
We will find out soon enough if they overplayed their hand. "Due to circumstances beyond our control " is patently the risk of further litigation, given Spitz was sued.

That's an interpretation - not a fact. "Due to circumstances beyond our control" means you have no control - i.e. the decision is out of your hands. So who's hands were controlling the circumstances? - we don't know. We do know that Lin Wood made it clear before, during, and after the CBS documentary that the Ramsey's would sue if Burke was accused. Are we to believe Jim and Laura thought he was bluffing? They put out long podcasts after the show, and I'm pretty sure some of these were after Spitz was sued.

Its not that LW is right and the Real Crime Profile are fabricating theories, its the cost of defending those individual cases, it would bankrupt RCP, just as Gawker was shut down.

And the brilliant minds at RCP only figured that out after they put out 4 post CBS episodes discussing JonBenet and their BDI theory?

The CBS 3rd episode must had something important in it for JR and LW to tell BR you are doing Dr Phil and you will say you went back downstairs after we all went to bed.

So looks to me as if both the Real Crime Profile and CBS had some dirt on BR?

.

It looks to me like they overplayed their hand, and if that's true, they deserve the coals Lin Wood is going to drag them over.
 
If that's how they proceeded then they're not very competent because they had every reason to know that Lin Woods was planning on suing CBS and the people involved if they put out a BDI theory yet they proceeded to dive deeper into that theory on 4 Real Crime Profile podcasts. Taking those podcasts down does not undo whatever damage Lin Wood and the Ramsey's may perceive they did. And taking them down certainly doesn't prevent a law suit against Real Crime Profile or the individuals involved. Why didn't the folks at Real Crime Profile get competent legal advice before they put out the 4 podcasts that they later disappeared - without explanation?
Hi johnjay,
I get what you're saying, and understand the points you're making- I just look at it from a different perspective. Firstly, I'm not a lawyer, and don't understand all the legalities. We also don't know what is really going on in that respect. As UkGuy says, maybe we will find out in time?

I'm disappointed, too, about the missing episodes, but I take it that they can't offer a public explanation. I don't see that as them being incompetent. I agree that they must have expected legal trouble from LW and the Ramseys, but I think they decided to go ahead and put their considered opinions and findings "out there" to the extent that they could, before being "silenced". I think they did this for 3 reasons: firstly, they always say on their podcasts that they try to give victims a voice, and it's the closest JB will ever get to some form of justice. Secondly, they wanted the public to know about their conclusions, as they believed in their findings. And thirdly, I think they were p*ssed off, like many of us, at the Ramseys controlling everything. For these reasons, I think they are genuine and well meaning- even brave- but this doesn't mean that they can afford, personally or financially, to go so far as to recklessly risk getting sued. The fact that LW is now suing Dr Werner Spitz indicates to me that the experts may have finally got close to the truth at last.

I don't think the CBS show covered everything, and I think they played it very safe (at least the parts we saw), but I think they did get the culprit (BR) correct. There is so much circumstantial evidence that backs that up. Personally, I'm amazed that I'm now BDI, as I spent years dismissing this, and focussing on JR and PR. In fact, it was actually recently seeing BR's interviews (both childhood and on Dr Phil, that convinced me, regardless of the CBS show, or podcasts).

Sorry this post is so long, but finally, I do see what you mean about certain aspects... It makes me a bit uncomfortable that the experts, JC, LR and the others, have so publically pointed the finger directly at BR, from the point of view that there is clearly never going to be a trial in this case. It therefore leaves them in the position of publically accusing him, when he can never be tried properly in a court of law, and either found guilty officially, or exonerated. Whether they are correct or not in their accusations, he doesn't have an opportunity to defend himself in court, and the matter will probably never be legally resolved. However, I do always end up thinking that, really, the Ramseys have brought this unfortunate situation on themselves.

Perhaps one of the most significant points that Jim Clementee has made, is that the Ramseys do not want this case to ever be solved. I think that's why it probably never will be. Jmo.
 
Hi johnjay,
I get what you're saying, and understand the points you're making- I just look at it from a different perspective. Firstly, I'm not a lawyer, and don't understand all the legalities. We also don't know what is really going on in that respect. As UkGuy says, maybe we will find out in time?

I'm disappointed, too, about the missing episodes, but I take it that they can't offer a public explanation. I don't see that as them being incompetent. I agree that they must have expected legal trouble from LW and the Ramseys, but I think they decided to go ahead and put their considered opinions and findings "out there" to the extent that they could, before being "silenced".

But what does "being silenced" mean? If they took those podcasts down because of a court order - well that would be "circumstances beyond their control." What happened the day that the episodes disappeared that didn't happen the week before?

I think they did this for 3 reasons: firstly, they always say on their podcasts that they try to give victims a voice, and it's the closest JB will ever get to some form of justice.

Albeit vigilante justice.

Secondly, they wanted the public to know about their conclusions, as they believed in their findings.

CBS already did that, I don't remember any important new revelations in those extra podcasts that they later took down.

And thirdly, I think they were p*ssed off, like many of us, at the Ramseys controlling everything.

Maybe - how did that work out for them? It sounds to me like the Ramsey's are still in control.

For these reasons, I think they are genuine and well meaning- even brave- but this doesn't mean that they can afford, personally or financially, to go so far as to recklessly risk getting sued.

That train has left the station. Whatever damage they did to Burke with their podcast doesn't just go away because they took them down. They already took the risk for those podcasts, I can't imagine they did so without assessing the risk - if that's the case then they're just not worth listening too. And Lin Wood was not shy about making it perfectly clear to the world how the Ramsey's would proceed. And when you add that RCP and those involved are doing this for profit - well they better be on firm ground when they accuse someone of killing their sister.

The fact that LW is now suing Dr Werner Spitz indicates to me that the experts may have finally got close to the truth at last.

At least as close as the National Enquirer.

I don't think the CBS show covered everything, and I think they played it very safe (at least the parts we saw), but I think they did get the culprit (BR) correct.

Maybe they played it safe. If I was on the lawsuit jury I think I would find the story they gave unbelievable. Burke hit his sister over the head with tremendous force - as demonstrated by CBS over a piece of pineapple and then his parents instead of calling an ambulance tightened a cord around her neck - that's the picture they painted- you call it very safe - I call it a made up fantasy. (And I think BDI - but I know that's just my fantasy about what happened.)

There is so much circumstantial evidence that backs that up. Personally, I'm amazed that I'm now BDI, as I spent years dismissing this, and focussing on JR and PR. In fact, it was actually recently seeing BR's interviews (both childhood and on Dr Phil, that convinced me, regardless of the CBS show, or podcasts).

Sorry this post is so long, but finally, I do see what you mean about certain aspects... It makes me a bit uncomfortable that the experts, JC, LR and the others, have so publically pointed the finger directly at BR, from the point of view that there is clearly never going to be a trial in this case. It therefore leaves them in the position of publically accusing him, when he can never be tried properly in a court of law, and either found guilty officially, or exonerated. Whether they are correct or not in their accusations, he doesn't have an opportunity to defend himself in court, and the matter will probably never be legally resolved. However, I do always end up thinking that, really, the Ramseys have brought this unfortunate situation on themselves.

Well he may have a chance to defend himself and he may collect big time on their attempt to take justice in their own hands.

Perhaps one of the most significant points that Jim Clementee has made, is that the Ramseys do not want this case to ever be solved. I think that's why it probably never will be. Jmo.

Jim doesn't seem to be saying much of anything about the Ramsey's these days.
 
johnjay,
We will find out soon enough if they overplayed their hand. "Due to circumstances beyond our control " is patently the risk of further litigation, given Spitz was sued.

Its not that LW is right and the Real Crime Profile are fabricating theories, its the cost of defending those individual cases, it would bankrupt RCP, just as Gawker was shut down.

The CBS 3rd episode must had something important in it for JR and LW to tell BR you are doing Dr Phil and you will say you went back downstairs after we all went to bed.

So looks to me as if both the Real Crime Profile and CBS had some dirt on BR?

.
I think he (BR) needed to answer for the pinapple and milk bowl. His fingerprints on it plus that was one of his favorite treats as BR said in the interview with the psychologist. BR stating he did go downstairs is really no big deal even though it was stated he was in bed the whole night. BR didn't "lie" as he didn't testify and it could be said Mom and Dad had no clue he went downstairs.

I am disppointed the CBS doc didn't delve into the noose or
the sexual abuse. In my mind, they gave BR an out by calling the gash on the head, an accident. I don't see how Clemente goes back now and changes that "finding."

I wonder if other boys in the neighborhood knew about the sexual "explorations" of JB and even participated in them. I wonder if she was being "pimped" out so to speak to become more popular or because BR disliked her so much.

This is all speculation on my part.

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I just re-read the retraction demand on CBS and he gave them until 10/26 to retract their statements/assertions. Well...we shall see what happens next, if anything. If LW does not file a defamation against CBS- may offer insight into the status of the Werner Spitz claim. Patiently waiting.


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I just re-read the retraction demand on CBS and he gave them until 10/26 to retract their statements/assertions. Well...we shall see what happens next, if anything. If LW does not file a defamation against CBS- may offer insight into the status of the Werner Spitz claim. Patiently waiting.


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Well I haven't seen any retractions from CBS that would meet with Lin Wood's demands. And if RCP received a similar notice then taking down their podcasts wouldn't come close to the type of retraction Lin Wood is asking for.
 
If that's how they proceeded then they're not very competent because they had every reason to know that Lin Woods was planning on suing CBS and the people involved if they put out a BDI theory yet they proceeded to dive deeper into that theory on 4 Real Crime Profile podcasts. Taking those podcasts down does not undo whatever damage Lin Wood and the Ramsey's may perceive they did. And taking them down certainly doesn't prevent a law suit against Real Crime Profile or the individuals involved. Why didn't the folks at Real Crime Profile get competent legal advice before they put out the 4 podcasts that they later disappeared - without explanation?
IMHO.
Maybe they wanted it out there at least to get the truth forced out. They know LW and the Ramsey's love to sue. Maybe THIS time however, they have their ducks in a row and
the Ramsey's are being led to slaughter sorta speak. This may have been a trap. I have a strong feeling that things are playing out exactly how CBS and the group of experts want it to play out. This time however, there will be no settling out of court. MAKE them prove they didn't kill JonBenet. It's time for them to start realizing no one is buying their excuses any more. Burke is an adult and if he wants to play with the big dogs well.... sometimes those big dogs have a big bite. I think CBS has the evidence they need to prove it now. See, I feel like the experts have always wanted to get the truth out. There's new people working the case and they want this horrible tragedy to have a conclusion. Whether it is in the civil court or court of public opinion. It's time to take responsibility for what occurred to little JonBenet. Stop the lying and covering and tell the truth.
Remember, CBS held back 2 hours worth of the show. The episodes were very intense and was very little fluff. So I can only imagine the last 2 hours is where the full truth lies. They are leading the Ramsey's and LW to slaughter and I will personally cheer for JonBenet when it does get finalized. This story deserves to be told and JonBenet deserves justice. If she died at the hands of her own family members, then the story needs to be told. I have no sympathy for the Ramsey's. At all. They have blocked justice for JonBenet since the 911 call. No parent who is truly innocent would do that. No matter what the LE thinks. If they are innocent the evidence would show it. Think about how many people they have thrown under the bus and sued and threatened. THAT is not okay. THAT should not be allowed. Meanwhile they lawyer up and refuse to interview with the police. Then get on TV and lie through their teeth about being cooperative. THAT is not right. That is not okay. They are the exact reason JonBenet hasn't received justice. It's a damn shame that strangers care for her receiving justice more than they do.
I seriously think that the Ramsey's are being led to sue CBS. They don't realize it quite yet but the Ramsey's are about to have mud on their faces. I have a feeling that Spitz isn't going to back down and CBS won't either. Their lawyers I'm sure made certain that the ducks were in a row before proceeding. Just because we haven't been witness to all of the evidence quite yet, doesn't mean it isn't there and about to get brought out. Maybe just maybe.... the LE that are in charge now are helping solve this case. JMOO of course but I have a good feeling about this. I think it's about to be all brought out in the open. I think the Ramsey's bit the wrong dogs this time. I want to see that smirk wiped off of BR face.
GRRRR. Just gets my feathers ruffled thinking about how this sweet child's life was taken and no one has been brought to justice. It's not okay. Children who are victims of crimes deserve to have justice. They are the most innocent.
*steps off soap box and takes deep breathes* :deepbreaths::deepbreaths::floorlaugh:
 
Well I haven't seen any retractions from CBS that would meet with Lin Wood's demands. And if RCP received a similar notice then taking down their podcasts wouldn't come close to the type of retraction Lin Wood is asking for.

This post topic thread, as far as I know, is not about RCP it's about BR vs. Werner Spitz. And a retraction will likely not be forthcoming.


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At some point.... every bully meets their match. I think imho LW and the Ramsey's have met their match. I want justice now but I'm sure we will have to be patient and wait to see how the cards fall. We've waited 20 years... a few more isn't going to hurt as long as the truth of what happened comes out. Surely the Ramsey's realize that this country isn't full of fools that will believe everything they say. Their story doesn't add up. Regardless of how many times they tell it and change it. It doesn't add up period. Their actions after the murder do not add up either. Enough is enough. LW is an idiot if he doesn't see that he is in over his head this time. I pray the truth comes out this time and we finally get to see an ending to this sad story.
 
I think he (BR) needed to answer for the pinapple and milk bowl. His fingerprints on it plus that was one of his favorite treats as BR said in the interview with the psychologist. BR stating he did go downstairs is really no big deal even though it was stated he was in bed the whole night. BR didn't "lie" as he didn't testify and it could be said Mom and Dad had no clue he went downstairs.

I am disppointed the CBS doc didn't delve into the noose or
the sexual abuse. In my mind, they gave BR an out by calling the gash on the head, an accident. I don't see how Clemente goes back now and changes that "finding."

I wonder if other boys in the neighborhood knew about the sexual "explorations" of JB and even participated in them. I wonder if she was being "pimped" out so to speak to become more popular or because BR disliked her so much.

This is all speculation on my part.

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Razz,
I think he (BR) needed to answer for the pinapple and milk bowl. His fingerprints on it plus that was one of his favorite treats as BR said in the interview with the psychologist. BR stating he did go downstairs is really no big deal even though it was stated he was in bed the whole night. BR didn't "lie" as he didn't testify and it could be said Mom and Dad had no clue he went downstairs.
BBM: Sure but the place to do that is in court, not on national TV. BR has put himself in the frame, since at the point he sneaks back downstairs, where is JonBenet, in her bedroom or down in the wine-cellar?

I am disppointed the CBS doc didn't delve into the noose or
the sexual abuse. In my mind, they gave BR an out by calling the gash on the head, an accident. I don't see how Clemente goes back now and changes that "finding."
I reckon they tweaked their theory to suit the TV audience, since the majority were never going to understand all the details.

Once JR leaves the planet Clemente and Kolar will be free to say what they want, as long as they don't slander BR's reputation. Kolar managed it in his book.

I was looking forward to the third episode, especially their opinions on the sexual assault via the Autopsy Report, particularly given they have BR as the prime suspect, what were they going to say, have they unearthed new evidence?

It can still be transmitted at a later date.

I wonder if other boys in the neighborhood knew about the sexual "explorations" of JB and even participated in them. I wonder if she was being "pimped" out so to speak to become more popular or because BR disliked her so much.
Well most of the evidence is circumstantial, but I reckon its a brother on sister case. BR had sleepovers in house and had his buddies over, maybe JonBenet got special play invites, who knows? JonBenet and BR slept in each others bedrooms, Linda Hoffman Pugh walked in on BR and JonBenet playing doctor, were they embarrassed, not at all, they told LHP to go away!

Some of the Ramsey friends were going to talk to Patsy about JonBenet after Christmas. Then the Stines and the Ramsey's became best buddies overnight with hubby being given a well paid job, and Susan Stine mailing out fake emails in defense of the Ramsey's.

The common link is Doug Stine, he was and still is friends with BR. Stuff happened that the R's have managed to get buried, I reckon Doug Stine knows where the skeletons are hidden away, and might just go on a talk show in the near future, for his 10-minutes of fame?

.
 
Speaking of sleepovers, Linda Wilcox said this:

And then, Burke, his friends were his world. He kind of lived in his own world. Basically he had this whole group of friends and they had sleepovers. JonBenet never had sleepovers. She slept at her friend's houses occasionally but it was never reciprocated. I thought that was kind of odd.

Why didn't she have any sleepovers?
 
Well most of the evidence is circumstantial, but I reckon its a brother on sister case. BR had sleepovers in house and had his buddies over, maybe JonBenet got special play invites, who knows? JonBenet and BR slept in each others bedrooms, Linda Hoffman Pugh walked in on BR and JonBenet playing doctor, were they embarrassed, not at all, they told LHP to go away!


.

I have seen this stated numerous times. Can anyone point me to the source of this information about BR and JBR playing doctor?
 
Some of the Ramsey friends were going to talk to Patsy about JonBenet after Christmas.
.

This weirds me out because if they were noticing something really bad, would they really make plans to wait a while, then discuss it? If you honestly think a child is in some kind of danger, it seems pretty awful to say "well it's the holidays so we'll just wait til that's over, then discuss whether their kid being abused or mistreated" Was it just pageant stuff they wanted to talk about? It had to be something relatively minor, IMO, otherwise you do it the day you realize.
 

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