Burlap and Forensics

[MrsWard84]

This is a thought that has come up while reading the posts, I'm new to the site and case so if this has been discussed I apologise.........as far as I can tell we do know for a fact that the bodies were in different stages of decomposition, indicating that they were killed and dumped at different times. We also know that there were significant time frames from the date of the women going missing to the date when their bodies were found. Do we know if there were any signs of 'breakdown' or 'decomposition' of the burlap??? After looking at a few sites (mainly gardening ones - they came up first after googling 'does burlap decompose') I have learned that burlap does decompose BUT it can take months and sometimes years for this to happen completely. Also the burlap would breakdown faster if it was underground rather than above ground (considering where the victims were found I assume the elements would add to this). If the bodies had been out there for such a long time, surely the burlap would not be in tact? Would LISK have known this due to his profession (working with burlap on a day-to-day basis)? Did he have a hobby that would have given him this knowledge (sorry if that sounds ridiculous)? If he did know this and the burlap was in tact and for the fact that a lot of people believe he revisited the bodies and place, did he recover his victims once the breakdown began to show??

I apologise if this seems like a silly question, but popped into my head while brainstorming........

 

[wfsltt]

That was not a silly question. Pretty much anyone that has worked with burlap is aware of how quickly it decomposes. My guess it that he uses it to prevent the collection of evidence. Plastic bags can last a very long time and anything contained in them would still be present to one degree or another. This is not so with burlap. This begs the question as to whether he used it because he is smart enough to think about this or did he use it because it was convenient?

If this person was smart enough to know to use the burlap to destroy evidence over time, then you most certainly have more than one killer dumping bodies. He or she would have been smart enough to know that double or triple wrapped burlap weighted would allow air in and prevent body parts from floating to shore. This would exclude body parts dumped in the water from being connected to those wrapped and placed.

I think people are getting hung up on the burlap and should be spending more time in other areas. It does make it hard without direct access to information and items collected though.

 

[wfsltt]

Not necessarily. I was looking for that piece of information, as it would (hopefully) show, that the soil underneath the burlap material may show signs of decomposition as well. How else would Dormer know, when the victims were dumped? The bodies could have decomposed somewhere else and LISK eventually moved and dumped them here - not.

-Nin

Burlap wrapped and a different kill and decay site would not go well together for many reasons.

 

[wfsltt]

So do we know if there is line of site from the big cities to the bodies? What about the cell phone call locations? Do we have line of site from any of these locations to the bodies?

 

[MrsWard84]

Thank you for the reply! It has cleared up a few things for me.

 

[Lanesmommy]

I read a very interesting and important piece of info about burlap in the maps thread. A poster over there found that burlap is used as a filter for sediments in mosquito ditches. And as many of us know, there were mosquito ditches located in very close proximity to the bodies. Perhaps this is simply coincidence or maybe it means LISK has knowledge and experience with the ditches. Could be a very viable conclusion.

 

[dotr]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1446872/Dust-to-dust-but-not-if-your-dearly-departed-is-buried-in-Germany.html

Nov 2003

It is spoken by the priest at countless funeral ceremonies, but the old adage of "dust to dust" apparently no longer applies in Germany.


At least 40 of the country's largest graveyards, including ones in Cologne, Munich and Kiel, are no longer usable as they are full to capacity with undecayed bodies. Similar problems are being reported in Austria and Switzerland.

"Bodies that were put into the ground 30 years ago look like they went in last week," said Walter Muller, an undertaker in Berlin. "It's like they've been pickled in preservatives and there is no explanation for it."

Werner Weinzierl and Frank Waldmann, geologists from the Baden-Wurttemberg council who have also been researching the problem, have suggested that using coffins made of pine would help, because they decompose more quickly than the harder oak used in many burials.

One local authority in North Rhine-Westphalia is considering a change to the law, to allow bodies to be buried in burlap or cotton sacking to speed up the process.

rbbm.

 

[ps149]

Guys, focusing on burlap as a fact of this case could be a downfall. Burlap is and ALWAYS was a RUMOUR! Even the reporter who started this rumour only stated that ONE of the victims was reportedly wrapped in burlap. Everyone here and the rest of the media has escalated this rumour and made it into a false fact of this case.

Don't believe me???

PROVE IT,

Show me where it was first mentioned about burlap.

Show me where LE ever stated anything about burlap.

Show me where it was first stated that ALL of the GB$ victims were wrapped in burlap.

RUMOURS RUMOURS RUMOURS = poor investigation.

 

[observation]

Guys, focusing on burlap as a fact of this case could be a downfall. Burlap is and ALWAYS was a RUMOUR! Even the reporter who started this rumour only stated that ONE of the victims was reportedly wrapped in burlap. Everyone here and the rest of the media has escalated this rumour and made it into a false fact of this case.

Don't believe me???

PROVE IT,

Show me where it was first mentioned about burlap.

Show me where LE ever stated anything about burlap.

Show me where it was first stated that ALL of the GB$ victims were wrapped in burlap.

RUMOURS RUMOURS RUMOURS = poor investigation.

After TKS episode 3 and 4, Tricia interviewed Josh and Rachel. IIRC, Josh said the burlap is relevant. I highly respect their research and transparency.
Prove it??
Check out the interview with some key players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[observation]

After TKS episode 3 and 4, Tricia interviewed Josh and Rachel. IIRC, Josh said the burlap is relevant. I highly respect their research and transparency in this complex case. There are as close to this case as one can possibly get unless your LISK or linked to LISK in some known way.
Prove it? Don't know if this is proof but have a listen to websleuths radio with Tricia.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[relay]

Guys, focusing on burlap as a fact of this case could be a downfall. Burlap is and ALWAYS was a RUMOUR! Even the reporter who started this rumour only stated that ONE of the victims was reportedly wrapped in burlap. Everyone here and the rest of the media has escalated this rumour and made it into a false fact of this case.

Don't believe me???

PROVE IT,

Show me where it was first mentioned about burlap.

Show me where LE ever stated anything about burlap.

Show me where it was first stated that ALL of the GB$ victims were wrapped in burlap.

RUMOURS RUMOURS RUMOURS = poor investigation.

Excellent question, and although generally innocently generated, rumors, speculation that lacks hard evidence to back it up, and the telephone game syndrome results in wasted energy and can lead folks down a false path. Case in point: The GB4 were not placed 500 feet apart. Despite our wonderful "No it's not" providing detailed maps of the placements of the GB4 including the precise distances between each victim, the rumor persists. Thank goodness our "Seaslug" just started a thread that will hopefully quash the 500 feet idea.

 

[Corpsetennant]

Why do they have a recording of the guy who called the sister of the victims. If so they could do voice analysis of john foley , see if it's a match.

 

[dotr]

http://nypost.com/2015/01/03/4-years-17-victims-later-police-cant-catch-the-gilgo-beach-killer/
January 3, 2015

It was a bitterly cold afternoon four years ago when a Suffolk County cop’s German shepherd sniffed out the skeletal corpse of Melissa Barthelemy, 24, a Bronx prostitute who had vanished a year and a half earlier.

The cop had been looking for a different woman, but the dog’s discovery of Barthelemy’s body in a crumbling burlap sack amid the thorny underbrush off Ocean Parkway in Gilgo Beach, Long Island, exposed something unexpected.

Within days of unearthing Barthelemy’s remains, police found the bodies of three more young call girls who booked appointments on Craigslist and went missing between 2007 and 2010: Brainard-Barnes, 25; Megan Waterman, 22; and Amber Lynn Costello, 27.
Each had been strangled elsewhere, wedged into burlap and dumped amid thick scrub just off the sand-swept causeway on the inlet side of Gilgo in the town of Babylon.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-victims-dismembered/story?id=13354893

According to ABC News sources the first four bodies discovered, now badly decomposed, were wrapped in burlap and were prostitutes who advertised on Craigslist.

"Apparently the first four were found in burlap bags, that could be a possible lead. The connection between how the victim met the bad guy is extremely important. In other words, did he call them all to a particular hotel in Long Island?" said Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI investigator.

rbbm.

 

[relay]

http://nypost.com/2015/01/03/4-years-17-victims-later-police-cant-catch-the-gilgo-beach-killer/
January 3, 2015




http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-victims-dismembered/story?id=13354893

rbbm.

Thank you, dotr! I now consider this fact, although I am also thankful for ps149's post which may help posters to keep ever mindful to discern between fact and speculation, reduce unfounded rumors, and to not inadvertently playing the telephone game .

 

[OnAccountOfRabies]

Good finding. I have seen this where I live it's all along our walking trail. As well, Burlap was used in ancient customs like mentioned above "Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust" Burlap is a symbol of Repentance in Christianity and Burial. I feel he wanted his Victims to repent their lifestyles profession.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Guys, focusing on burlap as a fact of this case could be a downfall. Burlap is and ALWAYS was a RUMOUR! Even the reporter who started this rumour only stated that ONE of the victims was reportedly wrapped in burlap. Everyone here and the rest of the media has escalated this rumour and made it into a false fact of this case.

Don't believe me???

PROVE IT,

Show me where it was first mentioned about burlap.

Show me where LE ever stated anything about burlap.

Show me where it was first stated that ALL of the GB$ victims were wrapped in burlap.

RUMOURS RUMOURS RUMOURS = poor investigation.

http://nypost.com/2010/12/15/craigslist-murder-rampage/
Two of the bodies were stuffed into burlap sacks.

 

[Aquariesque]

I believe LISK is a police officer from LI who works in or near the Queens districts. This officer is either deceased or no longer physically able to overcome his victims. I am continuing to uncover evidence that points to a cop. Much respect to the NYPD, sometimes we never truly know who is in our presence. I'm looking for an established thread that's dedicated to a cop as the killer, is there one on this site?

 

[JGJM]

I believe LISK is a police officer from LI who works in or near the Queens districts. This officer is either deceased or no longer physically able to overcome his victims. I am continuing to uncover evidence that points to a cop. Much respect to the NYPD, sometimes we never truly know who is in our presence. I'm looking for an established thread that's dedicated to a cop as the killer, is there one on this site?

Can you elaborate on why you believe LISK is a police officer from LI who works in or near Queens? I have similar suspicions that NYPD officer who lives in LI may be involved, specifically NYPD officer who has ties to rumored suspect.

 

[No it's not]

I believe LISK is a police officer from LI who works in or near the Queens districts. This officer is either deceased or no longer physically able to overcome his victims. I am continuing to uncover evidence that points to a cop. Much respect to the NYPD, sometimes we never truly know who is in our presence. I'm looking for an established thread that's dedicated to a cop as the killer, is there one on this site?

Don't want to hijack the thread, just mentioning there is also NYC park police present at the West end of Jones Beach Park ( Police Barracks).

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Could this be a piece of burlap seen in this video..?

Marker 0.42ff

[FONT=&amp]http://video.foxnews.com/v/4111716110001/

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/12/prostitute-found-dead-near-ny-serial-killers-dumping-ground-likely-murdered.html
[/URL][/FONT]