fedfan4life
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I'm guessing that's a Vermeer???
By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?
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s(he) be(lie)ve(d)
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Hey there johnjay, On Dr. Phil the first episode BR tells us that he received an electric train or that he peaked from the stairs Christmas morning and saw the train with another gift (the mystery bike to be exact. Kinda makes that train track theory a little more plausible Huh?
this is a good point johnjay!
the more i research all this stuff the clearer the picture.
PR and JR created then feed the monster......
lived then in denial......(before this horrific crime).....through the horrific loss of their beautiful sweet daughter....denial ......to this day.......denial denial denial!!!
that boys behavior has always been strange and ignored.
which no wonder he's troppo...look at what his parents justify away.......
burkey just didnt fit into PR perfect little picture.....so lets just pretend!
imo
So what changed?
Grand Jury heard from JonBenét's brother
The district attorney's office formally cleared Burke as a suspect in the crime last week, saying he never had been under suspicion in his sister's death.
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/52699crams.html
Grand Jury heard from JonBenét's brother
The district attorney's office formally cleared Burke as a suspect in the crime last week, saying he never had been under suspicion in his sister's death.
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/52699crams.html
Sorry, my quoting isn't working on my phone but re heymoms "cord doesn't tighten on its own" post - I was imagining it was caught on or tied to something, so as she moves it tightens (Side note, anyone have any idea why quoting isn't working on my iPhone?)
johnjay
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As I recall, on Dr. Phil he said he got a new bike that year - but he didn't. And I didn't see "new train" on the list of Christmas presents for the Ramsey family. Did he really get a new train? If he did that would explain some things. What kind of train did he get?
s(he) be(lie)ve(d)
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(ME) Starting at 15:16 (link at bottom) BR talks about both the train and bike. Did he think PRs bike was for him? Is that perhaps one of the things that set him off? For what its worth, Mr. Barnhill claimed to see BR riding his bike Christmas day. Was it a new bike,old bike or PRs?
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-neighbors-joe-betty-barnhill.htm
(SNIP)
"I didn't see a lot of people over there Christmas Day," said Barnhill, who had hidden until Christmas Eve the bicycle JonBenet's father had bought his daughter. "I didn't see JonBenet with her bike, but I did see (her 10-year-old brother) Burke ride his bike down the lawn there."
(ME)I don't think we have seen a complete list of the gifts given/received that Christmas. The list is way to short to account for all the gifts we see under that tree. Even JR has said, they got way to much stuff or something along those lines. Is there a list that shows the Micro Machine or the toy he and JR supposedly put together?
https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/09/...ramsey-americas-most-famous-cold-case-part-2/SEPTEMBER 23, 2016 /
JUROR13
(SNIP)JOHN: YEAH, CHRISTMAS EVE. WE’DGIVEN JONBENET A BIKE; WE GOT PATSY A BIKE. WE WERE GIVING BURKE A BIKE BUT NOT THAT YEAR.
(SNIP)FROM ACANDYROSE:
“THE KIDS SCREAMED AND CHEERED AS THEY REALIZED THAT SANTA HAD BROUGHT JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THEIR LISTS. JONBENET WANTED TO TAKE HER NEW BIKE OUTSIDE FOR A SPIN, BUT BURKE SUGGESTED, “LET’S GET ALL THE OTHER GIFTS OPENED FIRST.”
AH, THE WISE AND EXPERIENCED BIG BROTHER. JONBENET AGREED. THEY QUICKLY BUSIED THEMSELVES PLAYING SANTA’S ELVES AND DISTRIBUTING THE BEAUTIFULLY WRAPPED GIFTS. JONBENET ASKED FOR BURKE’S ASSISTANCE WITH THE NAME TAGS SINCE HE COULD READ AND SHE COULDN’T. IT WAS THE MOST FUN IN THE WORLD, DOLING OUT THE GIFTS AND SEEING WHOSE PILE WOULD BECOME THE BIGGEST.”ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE REFERENCE TO ONLY JONBENET GETTING A BIKE. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, JOHN MENTIONS BURKE’S REACTION TO JONBENET WANTING TO TAKE HER NEW TOY OUTSIDE – BURKE DIDN’T WANT TO DO THAT, HE WANTED TO STAY IN AND OPEN OTHER PRESENTS… PRESUMABLY, BECAUSE HE DIDN’T GET A BIKE TOO
.(SNIP)
JOHN: THE ONLY THING I REMEMBER IS GOING OVER TO JOE’S AND GETTING THE BIKE OUT OF HIS GARAGE. AND THEN AFTER PATSY WENT UPSTAIRS, I HAD HER BIKE IN OUR GARAGE AND I GOT THAT OUT AND PUT IT BY THE TREE. AND THEN I WENT UPSTAIRS.
[FONT=&]John is still crystal clear with his memory of only two bikes. He remembers exactly where they hid JonBenet’s, as well as Patsy’s, prior to Christmas day. If they had gotten a bike for Burke, wouldn’t they have hidden that at the Barnhill’s too?[/FONT][FONT=&]SMIT: So both bikes then were at the tree.
You just took the one from Joe Barnhill and put it by the tree?
[/FONT][FONT=&]JOHN: And brought Patsy’s in from the garage.
[/FONT](SNIP)
[FONT=&]A little bit later in the interview, Smit brings up Christmas day again. For some reason, John’s story suddenly changes. Unfortunately, Smit, being too smitten with John, doesn’t notice there’s now three bikes, not two.
[/FONT][FONT=&]From John Ramsey’s Interview with police in 1998:
[/FONT][FONT=&]SMIT: Do you remember kind of what the kids got? What she [JonBenet] got?
[/FONT][FONT=&]JOHN: Well JonBenet got a bike. I think Burke got a bike too. It seems like we had three bikes there. JonBenet, I think she got a little doll that was one of these look-a-like dolls that was supposed to look like her. I remember her looking at it and saying, this doesn’t look like me.
(SNIP)
JOHN: They always get so much stuff. I guess I don’t remember. It’s always kind of a little bit overloaded with so many things.
(ME)I believe he got a new train I don't think he got a bike. The fact that BR talks about how excited he was to see them. That he seemed to still be that excited over them 20 years later, says a lot I think. What is if any, the importance of these two gifts, that has BR smiling like the Cheshire cat?
(SNIP)
[/FONT][FONT=&]From Websleuths, from the Irish Times 1997:
[/FONT][FONT=&]“It would be heartbreaking if that family was involved. They worshipped her almost as if she were Jesus Christ. The parents are good Christian people. They’re members down at St John’s Episcopalian Church,” Mr Barnhill said, before he excused himself and went back to his mowing.
[/FONT][FONT=&]Fast forward 20 years, and Burke Ramsey just completed a series of interviews for Dr. Phil. One of the many questions asked was “did you get what you wanted for Christmas?” Burke doesn’t reply yes or no. He simply answers “a Nintendo 64.” That’s the same game Burke grabs on his way out the door on the morning of December 26, when John and Fleet White shuffle him out of the house. Dr. Phil asks Burke what JonBenet got. He answers, a big dollhouse, and… “we both got bikes.”
(ME) I found this to be incredibly sad
[/FONT][video=youtube;1aSN1_xNR2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aSN1_xNR2o[/video]
s(he) be(lie)ve(d)
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Sorry something went wrong when I hit post and its a mess. I hope it makes some sense.
johnjay
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That's a great question. And James Kolar hints about Burke maybe being unhappy with his Christmas presents. It seems odd to me that he would be riding an old bike on Christmas when he got a new Nintendo and still had other toys to assemble.
[FONT=&]
Hmmm. So maybe Burke did get a bike???? Is there a picture of Burke's Christmas bike?
[/FONT]
I don't know what to make of the bike story. ????? Can anyone shed some light on this?
johnjay
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It was a great post, thanks!
Okay, so I am coming into this terribly late, but I see that everyone thinks BDI. I remember this case from 20 years ago, but just understanding the details from watching the shows now. I am confused - exactly what physical evidence is there to claim that her brother is responsible and the parents covered it up? And how is the unknown male DNA to be explained? Sorry, I know this is counter, but until that DNA is explained I don't think the family should be blamed.
kanzz
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The first post on this thread is a great place to start:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-The-3-People-in-the-House-when-JonBenet-Died
I did see that post and understand only the family can be discussed, but weren't they exonerated by the DNA evidence? How is that evidence a red herring?
PositiveLight
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Well we don't discuss the intruder theory because there's no real evidence an intruder was ever involved. The DNA you refer to is tDNA touchDNA. This was shown in the CBS documentary how the touch DNA- occurred. It was from the manufacturing process. A brand new pair straight from the packages tested positive for multiple DNA. She had on a brand new pair never worn before. There was only a small window that the injuries could have occurred to JonBenet when compared to the amount of rigor when JonBenet was found. The flashlight is put into play by BR on Dr. Phil. Plus Burke also puts himself downstairs by his own admission during the time the crime is thought to have occurred during his Dr. Phil interview. JonBenet had pineapple particles in the upper portion of her small intestine adding to a more closer time of death. Burkes fingerprints are on the glass of tea and bowl of pineapple. He admits that him and JonBenet "maybe" shared pineapple that night. His Swiss army knife was found next to her body. The flashlight was found in the kitchen completely wiped clean of all fingerprints including the batteries inside. Burke was know to smear feces on JonBenets belongings. They were witnessed playing doctor by housekeeper. Burke had hit her previously in the face with a golf club (by accident or purpose). Burkes behavior during all of his interviews from 2 weeks after her death (he actually said he was moving on with his life 2 weeks after her brutal murder in their basement) until Dr. Phil's interview. His comments in reference to questions asked during said interviews. He even described what he thought happened to her in eery detail 2 weeks after her death. PR wrote the Ransom letter. The only person she would truly cover for is her only last living child, Burke. She said she couldn't live if something happened to him too. The ligature used to finish her wasn't a complicated object of death as the Ramsey's would want people to believe. The housekeeper said she saw one in the basement that matched it prior to her death. It was just used to choke her. It took no special skill to make or use. JMOO and observations. There is so much to this case but all the evidence points to someone inside the home either BR, PR, or JR. JR most believe wasnt even aware until after the fact. PR didn't have reason to kill her beauty queen. She was very used to changing wet beds and clothing due to both children suffering from incontinence. The only one that both parents would cover for is BR.
JMOO
Hope this helps some. There is a lot of good work done here on the evidence. A lot to read. I'm still learning more each day about this case.
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kanzz
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The short explanation is that Mary Lacy was out of line to have done that as tDNA has been shown to have possibly come from the manufacturer.
There is no evidence to support an intruder.
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PositiveLight
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Plus the grand jury after hearing 13 months of evidence and testimony did find both parents had enough evidence to send both to trial. Both were indicted for two crimes. One of which was covering for someone after knowing the person committed First Degree Murder. That was kept quiet by Alex Hunter the DA at the time and he chose not to charge them and left people with the impression that the grand jury didn't find they should stand trial. The true bills were only released years later. Mary Lacey the DA that exonerated the Ramsey's went by the tDNA. Not true DNA. Touch DNA- is not reliable. It can come from a thousand different places and it was more than likely from the manufacturing process of the panties.
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Heymom
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The blood was JonBenet's own blood.
Okay, this sure is a confusing case. In this NY Post article, they state that the touch DNA matched DNA from the blood spot. But it also says they deviated from protocol.
"The results of the DNA test ultimately showed that genetic material recovered from JonBenéts long johns matched the unknown male profile previously identified from blood found in her underwear, prompting Lacy to formally clear the Ramseys in a June 2008 apology letter to the family."
http://nypost.com/2016/09/12/jonbenet-ramsey-series-questions-key-dna-evidence/
kanzz
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Here are a couple of articles about the issues with tDNA, (which some states do not even allow as evidence in criminal cases, BTW):
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/10/touch-dna-might-be-contaminating-crime-scene-evidence
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/10/touch-dna-might-be-contaminating-crime-scene-evidence
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm