By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Razz]

Your theory makes sense to me after hearing Burke say he felt safe in his bed the morning after when everyone flooded the home. His bed was his safe zone I guess. Which would possibly mean that he also felt safe doing other things in his room too. JMOO of course but if we follow his train of thought on where he felt safe, the bedrooms seem to make sense I guess. I wonder if the parents checked on the kids often during the night. Maybe they usually didn't? John says he took melatonin to help him sleep. PR always seemed drugged after the murder but I wonder if she took meds to sleep too? So it could be possible the kids rambled the house at night often without their parents getting on to them. I will never understand why they didn't have baby monitors or something to at least listen out for their kids at night. I knowwww I'm very over protective of my kids. Guilty as charged! But am I the only parent who would have issues with the bedroom layout? Am I the only parent who would be worried something could happen to them during the night? :scared: This is a good example why I am so paranoid when it came to my kids. I'd rather them sleep in my bed than be too far away from me lol! I have always had a king sized bed for exactly that reason too! So everyone could fit! :laughing:When my daughter was pregnant she and I took over the king sized bed due to her being so so sick 24/7. I actually miss those days when they were growing up and we would watch movies together and laugh and have the best time. When my son would visit from college he would always sleep in the bed with us and we would watch bunches of movies and he would play guitar for us and we would just catch up till we all passed out from exhaustion. I think I actually feel safer with my kids close to me. It's usually my best sleep too. I'm like a mother hen. Can't sleep until my chicks are all in the nest safely lol. My daughter has the same habit now with her daughter. She sleeps with her in the bed. If they are sleeping at our house then it's us 3 in the bed lol. Hubby gets kicked to the curb! :laughing:Although he is more than happy to go to the couch lol he said it's like sleeping in a martial arts studio with us in the bed! He jokes that me and my kids favorite side of the bed is the top side! We are terrible bed fellers. But at least we know where the kids are and that they are safe. My son says he misses that the most now that he's off on his own. We've always had such a supportive relationship between us all and love to laugh and share stories. Dangit now I want him to come visit and play the guitar and make me laugh!

Whoa. TMI. 😨

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[write]

I agree with those who do not think Patsy would have protected John. She would have been okay if he went to jail and anyway if he had done it, she would have been far too furious with him to protect him. They apparently didn't have that good a marriage so she wouldn't have protected him because she loved him either.

Would John have protected Patsy if she did it? Any ideas?

(I pretty much believe BDI.)

 

[PositiveLight]

Whoa. TMI. 

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:laughing:I think you may misunderstand me lol!!! (I should have been more clear. My bad!) Me, my daughter and my granddaughter take over the big bed lol! When my son would pile on the bed with us we all had separate blankets because we are blanket hogs! so hot dog rolls! Plus we were too scared to sleep alone after watching scary movies hahaha! Now we all crash in the den with separate recliners and sleep and watch movies. Our favorite thing to do! With the widdle grandbaby now, she usually snuggles with her mommy or me in the recliner to sleep. I do miss those days when the kids were little. You have to remember though we were in a huge house and their daddy worked night shift so it was easier for us to all be together and actually get sleep than be up all night scared. I knew if the boogeyman came in the room it would have to go through me first! illowfight:

 

[PositiveLight]

I agree with those who do not think Patsy would have protected John. She would have been okay if he went to jail and anyway if he had done it, she would have been far too furious with him to protect him. They apparently didn't have that good a marriage so she wouldn't have protected him because she loved him either.

Would John have protected Patsy if she did it? Any ideas?

(I pretty much believe BDI.)

Hmmm! Good question! I'm not sure if JR would protect PR. But then again I guess he would have thrown her under the bus after her death maybe if he didn't want to protect her? Or at least blame her to get the heat off of him and BR. So, not really sure. It's definitely something to think about.
Welcome write to the forums!

 

[TeaTime]

JR would not toss PR under the bus, ever. He has walked through fire to protect her and BR.

 

[PositiveLight]

Do you think that PR opened up in the end to Linda Arndt since they became closer during the last bit of PR's life? Do you think maybe LA knows what happened? I'd love to know what brought them together after so many years at odds. :thinking:

 

[Ambitioned]

LA says she met Patsy shortly before she died and Patsy begged her to find JB's killer and she said she would.

As for your bed, I laughed and thought of Willy Wonka:

My mom is the same way. We'd all huddle in for movies or when the Olympics were on. As for sleeping though, nope, I need to be alone. I'm just a light sleeper!!

 

[PositiveLight]

LA says she met Patsy shortly before she died and Patsy begged her to find JB's killer and she said she would.

As for your bed, I laughed and thought of Willy Wonka:

My mom is the same way. We'd all huddle in for movies or when the Olympics were on. As for sleeping though, nope, I need to be alone. I'm just a light sleeper!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! YES!!!!!! Willy Wonka is a perfect example!!! :laughcry:We even sleep opposite directions like that too! :laughing: *sides hurting from laughing!!!!*
Ohh thanks for the info on LA and PR! It shocks me that even though they seemed to throw her under the bus, she leaned to her to find the killer. So interesting!

 

[BBB167893]

I agree with those who do not think Patsy would have protected John. She would have been okay if he went to jail and anyway if he had done it, she would have been far too furious with him to protect him. They apparently didn't have that good a marriage so she wouldn't have protected him because she loved him either.

Would John have protected Patsy if she did it? Any ideas?

(I pretty much believe BDI.)

Hi, write. I've said for a long time now that John would have protected Patsy. And one reason I can think of: she was "his," and no one was going to take anything of "his" away.

 

[write]

Hi, write. I've said for a long time now that John would have protected Patsy. And one reason I can think of: she was "his," and no one was going to take anything of "his" away.

hmmm. From Day One I assumed that the only person both would protect was Burke. I still think that's true. But as for one protecting the other, it's different. As PositiveLight said a few posts back, if Patsy did it, why didn't John come clean after she died? (answering my own question)--because he would have looked like such an idiot, liar, standing in the way of justice due to his staging and other involvement. Maybe John would have protected Patsy.

I sort of believe BDI, then dragged her down to the basement (their secret place) and tried to revive her, went and told Patsy finally. Patsy went to the basement, saw whatever and screamed. Sent Burke back to bed and told him it was only a nightmare. Got John, etc.

Of course, how does that tie in with her coming into Burke's room screaming "where's my baby?" Or Burke saying she came into his room and went psycho. Which, in turn, doesn't fit in with Patsy writing the rn or John and Patsy doing the staging. Patsy's sweater fibers were inside the duct tape so she probably had at least a little bit to do with the staging, I would think. All this makes me bonkers.

 

[k-mac]

k-mac,
Yes, thanks again NIN, the diagram is interesting. Although from my own experience as a kid, when there were no adults about we sat wherever we wanted.

I'm starting to consider, is the pineapple bowl and glass staging, i.e. it was actually located somewhere else originally? I doubt either BR or JonBenet ate out of that bowl since the spoon is too large.

So surely there must be bowls elsewhere, i.e. cleaned up by the helpers?

.

i dont know uk guy
no matter which theory we work with i always visualize the same scenario with the pineapple.
that it was an over sight. perhaps an innocent part of the beginning.
burke sat at that table having the tea and pineapple snack. ( think we've got enough probability of this)
straight from the whites with help from mum or later alone and self surficed.
i dont think its really that important to the bigger picture of the murder sequence but it is still very relevant because it blows the ramsey alibi apart if patsy served it or the other way burke wandering around that big house alone while the murderer also was.....
it just is the what did (think it was ) lou smit call it ??
the bugg-y-ti-boo of their story. really is a sticky point about their credability.

* added later....of course the autopsy report stating JBR had said pineapple in her system is what blew it for the ramseys from day 1 and why it is the buggy-ti -boo!!

 

[Heymom]

I have read Foreign Faction , and recently read it again. I do think John would protect Patsy if she caught him in the act of abusing JonBenet. I don't think Patsy flipped out and meant to hit JonBenet. I think she flipped out and tried to hit John, but he moved too quickly.

Then did you just ignore all of the SBD stuff that Kolar included? Patsy did not commit the crime!

 

[UKGuy]

i dont know uk guy
no matter which theory we work with i always visualize the same scenario with the pineapple.
that it was an over sight. perhaps an innocent part of the beginning.
burke sat at that table having the tea and pineapple snack. ( think we've got enough probability of this)
straight from the whites with help from mum or later alone and self surficed.
i dont think its really that important to the bigger picture of the murder sequence but it is still very relevant because it blows the ramsey alibi apart if patsy served it or the other way burke wandering around that big house alone while the murderer also was.....
it just is the what did (think it was ) lou smit call it ??
the bugg-y-ti-boo of their story. really is a sticky point about their credability.

* added later....of course the autopsy report stating JBR had said pineapple in her system is what blew it for the ramseys from day 1 and why it is the buggy-ti -boo!!

k-mac,

Well one of the most difficult things to do is to revise your own theory I did this with my BDI.

The pineapple blows the R's out of the water, in particular BR, so he now says yeah I was downstairs.

Yet downstairs does not equal homicide LW knows this, hence his admission.

My money is on BR assaulting JonBenet in her bedroom, he has form for this behavior, its a brother on sister case, and only the sisters are going to talk.

Only survivors know when an adults says don't tell, say nothing, no secrets, etc, it means its important, so nothing is said.

The secret is the contract, and nothing is said. That's why BR told the interviewer outright yeah I have secrets but if I told you they would no longer be secret.

Like I say its a brother on sister case with BR indulging his fantasy with JonBenet the pageant girl. Adults would understand and compromise, etc. BR young immature mind goes over the top, and regards JonBenet as his own, something to whack and asphyxiate. Come on down Dr Freud.

.

 

[southernmimi]

Then did you just ignore all of the SBD stuff that Kolar included? Patsy did not commit the crime!

I have ignored nothing. Neither you nor I have all of the information on this case and don't know who was or wasn't involved. We have opinions and ideas...mainly presented to us by people writing books...books with price tags attached. You say Patsy did not commit the crime! I say we don't know if she did or not, but hope one day the case is solved through the courts.

 

[Userid]

To me, that table set up doesn't look like something an adult would do. This looks like a glass top table. How many women would place a glass and a bowl ON the glass? She would carefully place them on the place mat. I had a glass table back in those days and it was a pain to keep clean, you did not set dishes on it. You made sure to use the place mats.

Also, (this is just from vague memory) I think Burke said somewhere that he liked iced tea. Also that they used to make it in a glass using the microwave. The large serving spoon in the bowl--again, more like something a kid would do. A kid might do it because they didn't know any better or just "because they could" without their mother scolding them. Now that Burke has admitted that he was up in the middle of the night, it's seeming more possible to me that he fixed that snack--used a huge spoon either to be silly or rebellious or didn't know better, set food right onto the glass table (maybe he usually got scolded for that too but he was up ALONE at night this time).

His fingerprints are on the dishes because he set up the snack. Patsy's fingerprints are on the dishes just because she took them out of the dishwasher and put them away. Patsy, when interviewed later, does say that the set up looks strange. This time she seems to be telling the truth when she says she wouldn't use the large serving spoon and that the set up doesn't look right. I don't think she had anything to do with the snack. It was Burke--up to mischief in the middle of the night.

So I don't know who killed JBR; no one does. But I do think this table scene shows that Burke made himself a snack, that he was alone at that time. At that age, some kids would be up to mischief, acting like the king of the house, up all by himself, doing whatever he wanted to do. Angry and rebellious, at least that night. Probably feeling pretty proud of how he had everyone fooled while they were asleep. Making his own food, playing with his toys in the middle of the night--just the opposite of what his parents have told him to do. Patsy would have told him to go to bed and get a good night's sleep so he would be ready for the next day. (hmmm, sounds a little bit like the ransom note but I don't want to jump to conclusions.)

This is a really good post.

The only other thing that may have happened -- that someone else already touched on -- would be that maybe the place mat at Patsy's chair was being used for something else; meaning, something else was already occupying that space. If BR was there, maybe he was building/playing with a toy on top of the table?

Does anyone else find it ironic that this is PR's chair, and that all the other place mats and the majority of the table is cluttered/occupied, but her place mat (if the re-enactment is accurate) is completely devoid of anything -- only her's on top of it. Could she have written the ransom note here? Perhaps the bowl and glass were originally on the place mat, but were then moved by PR to the side so that she could lay the writing pad down and write the note? Just thinking out loud...

 

[Userid]

JR would not toss PR under the bus, ever. He has walked through fire to protect her and BR.

Agree -- here is the thing: if PR discovered the inappropriate relationship that JR was conducting that very night, and accidentally (or maybe even purposefully, who knows?) struck JBR, they would both have everything to lose. They would both be going to jail, and BR would be sent to live with relatives or foster care. Maybe PR wouldn't have wanted to cover for JR, but she would have had to, because of her actions that night as well. To me, this is the only reason that explains why they'd get separate lawyers.

 

[PositiveLight]

Yeah the separate lawyers was very strange. I think it is very telling. Maybe both played a different role that night. Now both Burke and John share the same lawyer. It is an interesting piece of the puzzle. I wonder if his ex wife still has a lawyer too.

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[kiterunner]

BR, but I don't think it was deliberate. I also think that they originally planned to dispose of the body but PR changed her mind at the last minute. I wonder if the parents lived/will live to regret the decisions they made that night for both of their children's sakes.

 

[Heymom]

BR, but I don't think it was deliberate. I also think that they originally planned to dispose of the body but PR changed her mind at the last minute. I wonder if the parents lived/will live to regret the decisions they made that night for both of their children's sakes.

The Grand Jury thought it was deliberate and that her parents had both not protected her from a known threat, and also covered up for first degree murder. Pretty sobering to consider that, but that's what they found.

 

[Razz]

Yeah the separate lawyers was very strange. I think it is very telling. Maybe both played a different role that night. Now both Burke and John share the same lawyer. It is an interesting piece of the puzzle. I wonder if his ex wife still has a lawyer too.

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I"m not surprised that JR and BR share the same lawyer. I think Ol' JR thinks he needs to keep a close eye on BR and wants or feels he needs to direct things for his son. Maybe BR doesn't make good decisions. Much like
his dad.

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