By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Userid]

^ There were no drag marks identified in the autopsy. Also, dragging would have left evidence all over the crime scene/steps. It would have been all but impossible to drag someone down the spiral staircase anyway; and the killer would have risked using the other staircase because he would have had to cross over to the complete other side of the house and right by all the other family members' bedrooms, particularly BR's.

 

[Gnat]

^ There were no drag marks identified in the autopsy. Also, dragging would have left evidence all over the crime scene/steps. It would have been all but impossible to drag someone down the spiral staircase anyway; and the killer would have risked using the other staircase because he would have had to cross over to the complete other side of the house and right by all the other family members' bedrooms, particularly BR's.

I thought about drag marks after I posted. I am leaning strongly that JBR walked down to that basement. I'm around a 6 yr old and it would be a struggle for me to carry him around and impossible for a 10 yr old to carry.
JBR could of been drug or slid from the train room to the WC hence her arm position. Jmo

 

[Userid]

I don't believe her arm position is indicative in any way of being "dragged." Her arm position is simply indicative that her arms were placed above her head either immediately before or soon after she had died -- that's it.

 

[singularity]

I'm changing my opinion to BR involvement. I'm Clearly not as polished as so many of you posters. How did JR and PR cover for the intruder theory?

You went from a sadistic pedophile intruder to Burke in one day?!?


You've got a LOT of reading to do.

If the only documentary you've watched is the CBS one, you need to branch out in that department as well. It leaves out tons of info.

 

[Gnat]

You went from a sadistic pedophile intruder to Burke in one day?!?


You've got a LOT of reading to do.

If the only documentary you've watched is the CBS one, you need to branch out in that department as well. It leaves out tons of info.

Oh how I would love to get ahold of BR's interview with the psychologist and his DP interview.

 

[gitana1]

In the beginning, I thought for sure the parents did it. there behavior was so odd. Over time I began to climb onto the fence.

The brother theory never seemed that logical to me because didn't the evidence show that JB suffered ahead injury that hadn't killed her before she was strangled? So that would mean her parents decided to kill her and pretend an intruder did it rather than seek help for their child, just to cover for their kid. It doesn't make sense to me, even though the mother seemed to really be into appearances.

I never got the feeling or impression that JR was lying. PR seemed evasive and odd in interviews. BR didn't seem like he was lying in the police interview.

But there was something off with the family. Some level of dysfunction. BR still doesn't act normally.

Nevertheless, unlike others, I cannot totally discount an intruder, for various reasons. Even though the family is odd. Even though the ransom makes no sense and seems to match PR's handwriting.

It remains a mystery to me.

 

[otg]

otg,
Seems like James Kolar suffers from this misconception. You must write to him so he can amend the relevant chapter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved...hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/cpu0vj3/

I should. Or, as I mentioned in another post about something else, I'll ask him about it the next time I run into him at Starbucks. :giggle:

If anyone has his email, I'll gladly try to straighten him out about it (despite knowing how people who do contact officials get labeled).

 

[Swirlz]

For people who were positive it was one or the other of the parents but who changed their mind after watching the CBS/Dr. Phil specials, what piece of information was the tipping point?

 

[JustJo]

I didn't know much about this case until I saw the CBS documentary. I was only 12 when the crime took place so I can't remember much from then. I remember my mam telling me about it and I must have watched a documentary when I was younger because I vividly remember thinking that in no way was it IDI!

I'm in the BDI camp after seeing the documentary and reading on here. I think it was the golf club and the strange behaviour of Burke in his interviews after the murder that did it for me.

I think he hit her over the head out of anger but didn't intend to kill her.

I think she was knocked out and he thought he could use that as an opportunity to hurt her. In his head it was 'fun'.

I think he sexually assaulted her out of curiosity then strangled her to see what might happen. I believe he prodded her with the train track. I don't know where all this happened.

I don't think he had any specific fantasies, I think his strange mind used the unexpected situation to be inquisitive in a very sick way!

I think BR wiped her down and changed her.
Whether he told PR or she found JB herself, I don't know. I believe PR did most of the staging. I think she wrote the RN alone because it seems to scream dramatic Patsy IMO.

I'm not sure when JR became involved. The above is my main belief what happened however reading all the information always raises more questions and doubts about my theory.

I think PR realised BR had gone too far for her to call an ambulance and claim just a blow to the head. She had to cover for the sick crime of her remaining child and got JR to do the same

A purposeful hit on the head that lead to accidental death, followed by a young boy with serious issues playing with her dead body [emoji17]

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[DeDee]

I should. Or, as I mentioned in another post about something else, I'll ask him about it the next time I run into him at Starbucks. :giggle:

If anyone has his email, I'll gladly try to straighten him out about it (despite knowing how people who do contact officials get labeled).

I just so happen to have it and will send it your way.

 

[Swirlz]

It is extremely rare for children under 10 to commit murder, especially without a gun being involved or the victim being an infant or toddler. Such cases are so unusual as to barely exist. Meanwhile murders of children by parents are common.

If Burke was the only possible suspect, I would simply accept that something extremely unusual happened. But he was in the house with at least two vastly more likely suspects, i.e. Patsy and John. The possibility that it was an adult is far more likely than a 9 year old killing a 6 year old.

With enough research, someone can find maybe two or three cases similar to the BDI theory in the last few decades. Meanwhile, mothers killing their children take place on a weekly, even daily basis.

 

[UKGuy]

It is extremely rare for children under 10 to commit murder, especially without a gun being involved or the victim being an infant or toddler. Such cases are so unusual as to barely exist. Meanwhile murders of children by parents are common.

If Burke was the only possible suspect, I would simply accept that something extremely unusual happened. But he was in the house with at least two vastly more likely suspects, i.e. Patsy and John. The possibility that it was an adult is far more likely than a 9 year old killing a 6 year old.

With enough research, someone can find maybe two or three cases similar to the BDI theory in the last few decades. Meanwhile, mothers killing their children take place on a weekly, even daily basis.

Peppermintswirlz,
Thats how I used to see the case. For a long time I discounted BDI since it appeared so far out, and like you say there are two more likely suspects. So for a while I moved between PDI and JDI, with PDI being the stronger of the two.

Yet when I checked PDI and JDI together, a tick list, strength and weakness etc. Neither theory explained all the evidence, bizarrely only BDI did that as its assumed the parents are staging Burke out of the homicide.

If someone can fill the holes in PDI then I'll switch back to that, although currently BDI explains more than PDI or JDI does separately.

BlueCrab's early BR theories revolved around a group thing, done behind the parents back with BR's accomplices fleeing into the night on foot or bycycle.

This helped me to ignore BR for a long time, until little clues were developed such as LHP's remarks, and recognizing JonBenet had been sexually assaulted, and that the Coroner said to Steve Thomas it could be chronic?

Add in Kolar's theory about SBP etc, and you might have a recipe, but like you say, its a big ask for many to think a 9 year old boy did it?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I didn't know much about this case until I saw the CBS documentary. I was only 12 when the crime took place so I can't remember much from then. I remember my mam telling me about it and I must have watched a documentary when I was younger because I vividly remember thinking that in no way was it IDI!

I'm in the BDI camp after seeing the documentary and reading on here. I think it was the golf club and the strange behaviour of Burke in his interviews after the murder that did it for me.

I think he hit her over the head out of anger but didn't intend to kill her.

I think she was knocked out and he thought he could use that as an opportunity to hurt her. In his head it was 'fun'.

I think he sexually assaulted her out of curiosity then strangled her to see what might happen. I believe he prodded her with the train track. I don't know where all this happened.

I don't think he had any specific fantasies, I think his strange mind used the unexpected situation to be inquisitive in a very sick way!

I think BR wiped her down and changed her.
Whether he told PR or she found JB herself, I don't know. I believe PR did most of the staging. I think she wrote the RN alone because it seems to scream dramatic Patsy IMO.

I'm not sure when JR became involved. The above is my main belief what happened however reading all the information always raises more questions and doubts about my theory.

I think PR realised BR had gone too far for her to call an ambulance and claim just a blow to the head. She had to cover for the sick crime of her remaining child and got JR to do the same

A purposeful hit on the head that lead to accidental death, followed by a young boy with serious issues playing with her dead body [emoji17]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

JustJo,
Looks like something along the lines you suggest took place. No medical attention for JonBenet must be a red flag for any PDI or JDI theory, what you found JonBenet injured or she had an accident under duress and then she was ligature asphyxiated? Whut!

Seems as if Patsy staged Burke out of the case, whilst leaving her forensics behind. JR probably became involved later and only to tweak what he saw as Patsy's mistakes or an improvement.

Which suggests something like your sceanrio where Burke say an hour after whacking JonBenet and redressing her in size-12's and his long johns tells Patsy or she checks on Jonbenet and finds her comatose?

Once Patsy has staged the basement crime-scene she either wakens JR to pass it off as reality, i.e. IDI, or tells him how it is?

This case makes you realize some people get away with murder and go their merry way!

.

 

[UKGuy]

For people who were positive it was one or the other of the parents but who changed their mind after watching the CBS/Dr. Phil specials, what piece of information was the tipping point?

Peppermintswirlz,
Something that tipped me over completely into BDI was seeing the images released of the long white underwear worn by JonBenet.

Realizing they were Burke Ramsey's was a big deal, that fact had been kept hidden for years. Nothing said about it during the interviews, no reference to Burke's Long Johns, just long white underwear!

.

 

[JustJo]

Peppermintswirlz,
Something that tipped me over completely into BDI was seeing the images released of the long white underwear worn by JonBenet.

Realizing they were Burke Ramsey's was a big deal, that fact had been kept hidden for years. Nothing said about it during the interviews, no reference to Burke's Long Johns, just long white underwear!

.

I think I've seen them referred to as leggings on tv documentaries. Each time I hear that I'm thinking no they're not! They're Burke's long johns. Which is rather different from JB's own leggings like they're implying.

It's shocking isn't it UKGuy. I still can't quite believe the whole awful thing [emoji53] We know an RDI but surely another red flag is that the patents didn't seem bothered in finding the so called intruder. I don't have kids but I'm sure if I did and they were murdered I'd do everything in my power to find out who did it. Argh the whole thing irritates me!

I know what happened to JB is horrendous and it took some sick angry person to do that. I am in no way like that but I remember when I was about 12, my younger brother was really winding me up. He was 6 or so and was doing that annoying thing where kids repeat everything you say. For some reason I snapped. I am ashamed to say that I grabbed him round the neck and shook him while shouting at him to shut up.

Ok I didn't grab him hard, I didn't shake him that hard and I stopped after 10 seconds or so but I can see how Burke could just grab something and hit her.

Thankfully I have never had another 'episode' like that. I am a very quiet person who avoids confrontation. I hope you don't all think I am an awful person. That experience is another reason why I think BDI.

In case anyone wants to know, me and my brother get on great [emoji4] We very rarely fell out as children. That was probably the only time so please don't think I terrorised my little brother!

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[UKGuy]

I think I've seen them referred to as leggings on tv documentaries. Each time I hear that I'm thinking no they're not! They're Burke's long johns. Which is rather different from JB's own leggings like they're implying.

It's shocking isn't it UKGuy. I still can't quite believe the whole awful thing [emoji53] We know an RDI but surely another red flag is that the patents didn't seem bothered in finding the so called intruder. I don't have kids but I'm sure if I did and they were murdered I'd do everything in my power to find out who did it. Argh the whole thing irritates me!

I know what happened to JB is horrendous and it took some sick angry person to do that. I am in no way like that but I remember when I was about 12, my younger brother was really winding me up. He was 6 or so and was doing that annoying thing where kids repeat everything you say. For some reason I snapped. I am ashamed to say that I grabbed him round the neck and shook him while shouting at him to shut up.

Ok I didn't grab him hard, I didn't shake him that hard and I stopped after 10 seconds or so but I can see how Burke could just grab something and hit her.

Thankfully I have never had another 'episode' like that. I am a very quiet person who avoids confrontation. I hope you don't all think I am an awful person. That experience is another reason why I think BDI.

In case anyone wants to know, me and my brother get on great [emoji4] We very rarely fell out as children. That was probably the only time so please don't think I terrorised my little brother!

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JustJo,

I think I've seen them referred to as leggings on tv documentaries. Each time I hear that I'm thinking no they're not! They're Burke's long johns. Which is rather different from JB's own leggings like they're implying.

Right, for years I assumed they were female long white underwear, until I saw those images and realized the case was BDI all the way down!

You obviously care about what happened to JonBenet, so I reckon you will be a considerate, sharing person, rather than an awful brother shaker, LOL.


.

 

[JustJo]

JustJo,


You obviously care about what happened to JonBenet, so I reckon you will be a considerate, sharing person, rather than an awful brother shaker, LOL.


.

Phew, thank you! It still shocks me to think about it mind. It was so out of character for me! [emoji50]


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[Userid]

It is extremely rare for children under 10 to commit murder, especially without a gun being involved or the victim being an infant or toddler. Such cases are so unusual as to barely exist. Meanwhile murders of children by parents are common.

If Burke was the only possible suspect, I would simply accept that something extremely unusual happened. But he was in the house with at least two vastly more likely suspects, i.e. Patsy and John. The possibility that it was an adult is far more likely than a 9 year old killing a 6 year old.

With enough research, someone can find maybe two or three cases similar to the BDI theory in the last few decades. Meanwhile, mothers killing their children take place on a weekly, even daily basis.

Yup, exactly.

 

[archieil]

It's shocking isn't it UKGuy. I still can't quite believe the whole awful thing [emoji53] We know an RDI but surely another red flag is that the patents didn't seem bothered in finding the so called intruder. I don't have kids but I'm sure if I did and they were murdered I'd do everything in my power to find out who did it. Argh the whole thing irritates me!

Would you spend half of your life explaining to the mob who did it not knowing how?

You the mob did nothing on your side. Why do you think one or two family members will do better?

I think they know (at least John) who did it, this person is dead.

Prove me wrong or stop talking nonsesnse.

You are greedy. wants to force someone not to grab the information who...

You want him to solve the case which was too complicated for some reasons for thousands of people.

ok. John goes to interview and he says "I know who did it. He is dead."

or

"I know who did it, I can point you this person and believe me as much as you believe me I am not a murderer."

Do you understand? You want someone to do an impossible. Is this too complicated reasoning for someone here?

[edit] In other words I think you use this sentence as a blackmail. Do not do this. This is not a debating point for any theory in a way it should be pushed every few posts.

 

[Swirlz]

In case anyone wants to know, me and my brother get on great [emoji4] We very rarely fell out as children. That was probably the only time so please don't think I terrorised my little brother!

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I kicked my brat monster little brother down a flight of stairs once. I was of, of course, 40 at the time. (Kidding, we were 9 and 15.) Little brothers exist to torture you until you lose your temper and go all psycho. I understand.