CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #11

[DakotaMayi]

David's crying now that he has been caught. My god. Cry for yourself, but not your children.

I hope he cracks, pleads guilty etc. I hope they both do. The Magnificent's don't deserve to have to stand against them.

 

[MsGazette]

“We went and saw David and he was just sobbing,” added Andreassen. “He would sob, like his shoulders would shake up and down.”

“I said ‘I don’t know all the things you’ve done,’ and he said, ‘It will come out.’ ”

I saw that too - gave me the chills. Who knows if it’s what he really said. In this case, I hope not [emoji22].


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[HavenWood]

I'm thinking this show must have been allowed. My mom just reminded me that there is also an Alexa in the show - Alexa Reed is the show version of Rose Red. It's possible JS just spelled it wrong, as Elexa, for her other online screenname. Not sure about the 'morning' part though....

ETA: Sorry this was meant as a reply to post #551, quote function failed

Also ETA: sorry, I'm not sure this is right actually. I think my mother may be confused with something else, as I can't find a Rose Red character in OUAT. :gaah: The Lacey Swan thing is a go though, I remember that from when I used to watch it, lol.

You were correct. Alexa Reed was the Storybrook equivalent of Rose Red

 

[Cafemalyn]

Just to set the record straight, when I commented on how it makes me uncomfortable that some discussions seem to imply that if DT was less dominant than LT this was connected to his lack of masculinity, I did not have any particular post or poster in mind nor did I attribute any statements to any specific poster(s).

I was addressing a general trend in this and other discussions outside WS that occasionally conflate DT’s apparent lack of dominance with lack of masculinity. In at least one case (and I don’t remember where, honestly) I read speculation that he might be gay-but-in-denial. This was the context for my post.

Be that as it may, just because I said that some argument or position makes me uncomfortable doesn’t mean I want to silence such arguments or positions. I was just reporting my feelings.

(As for geeks, of course there are both male and female geeks. DT just happens to be a male geek— As far as I am concerned, his geekiness may be his only “normal” quality. But that is just IMHO.)

 

[gitana1]

Yeah, we presume they actually like each other and want to be together. Maybe some of them really just want to be alone.

Great point. I've thought this for some time. These kids were likely treated as a group of interchangeable parts, not as autonomous human beings. They were likely also used as caretakers for their siblings. And some might even have been forced to participate in maltreatment of a sibling.

It's also seems apparent that some were treated worse than others. That might have created feelings of guilt and or resentment.

Imo, agency is one of the biggest things these kids need to achieve at present. Learning how to advocate for themselves and not subsume their own needs with the needs of their siblings. Learning to be individuals and determine their own wants and needs, separate from the group.

That's going to be super hard as the level of enmehsment, parentification, and annihilation of self by their disturbed, narcissist parents, has likely created people pleasing shadows who know that to voice thoughts or feelings or needs independent of their parents' is to be subject to severe abuse.

I do not mourn the separation as many do. In fact, I think it might be good for them. And healing.

Not to make light of the abuse or horrific situations for these kids. But legally, this is exactly the types of things that the defense will present if there is a trial. This is a good point.

Satch

You're right. The defense will present these things. They are a way to confuse a jury.

Happily, they aren't a legal defense to abuse. Movie night doesn't negate chaining. A kid singing behind a closed door into a phone she uses to connect to social media doesn't negate the filth, the neglect and the fact of their physical and mental imprisonment.

Mommie Dearest dressed her kids up and took them to fancy dinners but that didn't mean she wasn't also violently abusive at other times.

Hopefully the proseuction can get a jury to understand that. It will be hard as so many think in all or nothing or black and white terms. ( I used to myself when I was younger and it can be hard to accept all the shades of gray. )

 

[JulieNMM]

We need to get away from the idea that the children were locked up in a dungeon 24-7.

So true. I'm sure they weren't tortured 24x7. Torture is bad, for sure, and I'm sure they were tortured, just not all day, every day.

 

[gitana1]

So true. I'm sure they weren't tortured 24x7. Torture is bad, for sure, and I'm sure they were tortured, just not all day, every day.

I think some were. According to LE some were chained for weeks. Even months i think?

 

[DakotaMayi]

I think some were. According to LE some were chained for weeks. Even months i think?

Yes, I'm sure "months at a time" were the words they used. Or something like that.

 

[Amonet]

More about it here; Videos offer glimpse inside home where teen was allegedly held captive by parents

The bit at the end where the presenter says that some of the siblings want to become doctors, nurses, and investigators!

I had a feeling that some of them would be so impressed with the doctors and nurses, and that they might have a naturally caring streak in them, that they might want to emulate the wonderful people who've rescued them and cared for them through this difficult time.

 

[MsGazette]

Great point. I've thought this for some time. These kids were likely treated as a group of interchangeable parts, not as autonomous human beings. They were likely also used as caretakers for their siblings. And some might even have been forced to participate in maltreatment of a sibling.

It's also seems apparent that some were treated worse than others. That might have created feelings of guilt and or resentment.

Imo, agency is one of the biggest things these kids need to achieve at present. Learning how to advocate for themselves and not subsume their own needs with the needs of their siblings. Learning to be individuals and determine their own wants and needs, separate from the group.

That's going to be super hard as the level of enmehsment, parentification, and annihilation of self by their disturbed, narcissist parents, has likely created people pleasing shadows who know that to voice thoughts or feelings or needs independent of their parents' is to be subject to severe abuse.

I do not mourn the separation as many do. In fact, I think it might be good for them. And healing.



You're right. The defense will present these things. They are a way to confuse a jury.

Happily, they aren't a legal defense to abuse. Movie night doesn't negate chaining. A kid singing behind a closed door into a phone she uses to connect to social media doesn't negate the filth, the neglect and the fact of their physical and mental imprisonment.

Mommie Dearest dressed her kids up and took them to fancy dinners but that didn't mean she wasn't also violently abusive at other times.

Hopefully the proseuction can get a jury to understand that. It will be hard as so many think in all or nothing or black and white terms. ( I used to myself when I was younger and it can be hard to accept all the shades of gray. )

To add to that, if LT and DT are both narcissistic, narcissists are known to offer people “a carrot” so to speak, like a special treat or moments of kindness to keep them in their world and maintain control. That would fit the dinners, Disney, even just a kind word or “I love you” thrown their way.


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[Amonet]

I think that sometimes LT might have tried to reach out to the kids in a "let's all be one big happy family!" way. But the next moment maybe she'd snap and "we'll you've ruined that, now you can be chained up".

Maybe they could sing in the house when DT was at work and LT was taking the eldest son to college. But what happened the rest of the time?

People often put on a show for outsiders. Sometimes people look at the lives of others and think how perfect it is, and behind closed doors it's not really so perfect.

When you look at someone's FB or their YT channel, you don't really know what's going on in their life. Our human brain structure is such that it's important for us to learn to extrapolate from things like this for survival reasons. But these extrapolations can be so faulty that I don't think it's fair when we use the extrapolations to judge someone and throw those judgments in their face as if we know better than they do who live with/through such things as depression, mental illness, spousal or child abuse, etc.

 

[Cafemalyn]

I think some were [tortured or chained 24-7] According to LE some were chained for weeks. Even months i think?

The impression I have had from the reports is that the chaining/tying/locking up may have been a “punishment” and that while there were usually several “children” being punished at the same time, they were not all “punished” in the same way or for the same period(s) of time.

This doesn’t mean the Turpins “were not as bad as first reported.”

The kids were starved. They were beaten. The “punishment” for (real or imagined) infractions was harsher that any punishment should be. The kids who were tied up or chained were tortured. The number of days that torture and abuse were happening is not as relevant as the fact that the abuse and imprisonment and neglect happened.

Just because they weren’t ALL chained all the time and the “House of Horrors” actually looks like a normally messy house in some shots on Youtube doesn’t mean the Turpin parents are not monsters.

The fact that not all chained/tortured 24-7 just explains why some may have had some familiarity with social media, tv shows, etc. It doesn’t mean the Turpin parents should get off with a slap on the wrist.

 

[gitana1]

I think that sometimes LT might have tried to reach out to the kids in a "let's all be one big happy family!" way. But the next moment maybe she'd snap and "we'll you've ruined that, now you can be chained up".

Maybe they could sing in the house when DT was at work and LT was taking the eldest son to college. But what happened the rest of the time?

People often put on a show for outsiders. Sometimes people look at the lives of others and think how perfect it is, and behind closed doors it's not really so perfect.

When you look at someone's FB or their YT channel, you don't really know what's going on in their life. Our human brain structure is such that it's important for us to learn to extrapolate from things like this for survival reasons. But these extrapolations can be so faulty that I don't think it's fair when we use the extrapolations to judge someone and throw those judgments in their face as if we know better than they do who live with/through such things as depression, mental illness, spousal or child abuse, etc.

I can really easily imagine that scenario. I can hear her saying that: "Well you ruined that." You must have crossed paths with disturbed people like this. Sadly I have. (Mother in law).

The impression I have had from the reports is that the chaining/tying/locking up may have been a “punishment” and that while there were usually several “children” being punished at the same time, they were not all “punished” in the same way or for the same period(s) of time.

This doesn’t mean the Turpins “were not as bad as first reported.”

The kids were starved. They were beaten. The “punishment” for (real or imagined) infractions was harsher that any punishment should be. The kids who were tied up or chained were tortured. The number of days that torture and abuse were happening is not as relevant as the fact that the abuse and imprisonment and neglect happened.

Just because they weren’t ALL chained all the time and the “House of Horrors” actually looks like a normally messy house in some shots on Youtube doesn’t mean the Turpin parents are not monsters.

The fact that not all chained/tortured 24-7 just explains why some may have had some familiarity with social media, tv shows, etc. It doesn’t mean the Turpin parents should get off with a slap on the wrist.

You nailed it. I agree. I also think some may have been subject to that torture more often than others. The 22 year old son for example. Probably te oldest for much of her life.

Ugh. It's hard to think about.

 

[Cafemalyn]

I can really easily imagine that scenario. I can hear her saying that: "Well you ruined that." You must have crossed paths with disturbed people like this. Sadly I have. (Mother in law).

You nailed it. I agree. I also think some may have been subject to that torture more often than others. The 22 year old son for example. Probably te oldest for much of her life.

Ugh. It's hard to think about.

While I too believe the second son (J-4) and the eldest daughter (J-1) were two that got treated even worse than the others, I wonder why you think this.

My reasons for thinking the eldest bore the brunt of the abuse are that
—The oldest was probably the one who was first seen as “rebelling” and needing to be kept under control (back when she was 3, 4, 5, 6 years old even) — She was also the one whose greater initial contact with the outside world may have made her question and/or criticize.
—She seems to have been a smart kid. Talking to a neighbor in Texas who asked her name, she told the neighbor that they weren’t allowed to tell their names, but that if the neighbor listened (when the kids addressed each other) the neighbor would know the names. That is a smart 8 year old thinking logically. (Unforunately the younger sister, J-3, was bothered by this. She scolded her older sister and may have tattled, which would have led to punishment for J-1 and the limiting of contact between the Turpin kids and the neighbors.).
—J-1 is also the most likely candidate for “girl who tried to run away in Texas.”
—Furthermore, her low weight was given as an example of the extreme abuse, and she certainly looks beaten down in some of the pictures.

The case for J-4 being more abused than other siblings is less obvious. Yes, he was the only one found chained, but the other 2 who were chained had just been released when the cops went into the house. And the story is that the parents started chaining the kids after this son wiggled out of his bonds when hogtied. But that doesn’t mean that others weren’t treated with equal harshness. So why do I think he was one of the “scape goat kids”? Is it just because he is clearly more malnourished in the pictures than his older brother and the sisters on either side (J-3 and J-5)? Or are we assuming he was less well treated because, although he was a boy, he seems to have not had the educational opportunity that the oldest boy(J-2) got? What do others think?

It is interesting how we all have these ideas about the Turpin offspring, and how we get these ideas.

(BTW— In my life the “now you have ruined it” person was an aunt. She didn’t hit anyone or torture anyone physically, but she caused a lot of emotional pain. She wouldn’t speak to you for weeks if she was mad at you, and even after time passed and the “crime” was supposedly expiated, she would bring it up to emphasize how disappointing and unreliable all the people who loved her were. Very sad.)

 

[MsGazette]

While I too believe the second son (J-4) and the eldest daughter (J-1) were two that got treated even worse than the others, I wonder why you think this.

My reasons for thinking the eldest bore the brunt of the abuse are that
—The oldest was probably the one who was first seen as “rebelling” and needing to be kept under control (back when she was 3, 4, 5, 6 years old even) — She was also the one whose greater initial contact with the outside world may have made her question and/or criticize.
—She seems to have been a smart kid. Talking to a neighbor in Texas who asked her name, she told the neighbor that they weren’t allowed to tell their names, but that if the neighbor listened (when the kids addressed each other) the neighbor would know the names. That is a smart 8 year old thinking logically. (Unforunately the younger sister, J-3, was bothered by this. She scolded her older sister and may have tattled, which would have led to punishment for J-1 and the limiting of contact between the Turpin kids and the neighbors.).
—J-1 is also the most likely candidate for “girl who tried to run away in Texas.”
—Furthermore, her low weight was given as an example of the extreme abuse, and she certainly looks beaten down in some of the pictures.

The case for J-4 being more abused than other siblings is less obvious. Yes, he was the only one found chained, but the other 2 who were chained had just been released when the cops went into the house. And the story is that the parents started chaining the kids after this son wiggled out of his bonds when hogtied. But that doesn’t mean that others weren’t treated with equal harshness. So why do I think he was one of the “scape goat kids”? Is it just because he is clearly more malnourished in the pictures than his older brother and the sisters on either side (J-3 and J-5)? Or are we assuming he was less well treated because, although he was a boy, he seems to have not had the educational opportunity that the oldest boy(J-2) got? What do others think?

It is interesting how we all have these ideas about the Turpin offspring, and how we get these ideas.

(BTW— In my life the “now you have ruined it” person was an aunt. She didn’t hit anyone or torture anyone physically, but she caused a lot of emotional pain. She wouldn’t speak to you for weeks if she was mad at you, and even after time passed and the “crime” was supposedly expiated, she would bring it up to emphasize how disappointing and unreliable all the people who loved her were. Very sad.)

Just a thought on the oldest boy, J-2. He could have received special treatment because they were grooming him to be the next in line as the head of the household and /or also to carry on the Turpin name. There are so many twisted theories or reasons.


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[Francesca]

So true. I'm sure they weren't tortured 24x7. Torture is bad, for sure, and I'm sure they were tortured, just not all day, every day.

My guess would be that some of the kids (particularly the younger ones) would be "picked" to play their part in the happy family fantasy. Thirteen children is great for LT's group photo but if she wants to go out shopping or watch a movie at home, one or two children would suffice. So she would teach compliance by alternating the neglect with special treats. You might be chained to your bed one day, but another day you'd be allowed to play with the puppy.

 

[gitana1]

While I too believe the second son (J-4) and the eldest daughter (J-1) were two that got treated even worse than the others, I wonder why you think this.

My reasons for thinking the eldest bore the brunt of the abuse are that
—The oldest was probably the one who was first seen as “rebelling” and needing to be kept under control (back when she was 3, 4, 5, 6 years old even) — She was also the one whose greater initial contact with the outside world may have made her question and/or criticize.
—She seems to have been a smart kid. Talking to a neighbor in Texas who asked her name, she told the neighbor that they weren’t allowed to tell their names, but that if the neighbor listened (when the kids addressed each other) the neighbor would know the names. That is a smart 8 year old thinking logically. (Unforunately the younger sister, J-3, was bothered by this. She scolded her older sister and may have tattled, which would have led to punishment for J-1 and the limiting of contact between the Turpin kids and the neighbors.).
—J-1 is also the most likely candidate for “girl who tried to run away in Texas.”
—Furthermore, her low weight was given as an example of the extreme abuse, and she certainly looks beaten down in some of the pictures.

The case for J-4 being more abused than other siblings is less obvious. Yes, he was the only one found chained, but the other 2 who were chained had just been released when the cops went into the house. And the story is that the parents started chaining the kids after this son wiggled out of his bonds when hogtied. But that doesn’t mean that others weren’t treated with equal harshness. So why do I think he was one of the “scape goat kids”? Is it just because he is clearly more malnourished in the pictures than his older brother and the sisters on either side (J-3 and J-5)? Or are we assuming he was less well treated because, although he was a boy, he seems to have not had the educational opportunity that the oldest boy(J-2) got? What do others think?

It is interesting how we all have these ideas about the Turpin offspring, and how we get these ideas.

(BTW— In my life the “now you have ruined it” person was an aunt. She didn’t hit anyone or torture anyone physically, but she caused a lot of emotional pain. She wouldn’t speak to you for weeks if she was mad at you, and even after time passed and the “crime” was supposedly expiated, she would bring it up to emphasize how disappointing and unreliable all the people who loved her were. Very sad.)

I'm basing this in part on the physical effects/height and how they acted in the wedding videos and who was chained when found.

My mother in law is more of an emotional abuser too.

 

[SkipperKey3]

I don´t think it has been officially confirmed, but there are things that point to it.
1. It looks like Jordan.
2. They had dogs like this.
3. The room looks like the picture I post of their house from before they moved in (model home.)

I think it is her.

That is definitely the same room - same colors, same mirrored sliding closet door with white strip on floor, etc.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

This article differs from the People article shared earlier this week.

LT’s sister seems deadset on painting LT as insane.

House of Horrors Mom Seems 'Almost in a Daze' in Jail, Sister Claims: 'It's All "Woe Is Me" ' - Peoplehttps://apple.news/A18EYmeFcSS2jWb8juJAiqA


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[SkipperKey3]

This article differs from the People article shared earlier this week.

LT’s sister seems deadset on painting LT as insane.

House of Horrors Mom Seems 'Almost in a Daze' in Jail, Sister Claims: 'It's All "Woe Is Me" ' - Peoplehttps://apple.news/A18EYmeFcSS2jWb8juJAiqA


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It doesn't really differ that much. She still says LT is in a fantasy world of denial, claiming everything will be okay.