CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #11

[SkipperKey3]

It is actionable. It's child neglect and they've been charged with it.

But didn't those child neglect charges come before any educational assessment, and as a result of other neglect? Would the education deficiencies, then, be bundled in with that charge or could it constitute a separate neglect charge? I know little to nothing about CA law, so I was just wondering.

 

[gitana1]

It seems like he could have contacted LE and they certainly could have found the computer info.

If he existed he could've been quite young.

 

[MsGazette]

The forgiveness is not for their sake, but for the siblings´ sake.
And forgiveness does not equal no punishment!!

They can move on if they forgive, they cannot if they don´t.

I know what you mean. They need closure and come to peace with it.
And these two will be punished by the law...so the siblings will not even need to think or worry about that. They have already wasted too much of their lives on those two.


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[MsGazette]

I am in tears after reading this. Why wouldn't the hospital staff have a say in terms of where the siblings were going to live? I understand it was their attorney's decision. But should they have been involved in the process?

Satch

I don’t get that. Unless it risks them being followed by the media. But it seems like even just phone calls would have helped ease the transition? Or at least ensure that things are going smoothly. They have a trust with these people. That’s so important.


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[SATA]

I was really sad when I read that some of the staff wanted to have a period where they could visit and give the siblings their phone numbers so they could still have a little bit of contact while they adjusted to the new place and that it wasn't allowed. I'm glad they got to have a moving on party to say their thanks and goodbyes, but the staff there are the first people who've been kind to them and looked after them the way their parents should have looked after them. It seems cruel and dangerous, especially when you add it to the line in the article about some of them fearing that things would be given to them and then taken away.

But it does sound like they've moved from one good place to another and that they're going to continue to have plenty of support as they are introduced to new things and new experiences and develop as individuals.

I hope all of them, the minors and the adults, will settle well into their new homes and have the comfort, love, security, everything they have always deserved but previously been deprived of.

The cold system at work.
That is why family is so important.
But since this bunch HAVE no family, why couldn´t there be a little understanding and let there be some contact to the people they initially bonded with and trusted.
Now they will have an even harder time bonding and trusting, it is stupid!!!

I think it is cruel there can´t be.

 

[human]

Do you have a source for private schools getting public funding for their operations? TIA

I tried to find it in CA but cannot. I figured because in Minnesota orivate schools get textbooks and transportation that it is the same in all states. Any textbook that is not religious.

Private schools in CA do not get students transported to school ?

There are no ways for private schools to get grants for field trips, supplies, etc? I don’t know what search terms to use. The ones I tried did not come up with any info

 

[human]

Do you have a source for private schools getting public funding for their operations? TIA

Also, on their taxes, could they deduct any living space used for schooling, water phone, internet, sewage, transportation, feees mortgage, car expenses, supplies, food, on their taxes?

 

[human]

If he existed he could've been quite young.

I don’t know where the quote is, but I think it said, “Man”.

 

[blue22]

Also, on their taxes, could they deduct any living space used for schooling, water phone, internet, sewage, transportation, feees mortgage, car expenses, supplies, food, on their taxes?

In California, you can get funds for homeschooling. However, you have to homeschool under an umbrella charter, there IS documentation/accountability. The money can only be used for educational purposes. Your materials cannot be religious based. It appears (IMO) the Turpins chose to register as a private school, so that they did not have to correspond with anyone, like several of the other options to homeschool in California require. Remember, they weren't operating a private school. They registered as a private school, so they could homeschool. The only way they could deduct the things you list, is if they operated as a for profit private school. There are NO federal tax breaks for homeschooling. You can deduct specialized tutoring and therapy on federal taxes. California does not offer any tax breaks for homeschooling at the state level.

I cannot think of a way this could have financially benefited them. I suppose they could have received state money for special needs children (SSI, etc.) but that would require A LOT of documentation, interviewing, etc.

 

[human]

In California, you can get funds for homeschooling. However, you have to homeschool under an umbrella charter, there IS documentation/accountability. The money can only be used for educational purposes. Your materials cannot be religious based. It appears (IMO) the Turpins chose to register as a private school, so that they did not have to correspond with anyone, like several of the other options to homeschool in California require. Remember, they weren't operating a private school. They registered as a private school, so they could homeschool. The only way they could deduct the things you list, is if they operated as a for profit private school. There are NO federal tax breaks for homeschooling. You can deduct specialized tutoring and therapy on federal taxes. California does not offer any tax breaks for homeschooling at the state level.

I cannot think of a way this could have financially benefited them. I suppose they could have received state money for special needs children (SSI, etc.) but that would require A LOT of documentation, interviewing, etc.

If there is a daycare in a home or a home business, all of those could be deducted. On a bankruptcy form I saw Louise was paid $10000 for a job. I wondered what that was. Maybe it was pay as a teacher in their private school.

Would the fact that she was getting paid (if that is what it was for) make it so they could deduct expenses?

I am sure they could make a tremendous food bill for six students. Could they not even deduct a portion of their property taxes for their private school?

I do not understand the private school/homeschool option that means they could not deduct expenses.

I would think most private schools do not file as money making.

 

[Cafemalyn]

I don’t know where the quote is, but I think it said, “Man”.

"Man" doesn't necessarily mean an adult male. If the word "guy" was used by T-8, the media could have translated it as "man." And a "guy" can be any male over 12, I have found. (Maybe younger than 12, who knows.)

 

[FelicityLemon]

Do you have a source for private schools getting public funding for their operations? TIA

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/voucher-law-comparison.aspx

https://www.twincities.com/2017/09/...-from-federal-grants-with-maybe-more-to-come/

I wonder if there's a loophole/shenanigans that would allow the T's to receive federal funding and grants. Example: parents get "vouchers" to be able to send their kids to charter schools. The T's register their home as a school. The T's then get paid per student. They request funding to send their school-age children to a charter school. The school is their own home. The T's collect a hefty amount per child. That would be quite a cycle.

Charters don't charge tuition. Private schools do.

I'm still checking this out - very interesting so far!

 

[human]

"Man" doesn't necessarily mean an adult male. If the word "guy" was used by T-8, the media could have translated it as "man." And a "guy" can be any male over 12, I have found. (Maybe younger than 12, who knows.)

It did not say ,”Guy “. It was , Man”. But I have no way of knowing if they translated it from any descriptor.

 

[blue22]

If there is a daycare in a home or a home business, all of those could be deducted. On a bankruptcy form I saw Louise was pakd $10000 for a job. I wondered what thaf was. Maybe it was pay as a teacher in their private school.

Would the fact that she was getting paid (if that is what it was for) make it so they could deduct expenses?

I am sure they could make a tremendous food bill for six students. Could they not even deduct a portion of their property taxes for their private school?

I do not understand the private school/homeschool option that means they could not deduct expenses.

I would think most private schools do not file as money making.

No, because they aren't actually a private school. You can register as a private school (private family school) in order to homeschool in California. They were not an actual private school business/. They registered their family homeschool as an independent homeschooling private school. My state, in Texas...homeschools fall under the private school law. Meaning, homeschool families are considered private institutions that are not regulated by the state. In order to achieve this in California, you have to register as such. As far as taxes go, they are a homeschooling family.

People get really hung up on the registering as a private school. It's just a way to say to the they are homeschooling. In simple terms, it says "we homeschool." It's also the easiest way to tell the state without regulation.

ETA: Sorry about the insane typos. My fingers hate my phone today!!

 

[gitana1]

Not sure if this version has been posted. It talks about their survival on peanut butter sandwiches to the point that they have a strong distaste for peanut butter. It also mentions the frozen dinners. The thing in this article that I haven’t seen before is the reference to “no shoes”. Obviously they had them on their special outings and the son that went to college and when one of the daughters originally attended school, but “no shoes” is such a red flag in terms of child neglect. It really is. I’m afraid this story will become so familiar with media exposure that people will become desensitized and forget how awful their situation is. Things like “hog-tied”, “chained and couldn’t go to the bathroom”, didn’t shower / bathe for a year. I am shocked that there wasn’t disease or infection involved. But in the end, I don’t think there should ever be a question that these people suffered. These people...LT and especially DT were smart. They knew how far they could go and push the limits to maintain control and not have them die. Very sad.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/siblings-held-captive-survived-peanut-butter-sandwiches/story?id=53868473



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I'm very concerned that the public guardian is refusing to allow the hospital staff, to whom they grew very atached, and who showered them with love, to have any contact with the adult kids. Clearly, the CEO who gave his interview in tears, is also very concerned.

Yes, they had to move eventually to a normal home but attachment is very important to children and adults who have been deprived of love. They need to be able to form attachments and bonds and not have those yanked away.

It is very concerning that the sibling's psychologists have stated that to deny them contact with their first caregivers, would be damaging, and yet the public guardian did so anyhow. These young people were getting out of the car and trying to go back to the hospital because they didn't want to leave.

The parents deprived them of love and isolated them from society and took all decision-making powers form them. Seems the public guardian is doing the same thing and I have a problem with that.

Public guardians aren't always the best people. We have had several issues with conservators in CA, who are in it for the money.

I'm worried. I think I will write to the siblings' lawyer.

I think it was a good call to move the adult children away from the hospital.... the longer they stayed, the harder it would have been to move them later on.

They were already so attached to some of the nurses, I think this was a good move on the lawyers part.

I disagree 100%. That flies in the face of all principles of healing trauma and a lack of attachment/love.

In the case of the family kept underground in Austria, they were allowed to live in the hospital for about a year I believe. Obviously their issues were more severe but the concept of cocooning and learning trust and gradual introduction to the world is not much different.

Of course we can't replicate that here, with our system of health care, and a nice homelike, family-type environment would be good for them, but denying them contact with those to whom they attached is disgusting. I never understood the attitude that we need to make children get used to emotional independence or to deprive abused and neglected persons of attachments, by moving them around from foster home to foster home so they don't get used to any one person.

The reality is that the opportunity to form attachments and give and receive love to those who a person attaches to is crucial to mental health. And when it has been denied to a person and they have become damaged as a result, the way to heal that and enable them to learn to attach and love is by allowing them to attach to people who show them love.

Those workers had great instincts. They showered them with love and affection and nurturing, just like a parent should. And their instincts were to maintain contact. Now those poor young people are learning a second lesson about attachment and trust. The first was that those who they depended on to care for and love them, did not. The second was that when they finally receive that care and love it;s going to be ripped away.

But didn't those child neglect charges come before any educational assessment, and as a result of other neglect? Would the education deficiencies, then, be bundled in with that charge or could it constitute a separate neglect charge? I know little to nothing about CA law, so I was just wondering.

They would not constitute a separate charge. It's all part of neglect. However, on its own, failure to provide an education to a child does not constitute neglect under the code and would not support a charge without other stuff being there:

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-11165-2.html

 

[human]

They are quite canny with their money. They spend what they want. Live in decent homes. Then they go bankrupt.

He had a good income and we know no money was spent on the children, so they must have had a great time with their videos, going out to eat, maybe even spa time for Louise.

And it appears she may have done some kind of fertility treatment.
.

 

[gitana1]

The cold system at work.
That is why family is so important.
But since this bunch HAVE no family, why couldn´t there be a little understanding and let there be some contact to the people they initially bonded with and trusted.
Now they will have an even harder time bonding and trusting, it is stupid!!!

I think it is cruel there can´t be.

But it can be. That was a choice by their public guardian, who the hospital CEO is concerned with.

Uffer, who spent part of the interview choking back tears, said the siblings came to the hospital bereft of everything.
Uffer says he is concerned with the public guardian, which has cut off all contact between the children and the hospital, despite psychologists and the siblings’ own attorney’s recognition that continuity of care for the siblings is critical to their recovery.
The public guardian said she could not comment.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-...=clicksource_4380645_9_hero_headlines_bsq_hed

I tried to find it in CA but cannot. I figured because in Minnesota orivate schools get textbooks and transportation that it is the same in all states. Any textbook that is not religious.

Private schools in CA do not get students transported to school ?

There are no ways for private schools to get grants for field trips, supplies, etc? I don’t know what search terms to use. The ones I tried did not come up with any info

I don't know if this would apply:

[FONT=&quot]The state of California offers me, a homeschooling parent, $2600/year in educational funds for each of my kids. I, along with so many other homeschooling families in California, have crafted a customized and well-rounded education that reflects our family’s interests, priorities, learning styles, and values.
[/FONT]
https://thecontemporaryhomeschooler...ornia-pays-me-to-customize-my-kids-education/

 

[Satch]

The cold system at work.
That is why family is so important.
But since this bunch HAVE no family, why couldn´t there be a little understanding and let there be some contact to the people they initially bonded with and trusted.
Now they will have an even harder time bonding and trusting, it is stupid!!!

I think it is cruel there can´t be.

I think it is terrible that the hospital staff could not get information about the siblings new home. You have to wonder why even giving out their phone numbers was not allowed. This was the first form of loving, caring contact for the adult siblings and to not even have professional caregivers not have access to where these magnificent people were going was cruel. We need to hear the siblings attorney's explanation for this. Why there was not a mutual agreement between legal and medical personnel, mystifies me.

The only rational that I can see is that the attorney believed that hospitals are not the real world, and than there's the question of where do you make the transition from a hospital environment to a rehabilitation home? Perhaps the powers that be do not want any media contact, which could have been leaked if hospital staff was allowed to remain in contact with the Turpin kids.

Satch

 

[gitana1]

I don’t know where the quote is, but I think it said, “Man”.

I guess I;m showing my age! An 18 year old is quite young to me and is still considered a "man" in media reports and per the law.

 

[human]

I'm very concerned that the public guardian is refusing to allow the hospital staff, to whom they grew very atached, and who showered them with love, to have any contact with the adult kids. Clearly, the CEO who gave his interview in tears, is also very concerned.

Yes, they had to move eventually to a normal home but attachment is very important to children and adults who have been deprived of love. They need to be able to form attachments and bonds and not have those yanked away.

It is very concerning that the sibling's psychologists have stated that to deny them contact with their first caregivers, would be damaging, and yet the public guardian did so anyhow. These young people were getting out of the car and trying to go back to the hospital because they didn't want to leave.

The parents deprived them of love and isolated them from society and took all decision-making powers form them. Seems the public guardian is doing the same thing and I have a problem with that.

Public guardians aren't always the best people. We have had several issues with conservators in CA, who are in it for the money.

I'm worried. I think I will write to the siblings' lawyer.



I disagree 100%. That flies in the face of all principles of healing trauma and a lack of attachment/love.

In the case of the family kept underground in Austria, they were allowed to live in the hospital for about a year I believe. Obviously their issues were more severe but the concept of cocooning and learning trust and gradual introduction to the world is not much different.

Of course we can't replicate that here, with our system of health care, and a nice homelike, family-type environment would be good for them, but denying them contact with those to whom they attached is disgusting. I never understood the attitude that we need to make children get used to emotional independence or to deprive abused and neglected persons of attachments, by moving them around from foster home to foster home so they don't get used to any one person.

The reality is that the opportunity to form attachments and give and receive love to those who a person attaches to is crucial to mental health. And when it has been denied to a person and they have become damaged as a result, the way to heal that and enable them to learn to attach and love is by allowing them to attach to people who show them love.

Those workers had great instincts. They showered them with love and affection and nurturing, just like a parent should. And their instincts were to maintain contact. Now those poor young people are learning a second lesson about attachment and trust. The first was that those who they depended on to care for and love them, did not. The second was that when they finally receive that care and love it;s going to be ripped away.



They would not constitute a separate charge. It's all part of neglect. However, on its own, failure to provide an education to a child does not constitute neglect under the code and would not support a charge without other stuff being there:

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-11165-2.html

Is there a code of ethics that would keep them from a further relationship? Teachers in my district were not supposed to have relationships until two years after a child left the classroom. It has to do with a power structure,