CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #11

[human]

Info on patient nurse relationship.
https://nurseneedscoffeestat.org/20...atient-relationship-have-to-end-at-discharge/

From this blog. There is more.

Ask yourself if continuing a relationship after discharge from nursing services in these situations is acceptable or not.

Old high school teacher, who has asked you to add her to Facebook as she is leaving the hospital after recovering from a heart attack.
Mother of child who is dying of cancer and states she has a bond with you, you have been her rock. She wants you called and there when her child dies. You want to be there.
Child with chronic condition who is “everyone’s favourite”, spends months and months on your unit. Has a smile that melts your heart. You buy him a birthday present.
You have started your own Facebook page for mothers who have lost a child during childbirth. You share with a mother who delivered her baby stillborn that you have had a similar experience. You offer the Facebook page to her.
A patient with whom you have spent many nights sitting and writing letters to her children for her, as her hands were too weak to write them herself before she died. The family expects you at the funeral.
So should any of these individuals both adults and a child be able to contact you personally after discharge? Do some of these relationships seem “harmless”? Do the patients and families we take care of sometimes begin to feel like family? Is that normal?

Ask yourself: do the patients and families need the interaction or do you need the interaction? If so why? Is it crossing a boundary?

The therapeutic nurse relationship- defined

This relationship is dynamic, goal-oriented and patient-centered because it is designed to meet the needs of the patient. Regardless of the context or length of interaction, the therapeutic nurse–patient relationship protects the patient’s dignity, autonomy and privacy and allows for the development of trust and respect.



RED FLAG BEHAVIORS

Some behavioral indicators can alert nurses to potential

boundary issues for which there may be reasonable

explanations, however, nurses who display one or more

of the following behaviors should examine their patient

relationships for possible boundary crossings or violations.

Signs of inappropriate behavior can be subtle at

first, but early warning signs that should raise a

“red flag” can include:

 Discussing intimate or personal issues with a patient

 Engaging in behaviors that could reasonably be

interpreted as flirting

 Keeping secrets with a patient or for a patient

 Believing that you are the only one who truly

understands or can help the patient

 Spending more time than is necessary with a

particular patient

 Speaking poorly about colleagues or your employment

setting with the patient and/or family

 Showing favoritism

 Meeting a patient in settings besides those used to

provide direct patient care

 

[prpladi]

They do have a family. They have each other. They don’t have parents or an extended family they can turn to, but they have each other.

There are a lot of things that have been wrong in the Turpin kids’ lives, but one thing that has been right is that they are not alone. Even if there are rivalries and resentments, even if they at times had to betray each other... they have shared experiences and clearly some fondness for or allegiance to each other. That’s a lot more family than many other survivors of abuse have.

To be sure, they need guidance and they need a sense of permanence and they need to be able to trust people. But the relationship among them is going to be the key to their survival, I think.

If they are capable of loving, it is because they have been able to love each other. They certainly did not get love from LT and DT. For all but the very youngest, the crucial period for acquiring the ability to love is past. If they have it, it is because they have each other. That’s family.

Well put. I agree this is why they will be ok. They have each other, and they all have empathy.
They will be able to master learning about living in the real world by consulting each other.

 

[gitana1]

I share the above concerns and support the boldface type above, which shows the emotional bond between the siblings and hospital staff.

So it was the public guardian and not the attorney who removed them from the hospital? Or was it a mutual agreement between both? I think that we should work to get the public defender to change his/her mind through a contact with the siblings attorney. To have their first connecting, bonding trust of love and kindness taken away by not allowing the siblings any kind of communication after leaving the hospital is FLAT OUT WRONG!

Does anyone here believe that by denying the siblings contact with the hospital staff was the right thing to do? If so, why? We know they can't stay there forever, but the staff should certainly know where they are going and have the right to contact them! I think we heard from one member of our community who supports the guardian's decision. But I am having a hard time with that decision and need help understanding why no hospital staff contacts were allowed for the Magnificent Thirteen in their new home.

Satch

The lawyer is reported to have wanted them moved but the public guardian is the one who is reported to have cut off all contact with hospital staff.

 

[gitana1]

Well put. I agree this is why they will be ok. They have each other, and they all have empathy.
They will be able to master learning about living in the real world by consulting each other.

In dysfunctional families siblings often take on unhealthy roles that can be hard to shake and that prevent them from progressing. Caretaker is a typical role that I'm betting several of the kids have assumed. I just don't think their relationships with one another are enough to allow them to heal.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I tried to find it in CA but cannot. I figured because in Minnesota orivate schools get textbooks and transportation that it is the same in all states. Any textbook that is not religious.

Private schools in CA do not get students transported to school ?


There are no ways for private schools to get grants for field trips, supplies, etc? I don’t know what search terms to use. The ones I tried did not come up with any info

Private schools do not get students transported to school in CA unless the private school themselves fund it. Most public schools in CA don't even transport kids to and from school. Most public schools in CA have dropped busing and the only ones who are transported to and from school by the public school are those special education children that have that in their IEP.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I've only seen the ones with the oldest - one with her in cap and gown, one with the whole family, one with a picture of the gift table, if I remember correctly. They were in a previous thread, I believe. Not sure where to find them now. I haven't seen any graduation pictures for any of the other siblings, if indeed they had any kind of ceremony or even if they technically "graduated" - all by DT&LT's standards, of course.

I originally posted the link to what I think people are referring to as graduation photos and recall that it was off some sort of Telemundo youtube and I had a hard time playing it on Chrome....It is down there in this thread and was in Spanish.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...n-home-by-parents-Perris-15-Jan-2018-9/page23 is the page with my original post and the youtube is below (hopefully it still works)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szCy58osvm4

 

[ElizabethAnne]

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/voucher-law-comparison.aspx

https://www.twincities.com/2017/09/...-from-federal-grants-with-maybe-more-to-come/

I wonder if there's a loophole/shenanigans that would allow the T's to receive federal funding and grants. Example: parents get "vouchers" to be able to send their kids to charter schools. The T's register their home as a school. The T's then get paid per student. They request funding to send their school-age children to a charter school. The school is their own home. The T's collect a hefty amount per child. That would be quite a cycle.

Charters don't charge tuition. Private schools do.

I'm still checking this out - very interesting so far!

Charters don't charge tuition because these are public schools and those parents that homeschool do so under an Independent Study type of situation where a teacher at the Charter must monitor curriculum and progress. I don't know how the Turpins could have received any type of funding and grants for educational purposes. The only thing I can think of as a possibility is perhaps they declared all of their children as disabled and they were collecting SSDI per kid. I have no idea if this is true. I'm just trying to figure out show they could possibly scam the system to get funds from the county or state. I have no idea, but can't see how defining a private school would somehow siphon funds from the county or state. Also CA doesn't do vouchers as far as I know.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

One possibility for keeping the hospital and caregivers there from continuing contact with the children is to keep them safe at their new home.
That saying that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link: all it would take is for one worker to exchange information for money about their new location (if they knew). While at the hospital at least, they were as protected as possible for being in a public place. In a private residence no matter the location, there may not be the same protection once the address became public.

The kidlets are trusting and naive. If the nice people they developed relationships with asked for their address or location, they might be likely to share the information.

Yeah, I'm cynical, but I sometimes remember human nature. All it takes it one person in a vulnerable position either financially or emotionally, liking the attention or wanting to be interviewed... or even think they're giving an innocent, helpful interview, but inadvertently disclosing information.

We human beings are fallible, sometimes with a mistake, sometimes with selfish intent.

edited to add:
gosh, it could even be a mistake as simple as someone talking to their gf/bf/spouse and then that person spills the beans.
Too many ways for information to get out.

I think that if any of the hospital staff were to visit the new location, that the tabloids would likely follow the cars and find the location. Maybe that is why they kept the hospital staff from knowing where the location is. It is possibly out of Riverside County. One thought I had is that since the word "rural" was used perhaps it is somewhere in Northern California because if it was in Riverside County then I think the tabloid reporters would probably find it quickly. Since there aren't too many 7 BR houses out there, maybe it is a property with multiple houses on it well outside the Riverside County area.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Regarding blue22's post

ETA: I cannot think of a way homeschooling could have benefited them financially.

I am totally for regulations over homeschooling families. Though we don't homeschool anymore, I would have happily submitted to all kinds of regulation. Most families are doing the right things when homeschooling their children, but the laws as they are leaves lot of room for vulnerability. IMO

I can't figure out how they could have used homeschooling in CA to benefit financially unless they claimed the kids were disabled and obtained some sort of SSDI payments for them. There is something also called "heritage schools" in CA and I can't figure out how they could get state and county funds for that either. The only way I can see any one getting some sort of county or municipal grant is if they say they are a "non profit" and obtained some sort of grant. If that is the case, there would be a "non profit" on GuideStar somewhere. If they were able to scam the system to get money from the state or county, I thought that the details of how they were able to pull this off would have been in the press already. Riverside County would have some sort of payment vouchers that someone would have uncovered I would think. But perhaps the Turpins figured out a convoluted way to get the funds. If so, I hope someone figures out how they did it. Perhaps they declared tax deductions for "child care" or something like that.

I would never think that someone who filed for bankruptcy twice would be able to buy a brand new house within a couple of years. But they did it so it is possible that the Turpins were able to pull off a financial scam in ways none of us would ever even think about.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I don't know a lot about the guardian other than the news reports say it is a "she" and that the guardian is temporary and that there is a hearing on May 31 to see whether the guardian should be a permanent one. https://www.pe.com/2018/02/27/adult...-can-set-a-path-for-themselves-attorney-says/

http://www.riverside.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp/conservatorship.shtml
Here is what types of conservatorships there are in Riverside County and my guess it is one of the first two. Has anyone been able to look in the court records to find out who the guardian actually is? Or was this person appointed as a temporary without a court hearing? I did read the article regarding the disagreement between the attorney and the guardian. Who is the guardian? Do they appoint relatives or someone else? Is it one of Louise Turpin's sisters or a female relative? Or someone from the county staff? Does anyone know?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

The lawyer is reported to have wanted them moved but the public guardian is the one who is reported to have cut off all contact with hospital staff.

From the press reports, the press knows who the guardian is but aren't revealing who she is to the public for some reason. http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-...tive-survived-peanut-butter/story?id=53878914

Also there is another hearing scheduled for the criminal court on March 23rd according to this http://www.riverside.courts.ca.gov/media/media coverage order 20180323.pdf

 

[blue22]

Regarding blue22's post

ETA: I cannot think of a way homeschooling could have benefited them financially.

I am totally for regulations over homeschooling families. Though we don't homeschool anymore, I would have happily submitted to all kinds of regulation. Most families are doing the right things when homeschooling their children, but the laws as they are leaves lot of room for vulnerability. IMO

I can't figure out how they could have used homeschooling in CA to benefit financially unless they claimed the kids were disabled and obtained some sort of SSDI payments for them. There is something also called "heritage schools" in CA and I can't figure out how they could get state and county funds for that either. The only way I can see any one getting some sort of county or municipal grant is if they say they are a "non profit" and obtained some sort of grant. If that is the case, there would be a "non profit" on GuideStar somewhere. If they were able to scam the system to get money from the state or county, I thought that the details of how they were able to pull this off would have been in the press already. Riverside County would have some sort of payment vouchers that someone would have uncovered I would think. But perhaps the Turpins figured out a convoluted way to get the funds. If so, I hope someone figures out how they did it. Perhaps they declared tax deductions for "child care" or something like that.

I would never think that someone who filed for bankruptcy twice would be able to buy a brand new house within a couple of years. But they did it so it is possible that the Turpins were able to pull off a financial scam in ways none of us would ever even think about.

I don't know if this is true in California, but in my state getting approved for SSI or SSDI is pretty exhaustive. There is so much paperwork, health and therapy records, educational records, financial records involved. More than that, there is an in person assessments and "interviews" with the child. I really can't imagine the Turpins going through this to get the benefits. I think it would be incredibly risky to get these documents and evaluations scrutinized. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[msphilosopher]

I'm very concerned that the public guardian is refusing to allow the hospital staff, to whom they grew very atached, and who showered them with love, to have any contact with the adult kids. Clearly, the CEO who gave his interview in tears, is also very concerned.

Yes, they had to move eventually to a normal home but attachment is very important to children and adults who have been deprived of love. They need to be able to form attachments and bonds and not have those yanked away.

It is very concerning that the sibling's psychologists have stated that to deny them contact with their first caregivers, would be damaging, and yet the public guardian did so anyhow. These young people were getting out of the car and trying to go back to the hospital because they didn't want to leave.

The parents deprived them of love and isolated them from society and took all decision-making powers form them. Seems the public guardian is doing the same thing and I have a problem with that.

Public guardians aren't always the best people. We have had several issues with conservators in CA, who are in it for the money.

I'm worried. I think I will write to the siblings' lawyer.



I disagree 100%. That flies in the face of all principles of healing trauma and a lack of attachment/love.

In the case of the family kept underground in Austria, they were allowed to live in the hospital for about a year I believe. Obviously their issues were more severe but the concept of cocooning and learning trust and gradual introduction to the world is not much different.

Of course we can't replicate that here, with our system of health care, and a nice homelike, family-type environment would be good for them, but denying them contact with those to whom they attached is disgusting. I never understood the attitude that we need to make children get used to emotional independence or to deprive abused and neglected persons of attachments, by moving them around from foster home to foster home so they don't get used to any one person.

The reality is that the opportunity to form attachments and give and receive love to those who a person attaches to is crucial to mental health. And when it has been denied to a person and they have become damaged as a result, the way to heal that and enable them to learn to attach and love is by allowing them to attach to people who show them love.

Those workers had great instincts. They showered them with love and affection and nurturing, just like a parent should. And their instincts were to maintain contact. Now those poor young people are learning a second lesson about attachment and trust. The first was that those who they depended on to care for and love them, did not. The second was that when they finally receive that care and love it;s going to be ripped away.



They would not constitute a separate charge. It's all part of neglect. However, on its own, failure to provide an education to a child does not constitute neglect under the code and would not support a charge without other stuff being there:

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-11165-2.html

Excellent post gitana! BBM.

When I wrote my post, I had assumed that the psychologists had advised the lawyer to do this. Shame on me for assuming.

I assumed the lawyer was acting under the guidance of psychologists and that the attachment given their circumstances was actually detrimental in the long run. But I will immediately take back my stance on that given the information you provided.

You're an expert in this field and in these circumstances, so I trust your information and insights.

In regards to the no contact order, I do not like this but didn't think of this as "controlling" or "harming" the kids but more so as protecting them because they are moving to an undisclosed location. I assumed the no contact order was given as a means of controlling who knows their whereabouts. These are kids in adult bodies... if the contact is allowed and even though they tell them to not tell them their location, they trust them and they might tell them which could compromise their safety if their location is disclosed. At least that was my thought.

Knowing that this was NOT recommended by psychologists, then I think someone ought to get to the bottom of why this decision was made.

These children deserve love and attention. They had 20+ years abuse and only 2 months of TLC.

 

[SATA]

"In the first hours of what would become a two-month long stay at the hospital, staff scurried to buy the Turpins clothes, out of their own pockets. The ones in which they’d been rescued smelled so foul they had to be destroyed."

http://www.kake.com/story/37770520/...utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KAKE-TV

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

There are some things I don´t understand. A lot, but one thing for instance: they had never owned shoes. But on several photos we see them in shoes - several different ones.
Any explanations?

Also the hair washing. It looks like sibling 8 has clean hair in her videos. They say the siblings didn´t know how to bathe or wash their hair.
And in photos from trips their hair looks clean. Would David and Louise have washed the hair of all 13?

I am a bit puzzled by all this.

 

[SkipperKey3]

There are some things I don´t understand. A lot, but one thing for instance: they had never owned shoes. But on several photos we see them in shoes - several different ones.
Any explanations?

Also the hair washing. It looks like sibling 8 has clean hair in her videos. They say the siblings didn´t know how to bathe or wash their hair.
And in photos from trips their hair looks clean. Would David and Louise have washed the hair of all 13?

I am a bit puzzled by all this.

As for shoes, I'd say they were "special occasion" shoes, not their own, but kept in storage for special events. In the #8 videos, only once that I could see were her feet visible, and she was barefooted. And specifically in the vow renewal videos, some of the girls looked at times pretty unsteady in the shoes, and most of them did little more than sway. One of the articles yesterday stated that they were so awed by having shoes of their own that they actually slept in them, for fear of them being taken away.

As for hair washing, the videos by #8 are not conclusive at all. All we can tell for sure is that she brushed it. We know hygiene was lacking. They said that the clothes that they were rescued in had to be destroyed because they were so foul. I didn't notice any freshly-washed sheen on her hair in the videos, so I don't think it can be determined how clean her hair actually was.

As for photos of the trips, I'm guessing there would have been a concerted effort by DT/LT to make sure that they were clean - even to the point of letting them have a shower right before the trip. They couldn't afford to take them out reeking and smelling. That certainly doesn't mean that cleaning and washing was something they were routinely allowed to do. Even the initial reports indicated that the rooms (kids bedrooms?) absolutely stank.

 

[claudianunes]

There are some things I don´t understand. A lot, but one thing for instance: they had never owned shoes. But on several photos we see them in shoes - several different ones.
Any explanations?

Also the hair washing. It looks like sibling 8 has clean hair in her videos. They say the siblings didn´t know how to bathe or wash their hair.
And in photos from trips their hair looks clean. Would David and Louise have washed the hair of all 13?

I am a bit puzzled by all this.

I have to wash my hair everyday because it gets really oily if I don't and I can't stand it. When I was looking for ways to make my hair less oily, people advised me to not wash it if I didn't need to leave the house, so, if I wasn't going anywhere during the weekend I wouldn't wash it. It is true that my hair started adapting to that and didn't get oily on the very next day. That could be their case, since they wouldn't wash their hair for long periods of time, their hair started adapting but hey, they could be the type of people that just don't have oily hair. The oldest boy's hair looks really dry to me.
Her hair doesn't look exactly clean or taken care of, to me on those videos, if I'm being honest. I'm assuming they did take showers when they left the house.
This is not related to this post but I'm really curious about the development state of the youngest kid. We know she wasn't starved but is she speaking? Is she walking? Is she at the developmental stage she should be at that age?

 

[SATA]

As for shoes, I'd say they were "special occasion" shoes, not their own, but kept in storage for special events. In the #8 videos, only once that I could see were her feet visible, and she was barefooted. And specifically in the vow renewal videos, some of the girls looked at times pretty unsteady in the shoes, and most of them did little more than sway. One of the articles yesterday stated that they were so awed by having shoes of their own that they actually slept in them, for fear of them being taken away.

As for hair washing, the videos by #8 are not conclusive at all. All we can tell for sure is that she brushed it. We know hygiene was lacking. They said that the clothes that they were rescued in had to be destroyed because they were so foul. I didn't notice any freshly-washed sheen on her hair in the videos, so I don't think it can be determined how clean her hair actually was.

As for photos of the trips, I'm guessing there would have been a concerted effort by DT/LT to make sure that they were clean - even to the point of letting them have a shower right before the trip. They couldn't afford to take them out reeking and smelling. That certainly doesn't mean that cleaning and washing was something they were routinely allowed to do. Even the initial reports indicated that the rooms (kid's bedrooms?) absolutely stank.

I believe all the reports. It is obvious they were seriously abused. Just a few thoughts, hope people don´t mind!

Thanks for your answer.

 

[SATA]

I have to wash my hair everyday because it gets really oily if I don't and I can't stand it. When I was looking for ways to make my hair less oily, people advised me to not wash it if I didn't need to leave the house, so, if I wasn't going anywhere during the weekend I wouldn't wash it. It is true that my hair started adapting to that and didn't get oily on the very next day. That could be their case, since they wouldn't wash their hair for long periods of time, their hair started adapting but hey, they could be the type of people that just don't have oily hair. The oldest boy's hair looks really dry to me.
Her hair doesn't look exactly clean or taken care of, to me on those videos, if I'm being honest. I'm assuming they did take showers when they left the house.
This is not related to this post but I'm really curious about the development state of the youngest kid. We know she wasn't starved but is she speaking? Is she walking? Is she at the developmental stage she should be at that age?

Her and the 12 year old who is in foster care with her.
I wonder about those two, especially the 12 year old, because it was said that those two needed particularly much care and attention.

I feel so bad for her being separated from her siblings.

 

[claudianunes]

Her and the 12 year old who is in foster care with her.
I wonder about those two, especially the 12 year old, because it was said that those two needed particularly much care and attention.

I feel so bad for her being separated from her siblings.

I know, me too. If I was able to identify the 12-year-old correctly on the pictures, she always looks happy, like, genuenily happy. I know all of them are smiling on the pictures but she's the only one that does look like she's actually enjoying the moment. I wonder if the "care and attention" means that she was specially damaged physically and psychologically or if it just means that she has no notion of personal hygiene and the basic ability to do simple stuff that 12-year-olds are able to do, like getting ready for bed, getting cleaned up once she wakes up, table manners and so on, or if it means her education level is unexistent, which wouldn't really surprise me, since the 17-year-old was a first grade level at the time of the rescue. The thing is, she doesn't look mentally empaired to me on those pictures and some of the kids do look like they have some issues (I'm not trying to offend anyone or being insentive though). All I'm saying is that I'm curious what does her special need of care and attention translates to.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Oh yes!

I think a wonderful balance has been established between "The Magnificent Thirteen's" moves toward freedom and independence, with the proper amount of custodial supervision so that they can be both safe, and explore their new found world in small manageable steps. Kudos to the caregivers and the kids!

Remember that when you've lived in pain, filth, and grief, for all of your life, it is only natural to eventually accept that that horror is "normal." I relate the children's horrific abuses by their parents to that of children in third world countries who are beaten, tortured, and starved everyday by terrorist networks and ruling dictators. That's their life everyday and people in these countries can't disperse from that. Due to the fact that they know of no other life, those activities are "normal" to them.

Fortunately, some of the siblings with the limited outside exposure to the world that they did have, and the few who now have show to have Internet experience, were able to learn and sense that something was wrong. The painful lyrics in the 17-year old girls' songs, and the belief that others online encouraged her to escape was a wake up call. A call of courage and dedication to protect herself and save her brothers and sisters from years of suffering and abuse.

You can feel the empathy in the lives of these kids! One of the girls mentioned wanting to be a nurse, but could she do that without having to work with needles and see blood? These kids are very caring and loving to the pains and plights of others. They want the world to know what is going on with them. The kindness and compassion that they show is amazing! I could see many of the "Magnificent Thirteen" going into medical careers and social work areas to help people. These special people are going to make wonderful contributions to society!

Satch

Our WS member Gray Hughes has on his channel at youtube all of the videos she posted right now. I don't understand many of the words, my heart reaches out to her.