CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #2

[Midge Montana]

I'd be interested to know the birth-weights of these children and if they were carried to term.
With that many pregnancies one after another for years on end, Mom's resources for growing these children would likely be deficient unless she really stayed on top of it.
Mom looks healthy in her arrest photo for having so many children, except for some thinning hair which could be due to factors other than nutrition; age, hereditary, etc.
Her teeth seem healthy even in the various wedding photos as in: they appear to be her natural teeth and no obvious signs of major decay, missing teeth, etc.
So, one *might* draw the conclusion that she took care of her children during pregnancy and likely infancy since they all survived (that we know of.)
At what age did she stop taking care of them? I truly think that she loved being pregnant (I did!) and the novelty of growing a huge family, but after the cute baby stage when they are 100% dependent on her passes, they become objects to her.

I have a background in nutrition and I am not as hopeful as some that these children will ever be normal and healthy, sadly. Especially if this has been going on long-term. I didn't get a firm grip of how long from the presser, but it seems possible that it's been years or even decades to some extent.

 

[enelram]

I am wondering if any of these children were home births, and do they all have birth certificates and social security numbers. Not asking for links, just something that keeps eathing at me, for unknown reasons.

I thought same thing. How many more were born, died or miscarried? I'm sure LE is looking at this also.

 

[Caramel]

There are birth certificates for at least five, which seem to be the first four in the bankruptcy paperwork, plus the eldest girl.

 

[jessie]

I am wondering if any of these children were home births, and do they all have birth certificates and social security numbers. Not asking for links, just something that keeps eathing at me, for unknown reasons.

I have been longing to ask this same question. Hoping some WS'er out there can answer.

 

[Midge Montana]

Easy to follow article on the Long-Term Effects of Undernutrition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137999/

 

[Hatfield]

I am more and more persuaded that some children were born who are not included in the current tally of thirteen. On the bankruptcy paperwork in August 2011, the Turpins listed eleven dependents aged 19, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4. If you don't include the eldest known daughter (who would have been 23 at the time) this aligns well with what we know about the next seven children, with the current 17 year old who made the call to 911 being the ten year old on the bankruptcy paperwork. It's among the under-tens circa 2011 that things get strange. The Elvis from the Elvis Chapel who performed the "weddings" in 2011, 2013, and 2015 (-ish?) said that he had seen the family grow -- that "their family kept growing." This suggests to me more than one kid added since 2011. And there are four sons listed on the bankruptcy paperwork, but only three sons in photographs. Did they take the kids to the 2011 "wedding"? Or only to the 2013 and 2015 ones?

If no kids are missing, it means that all of the kids except thee baby in the 2015 wedding photos are over eight years old at the time, and that there is at least an eight year age gap between the baby and the next youngest kid.

I'm wondering if there were up to two more born between 2007 and 2015 and if up to two (possibly including one boy) of the as many as seven born 2002 and later is/are missing. They moved to the Muir Woods house in 2010. I'm hoping the smell in the house is feces and nothing even worse.

Thanks for trying to look into this.

JMO
I hope LE is also checking into this to make sure all are accounted for. With the obvious way the parents were "hiding" their children from others like making them do yard chores at night in the dark I suspect they were not allowed to go to the doctors very much either or if at all.

This needs to be vetted out to make sure none are "missing".

 

[Hatfield]

I'd be interested to know the birth-weights of these children and if they were carried to term.
With that many pregnancies one after another for years on end, Mom's resources for growing these children would likely be deficient unless she really stayed on top of it.
Mom looks healthy in her arrest photo for having so many children, except for some thinning hair which could be due to factors other than nutrition; age, hereditary, etc.
Her teeth seem healthy even in the various wedding photos as in: they appear to be her natural teeth and no obvious signs of major decay, missing teeth, etc.
So, one *might* draw the conclusion that she took care of her children during pregnancy and likely infancy since they all survived (that we know of.)
At what age did she stop taking care of them? I truly think that she loved being pregnant (I did!) and the novelty of growing a huge family, but after the cute baby stage when they are 100% dependent on her passes, they become objects to her.

I have a background in nutrition and I am not as hopeful as some that these children will ever be normal and healthy, sadly. Especially if this has been going on long-term. I didn't get a firm grip of how long from the presser, but it seems possible that it's been years or even decades to some extent.

JMO
This is interesting to me and I am wondering if there are other documented cases where it was proven that a mother was obsessed with being pregnant and having babies all the time for the main enjoyment of the infancy and dependency stage.

Until this case I have not heard of this possibility but I could see where it may happen. There is something special that happens when a baby needs to be 100% dependent on the Mother and I could see where a Mother may want or desire that feeling of being needed over and over again through the infancy and early childhood stage.

I am wondering if there are other cases where this sort of thing has happened and has been proven to become an obsession.

We dont know enough yet in this case what all the issues were but there is a chance this sort of thing happened here.

 

[hndinglove]

BBM -- That's a good catch, and the implications are so sad and frightening.

I am more and more persuaded that some children were born who are not included in the current tally of thirteen. On the bankruptcy paperwork in August 2011, the Turpins listed eleven dependents aged 19, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4. If you don't include the eldest known daughter (who would have been 23 at the time) this aligns well with what we know about the next seven children, with the current 17 year old who made the call to 911 being the ten year old on the bankruptcy paperwork. It's among the under-tens circa 2011 that things get strange. The Elvis from the Elvis Chapel who performed the "weddings" in 2011, 2013, and 2015 (-ish?) said that he had seen the family grow -- that "their family kept growing." This suggests to me more than one kid added since 2011. And there are four sons listed on the bankruptcy paperwork, but only three sons in photographs. Did they take the kids to the 2011 "wedding"? Or only to the 2013 and 2015 ones?

If no kids are missing, it means that all of the kids except thee baby in the 2015 wedding photos are over eight years old at the time, and that there is at least an eight year age gap between the baby and the next youngest kid.

I'm wondering if there were up to two more born between 2007 and 2015 and if up to two (possibly including one boy) of the as many as seven born 2002 and later is/are missing. They moved to the Muir Woods house in 2010. I'm hoping the smell in the house is feces and nothing even worse.

 

[4SAM]

How big is the back yard? Any speculation that they may have buried some? if there were other children.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'd be interested to know the birth-weights of these children and if they were carried to term.
With that many pregnancies one after another for years on end, Mom's resources for growing these children would likely be deficient unless she really stayed on top of it.
Mom looks healthy in her arrest photo for having so many children, except for some thinning hair which could be due to factors other than nutrition; age, hereditary, etc.
Her teeth seem healthy even in the various wedding photos as in: they appear to be her natural teeth and no obvious signs of major decay, missing teeth, etc.
So, one *might* draw the conclusion that she took care of her children during pregnancy and likely infancy since they all survived (that we know of.)
At what age did she stop taking care of them? I truly think that she loved being pregnant (I did!) and the novelty of growing a huge family, but after the cute baby stage when they are 100% dependent on her passes, they become objects to her.

I have a background in nutrition and I am not as hopeful as some that these children will ever be normal and healthy, sadly. Especially if this has been going on long-term. I didn't get a firm grip of how long from the presser, but it seems possible that it's been years or even decades to some extent.

I am hopeful for the future. Hopeful doesn't mean I think the oldest offspring will necessarily be as healthy as they should be if they had adequate upbringing, but I am hopeful they will be able to learn some life skills, including job skills. I worked with developmentally disabled adults and have seen job training that works. Might be really basic jobs, but it's something.

And I do hang on for higher aspirations than basic job skills for some of them.

Yep, I'm hopeful....as long as they are guided by good people from here on out.

jmo

 

[Hatfield]

With all due respect Hatfield, I am realistic too. I was just sharing a positive story of someone who I think is quite inspiring. I know it's less likely than these children being separated. I'm not unrealistic.

I am truly sorry AnaPisces as I did not mean to imply otherwise about anyone. And thank you for the real life example as it does show its possible and CPS may get lucky to find a capable couple willing to take on all 13 children.

Its really good that they have stated their intentions is to keep them together as they know its for the best. Lets hope they are able to stay with that approach.

This case has hit me really hard for some reason. I just feel so terribly sad for what all those children went through and I am so afraid of the future for them.

I will surely keep them in my prayers and I know others are also so there is hope they can recover fully someday.

One thing I know for sure is kids are very resilient which is a good thing

 

[sgrump]

I hate to say this but I'm wondering if all the kids are from the mother and father, seems bizarre but the 2 year old and possibly others are from one of the adult girls and either a sibling or the father. I'm sure LE is already doing DNA testing.

 

[little_miss_smart]

I hate to say this but I'm wondering if all the kids are from the mother and father, seems bizarre but the 2 year old and possibly others are from one of the adult girls and either a sibling or the father. I'm sure LE is already doing DNA testing.

I believe it's already been established that the children are all from the mother and father.

 

[sgrump]

DNA testing isn't that fast.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Bringing my post over from the last thread.



I think there’s almost no chance the 13 will be placed together (they apparently didn’t even have a hospital for all 13). I guess the bright side is that provides more opportunity for each child to get the attention they deserve. But a huge loss too. [emoji22]

I believe that the reason they went to different hospitals is that the minors went to a pediatric hospital while the adults went to an adult hospital. Also saw in one of the articles that the "adults" were being looked after by Adult Protective Services. APS can generally step in for adults who are considered unable to fend for themselves (frequently elderly persons). One thing to think about as regards where this family ends up is that only six are legally children. This opens some possibilities. Some foster families can take sibling groups (although even six is a bit of a stretch). And in any custody arrangement there would be latitude to allow/require ongoing contact with the adult siblings. And while we are not likely to know for awhile the severity of impact on the adult siblings (I have a hard time calling them "adult children"), one long-term possibility might include one of the older siblings as family custodian. It is entirely possible that one or more of them carried a good bit of the weight of care-giving already. I remember Jaycee Duggard being given a choice about returning to her mother, or being supported as an adult and mother to her children living independently. I will grant that even in her extreme situation she likely had a greater level of emotional maturity and even education than these folks have been able to accrue. But, I'm not yet willing to rule out the possibility of independent lives for these adults.

 

[Sconnie]

I am truly sorry AnaPisces as I did not mean to imply otherwise about anyone. And thank you for the real life example as it does show its possible and CPS may get lucky to find a capable couple willing to take on all 13 children.

Its really good that they have stated their intentions is to keep them together as they know its for the best. Lets hope they are able to stay with that approach.

This case has hit me really hard for some reason. I just feel so terribly sad for what all those children went through and I am so afraid of the future for them.

I will surely keep them in my prayers and I know others are also so there is hope they can recover fully someday.

One thing I know for sure is kids are very resilient which is a good thing

Is it possible that the older children could be placed in a group home? I believe the odds of the younger ones being placed together would be increased in that situation, and I would think it would be easier to keep them all in touch with one another. I hate the thought of them being separated into many different homes.

I really hope the resources are available to keep them together as much as possible.

 

[Hatfield]

I believe that the reason they went to different hospitals is that the minors went to a pediatric hospital while the adults went to an adult hospital. Also saw in one of the articles that the "adults" were being looked after by Adult Protective Services. APS can generally step in for adults who are considered unable to fend for themselves (frequently elderly persons). One thing to think about as regards where this family ends up is that only six are legally children. This opens some possibilities. Some foster families can take sibling groups (although even six is a bit of a stretch). And in any custody arrangement there would be latitude to allow/require ongoing contact with the adult siblings. And while we are not likely to know for awhile the severity of impact on the adult siblings (I have a hard time calling them "adult children"), one long-term possibility might include one of the older siblings as family custodian. It is entirely possible that one or more of them carried a good bit of the weight of care-giving already. I remember Jaycee Duggard being given a choice about returning to her mother, or being supported as an adult and mother to her children living independently. I will grant that even in her extreme situation she likely had a greater level of emotional maturity and even education than these folks have been able to accrue. But, I'm not yet willing to rule out the possibility of independent lives for these adults.

JMO

Re BBM
Thats a great point. I agree that it is very likely some of the older children were already providing a good deal of care for some of the younger ones.

This may open up some unique possibilities for some potential solutions.

 

[little_miss_smart]

I am more and more persuaded that some children were born who are not included in the current tally of thirteen. On the bankruptcy paperwork in August 2011, the Turpins listed eleven dependents aged 19, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4. If you don't include the eldest known daughter (who would have been 23 at the time) this aligns well with what we know about the next seven children, with the current 17 year old who made the call to 911 being the ten year old on the bankruptcy paperwork. It's among the under-tens circa 2011 that things get strange. The Elvis from the Elvis Chapel who performed the "weddings" in 2011, 2013, and 2015 (-ish?) said that he had seen the family grow -- that "their family kept growing." This suggests to me more than one kid added since 2011. And there are four sons listed on the bankruptcy paperwork, but only three sons in photographs. Did they take the kids to the 2011 "wedding"? Or only to the 2013 and 2015 ones?

If no kids are missing, it means that all of the kids except thee baby in the 2015 wedding photos are over eight years old at the time, and that there is at least an eight year age gap between the baby and the next youngest kid.

I'm wondering if there were up to two more born between 2007 and 2015 and if up to two (possibly including one boy) of the as many as seven born 2002 and later is/are missing. They moved to the Muir Woods house in 2010. I'm hoping the smell in the house is feces and nothing even worse.

On the bankruptcy order are there 4 boys named? That means at least 1 is missing, because there are only 3 in the videos and pictures we've seen. I dread to think what has become of him, it could be that they left him at home, too weak or something. I'm speculating because who knows. I'm sure it will come out soon.

 

[Inthedetails]

DNA testing isn't that fast.

There are other ways. There could be birth certificates/medical records of the mother's pregnancies and births. And, can't a doctor determine if a woman has given birth? They probably can tell if the older daughters have been pregnant/delivered a baby. (My guess is that the older females might not even be menstruating due to malnutrition.)

I'm accepting the reports that the children are from the mother and father, unless something is updated from official sources.

jmopinion

 

[blue22]

There are other ways. There could be birth certificates/medical records of the mother's pregnancies and births. And, can't a doctor determine if a woman has given birth? They probably can tell if the older daughters have been pregnant/delivered a baby. (My guess is that the older females might not even be menstruating due to malnutrition.)

I'm accepting the reports that the children are from the mother and father, unless something is updated from official sources.

jmopinion

I would not be surprised if the mom had no medical intervention during her pregnancies, and birthed at home unassisted. I don't expect many medical records on her or the children.

JMO