CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #3

[ninij9]

Director at Mosque Farook attended two years ago speaks out. Nothing huge revealed but it is interesting, this guy seems sane/normal too which is a nice change:

[video=youtu;eAdbaXL60NY]http://youtu.be/eAdbaXL60NY[/video]

It's telling that he was a regular member then suddenly stopped attending 2 years ago.

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[Gigi-G]

In the other post, someone asked what the point was if you were going to end up dead in the street.

The people you see committing these acts are groomed and moulded to see death as the ultimate sacrifice, a direct line to glory. They're being groomed that way because the core of ISIS see "foreign fighters" as cannon fodder. Their purpose is to spread fear and turn people against each other, because you have no idea if that guy sat next to you on the train is reaching into his backpack for his iPod, or his detonator. If that loving mother over there is concealing a rifle in her child's pushchair.

ISIS don't care if the cannon fodder dies because there are always more disillusioned, lost, lonely desperate, empty people to manipulate. And you don't even need that many to get nations tearing themselves apart, and to start having an economic impact. Look at Egypt over the Metrojet crash; they desperately needed it to be an accident because tourism is hugely important to them. So they totally screwed their handling and now they look worse than if they'd just admitted it earlier and made visible efforts to tighten up. I've got 5 or 6 friends who regularly went to Sharm on holiday, but won't be going in 2016, or maybe ever again. Differences of opinion mean that nations can't even agree on how to tackle ISIS, Russia is focused on propping up Assad and bombs all the rebels, regardless. Turkey shoots down a Russian jet and NATO clenches it's buttocks. EU nations start building fences to shut their borders.

Couldn't of put it better.... fear breeds fear. And fear is ISIS' game.
Add to that the point where we have lack of confidence in our LE.
Doesn't make for much positivity in the general population.

 

[CARIIS]

Isn't May about the time their baby was born? Just an interesting look at the timing of the sale.

Also, is the WSJ paywalled or free to e subscribe?

how much did they get for it hummmmm fudning source

be interesting to figure out when he stated getting all his "packages"

very good point

CSi -- very interesting

say an article I am gonna try to find now would love to know the date

most intersting TY

hold on

if you would like to speak to the bomb deartment press 1

if you are looking for magazine press2

if you are looking for tactical gear press 3

 

[Elley Mae]

Isn't May about the time their baby was born? Just an interesting look at the timing of the sale.

Also, is the WSJ paywalled or free to e subscribe?

subscribe, on occasion I can an article then go back and it is closed and asking for you to subscribe.

 

[Sonya610]

This is a good theory also because of the lack of those bomb-vests and that they didn't shoot themselves after like many do.

Jihadists don't shoot themselves. They might blow themselves up so they can take OTHERS out in the process but committing suicide as a single/personal act is forbidden.

 

[bluesneakers]

In light of her Red Mosque connections I really believe she radicalized him. But he had to be ripe for it as well. What makes a successful, American born, supposedly decent person take on third world ideology and destroy his and his own child's future? Because I understand (almost) foreign terrorists. They hate what they don't understand. They hate what they don't have. This guy, this guy was raised here. Not wanting for food, shelter or education
We need to get to this root of how she persuaded him, to learn to fight this.

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Most of the mass shooters were born here, weren't they? Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh were American terrorists who could have had all the same things. Their crimes were not about hating what they didn't have. I think it goes much deeper than that. It's a twisted worldview, an ideology, anger, hate... I don't know. I wish someone could figure this out and find a way to stop them before they head down that path.

 

[Ellie9]

It's telling that he was a regular member then suddenly stopped attending 2 years ago.

There's a lot to the theory that the wife radicalized him. Seems like everything began changing with her, and she must have been radicalized in her country (Saudi Arabia if I'm hearing correctly, even though she was born in Pakistan).

 

[CARIIS]

how much did they get for it hummmmm fudning source

be interesting to figure out when he stated getting all his "packages"

very good point

CSi -- very interesting

say an article I am gonna try to find now would love to know the date

most intersting TY

hold on

if you would like to speak to the bomb deartment press 1

if you are looking for magazine press2

if you are looking for tactical gear press 3

not finding it yet . But.. it said that there was one day (date is what I want) there where so mnay packages, that the ups guy had to help get them inside. The ups was trying to make some conversation and he said something like preparing for christmas and the driver said he just "glared"back .

It would be neat to know if this was after or around May!

 

[Sonya610]

Couldn't of put it better.... fear breeds fear. And fear is ISIS' game.
Add to that the point where we have lack of confidence in our LE.
Doesn't make for much positivity in the general population.

ISIS didn't plan this event but nevertheless it will probably be extremely devastating to the state of the nation.

Slaughtering the co-workers that gave him a baby shower is cold and it WILL make many people uneasy around many Muslims in the work place etc... It won't effect everyone but it will definitely raise some eyebrows.

Then to top it off those guys at his mosque were uber creepy, they didn't even try to condemn the act or show a hint of sympathy for the victims. Their reaction strongly implies they are fine with what he did, and if they are fine with it how many others are too?

Anyone that watches the interviews and pays attention has to realize that we have a problem, and it is much bigger than the odd radical crazy.

 

[CARIIS]

Most of the mass shooters were born here, and white

and american

 

[K_Z]

It's always surprising to me that people are amazed that an immigrant terrrorist could "slip thru" or "sail thru" our vetting processes (vetting being the new buzz word), or our LEGAL immigration processes. In fact, that is exactly what I would predict, that they would sail right thru. Criminals and terrorists aren't stupid! They want to SUCCEED at their murderous plans, right? So you choose people who won't arouse ANY suspicion, who have a history of being peaceful and law abiding, etc. And yes, it's obviously easier and less suspicious to use something like a K1 visa process than other immigration pathways.

It's WE who are stupid and trusting, who make judgements about who is "less" of a risk (like a citizen with no criminal or radical history bringing home his young internet bride-- FROM PAKISTAN, with her and her father's history in Saudi Arabia. That should have been easy to discover, before she was granted that K1 visa.). Our own policies are part of the problem, and of course, those who wish to do us harm WILL exploit our weaknesses. Why would any of us expect that a potential terrorist would have some huge electronic and criminal background??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...through-us-visa-process/ar-AAg2rMu?li=BBnb7Kz

I'm sure not an expert at setting up criminal and terrorist sleeper cells, but if I were, I'd choose people with NO history of any kind. I might even plan to immigrate children with the intent and plan to groom them here on American soil, and WAIT for them to be old enough to carry out a terrorist mission.

All of our background checks rely on feeding someone's biometrics thru databases looking for PAST problems-- and some of these data bases WE do not control. That's exactly why they are doomed to fail. They are a nice place to start, okay-- but will do absolutely nothing to keep any of us safer from this kind of radical islamic terrorism.

The *only* thing that works is robust and ongoing profiling, and tracking-- whether we're talking about gangs in the inner city, or radical islamic terrorists. And that is disturbing and unpalatable to a large swath of our ultra liberal citizens. But it DOES work. Israel is proof. (And I believe our ultra liberal citizens need and should have robust protection from terrorism, too, even if I disagree with their philosophy! They'll be ALIVE to debate, and that's enough for me.)

The FBI has been profiling and surveilling various individuals and groups for decades upon decades, and has prevented and eliminated thousands upon thousands of violent crimes.

And yes, I know "white guys" commit acts of terror-- and we should continue to surveil those domestic individuals and groups, too. But this thread is devoted to the most recent radical islamic terrorist attacks, so that's what my remarks are focused on.

We CAN prevent new threats from entering our country, with enough will of the people to elect leaders who will protect us, and make laws and policies to protect us. And we now have to continue to deal with the threats we already have here, due to our failed policies and failed leadership, IMO.

 

[Momoffourboys]

What appalls me is how you can take my post and completely turn it around. You are equating religious intolerance with with religious fanatisim. The first promotes distrust and separatism, I don't like this either. But the second are encouraging their followers to bliw up and kill Americans just because we are American. These animals killed Muslim as well as everyone else on 9/11. It is your right to feel this way. It is my right to disagree.


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Thank you!!!

 

[Sonya610]

Most of the mass shooters were born here, and white

and american

Difference is I don't know any organizations actively encouraging/training white male mass murders or glorifying them when they commit mass shootings. Those shooters are lone wolves.

In this case ISIS is not only recruiting them they are claiming to ship them into the country.

 

[Gigi-G]

That's fine honestly all 24 hours news stations are bad at emphasizing scary events and proposing scary scenarios with little evidence.
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I think that becuz we are online 24/7 . News Media have to jostle for viewing numbers. Its all in the ratings. So they're basically like us here... They throw stuff in the air. Rounded information. Discuss with others. And try different avenues to get to the nitty gritty bits. Just they have a gag on reporting certain things.. as per yesterday in the free for all at Farook's apartment.
But basically down deep wouldn't you just take a sneak peek given half the Chance.
To try and levy some sense out of the entire situation. As it stands only small amounts of info is coming to light.
Yes as 'public' we have a right to anonymity and privacy.
But I think if you have been party to a mass murdering. And therefore deceased due to your crime. Then you lose your right to all of these.

Sorry just moo.

 

[ninij9]

What's with the beard thing? Half the men in the country are growing beards right now!


For the sake of clarity, let's cut and paste another religion:
A Christian pastor is supposed to report to the FBI if a parishioner goes to church more often? Less often? Gets a hairdo like Joseph? Wants to be sainted when s/he dies? Gets obsessed with the crusades? Gets a new girlfriend and starts reading the holy book more frequently? Gets other parishioners whipped up about the Christian god? Goes to bible camp?

Only when his religion has extremist offshoots whos agenda is to cause worldwide Terrorism. I think that it is unrealistic to assume that mosques can really police or should police their faithful. However if an imam sees something that concerns him, why is it wrong to intervene? Perhaps help redirect someone that was being radicalized?

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[Foxfire]

Did anyone see hannity last night?
I caught just part of it and I have searched it's not posted yet, but he made a comment about x number of employees with homeland security (I think he said) being on the terrorist watch list!
Anyone see this? Could this really be true?

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...r-watch-list-received-tsa-security-clearance/
WASHINGTON (CBS DC) — A Homeland Security Departmentinvestigation finds that 73 airport workers got security clearance from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) even though the employees were on a terror watch list.

The Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security(DHS) found that TSA officials responsible for vetting every application for airport security credentials did not have access to terrorist watch list data, CBS News reports. In addition, thousands of aviation employees across the country were found to have provided “incomplete or inaccurate” records – including those for 75,000 immigrants.

The inspector general’s report found that 73 airport employees, including airline workers, airport vendors and other individuals with access to secure sections of commercial U.S. airports, were flagged on U.S. terrorist watch list data.
<Snipped - read more>

 

[bluesneakers]

Only when his religion has extremist offshoots whos agenda is to cause worldwide Terrorism. I think that it is unrealistic to assume that mosques can really police or should police their faithful. However if an imam sees something that concerns him, why is it wrong to intervene? Perhaps help redirect someone that was being radicalized?

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Would you expect a priest, rabbi, or pastor to do the same? I think it's breaking a bond to report a congregant to the authorities.

 

[JLSChook]

Possibly but we should keep in mind fox news had a bad reputation of using scare tactics to further political agenda.

They're not wrong about everything, but they should be taken with a big grain of salt.


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LOL! Yeah, CNN and MSNBC are soooo reliable and honest. No scare tactics there.

:facepalm:

 

[Gigi-G]

What's with the beard thing? Half the men in the country are growing beards right now!


For the sake of clarity, let's cut and paste another religion:
A Christian pastor is supposed to report to the FBI if a parishioner goes to church more often? Less often? Gets a hairdo like Joseph? Wants to be sainted when s/he dies? Gets obsessed with the crusades? Gets a new girlfriend and starts reading the holy book more frequently? Gets other parishioners whipped up about the Christian god? Goes to bible camp?

Yes! What is it with all these men growing a beard now. All denominations. And all very thick beards.
I'm scared of beards if yr under 50. Idk. I always seemed to think when ISIS first came on the scene.. clean cut men were okay. And to avoid bearded ones..... social profiling again... not good I know. But that's how my mind perceives things. Ughhh.

I hate ISIS and what it stands for. I have many Muslim friends. And I don't like the way ISIS genetically profiles people to their respective.
They single handedly have brought out Islamaphobia. Now quiet respectful peaceful Muslims feel tarred with the same brush.
How awful that must feel for them.

 

[Dockins]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...r-watch-list-received-tsa-security-clearance/
WASHINGTON (CBS DC) &#8212; A Homeland Security Departmentinvestigation finds that 73 airport workers got security clearance from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) even though the employees were on a terror watch list.

The Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security(DHS) found that TSA officials responsible for vetting every application for airport security credentials did not have access to terrorist watch list data, CBS News reports. In addition, thousands of aviation employees across the country were found to have provided &#8220;incomplete or inaccurate&#8221; records &#8211; including those for 75,000 immigrants.

The inspector general&#8217;s report found that 73 airport employees, including airline workers, airport vendors and other individuals with access to secure sections of commercial U.S. airports, were flagged on U.S. terrorist watch list data.
<Snipped - read more>

It's not just our TSA, same thing at airports internationally. Here is an article about Charles de Gaulle in Paris.
http://nypost.com/2015/11/29/dozens-of-paris-airport-workers-on-terror-watch-list-report/