Found Deceased CA - Audrey Moran, 26, & Jonathan Reynoso, 28, Riverside County, 10 May 2017 #1

[Force Ten]

I looked back and I'm not sure where I got the 4pm time. Usually I don't remember something this specific, if I didn't see it--but can't find the reference.

The roommate did say afternoon, so this could be anywhere from 1 - 4, I guess. Then there is the pizza order at 6. And the reason I take that pizza order seriously is that it seems that JDR's mother references it in her timeline of him, in the first interview with KMIR--when she says that the only way JDR could have gone to Brawley and come back, was if he flew. It seemed by that statement that she believed he did order the pizza. But this is an inference made by me. She never clarifies this.

On the McStay family disappearance there was the vehicle captured on a neighbor's surveillance, that was thought to be the McStay Trooper. Only after an arrest is made, over 3 years later do we find out that the vehicle captured leaving could NOT have been the Trooper. This one piece of erroneous information had on-line sleuths looking in the wrong direction for years.

What I've noticed in a lot of these missing person's cases is that for whatever reason, trying to pin down a fact and verify it, is almost a fool's errand.

I have a feeling Brawley, may be the McStay Trooper sighting of this case.

Brawley just doesn't fit in.

However, if JDR is unemployed at this time. Watching his pennies very carefully, then he really may have stayed home all afternoon. Ordered a pizza and then went out for some reason. When I've been broke, usually going out meant going to a friend's place. So I wonder if he did land at someone's home. Maybe a new friend, met recently, not on anyone's radar...

But again, JDR's activities, before meeting up with Audrey, may turn out to be irrelevant to the disappearance. There are just so many unknowns.

I would say the Brawley notion would be closer to the ditching of the Trooper at the border as to cloud things. Beaumont too. But the scent tracking them there is bothersome as well. I really put a lot of faith in track dogs. It's easier for the handler to miss a signal from a dog than it is for a dog to miss a scent, or be confused. Does that make sense? In most cases I've read about, it is the handler who makes mistakes. I believe these dogs typically have years of training before going into the field. There is an expert dog handler/trainer who is a member here, I'll reach out to him and see if they can give their input.

Someone earlier mentioned about AM and JR going directly to Beaumont the night of the disappearance. While there is no eyewitness to pinpoint exactly when it was left, there was a motorist who frequents that route that reported on the Find Audrey Moran FB they saw the vehicle at 6:30 AM on Friday. It could have sat there all night Wednesday and into Friday without anyone noticing. But this motorist did not report seeing it Thursday, just Friday. It's just a little thing but I think it's a crucial part if her vehicle was kept someplace for a whole day and that would mean they were as well.

 

[BritYoung 802]

I would say the Brawley notion would be closer to the ditching of the Trooper at the border as to cloud things. Beaumont too. But the scent tracking them there is bothersome as well. I really put a lot of faith in track dogs. It's easier for the handler to miss a signal from a dog than it is for a dog to miss a scent, or be confused. Does that make sense? In most cases I've read about, it is the handler who makes mistakes. I believe these dogs typically have years of training before going into the field. There is an expert dog handler/trainer who is a member here, I'll reach out to him and see if they can give their input.

Someone earlier mentioned about AM and JR going directly to Beaumont the night of the disappearance. While there is no eyewitness to pinpoint exactly when it was left, there was a motorist who frequents that route that reported on the Find Audrey Moran FB they saw the vehicle at 6:30 AM on Friday. It could have sat there all night Wednesday and into Friday without anyone noticing. But this motorist did not report seeing it Thursday, just Friday. It's just a little thing but I think it's a crucial part if her vehicle was kept someplace for a whole day and that would mean they were as well.

I've also wondered this- if her car was taken to Beaumont, the next day or even early Friday morning. Could've been enough time for someone to clean it/remove any evidence (fingerprints, fibers, etc.) before dumping it.

I wonder if the highway patrol keeps documentation of abandoned vehicles when the pass by one. I'm sure LE has checked into this already.

 

[htiff]

I see what you're saying about a lot of young couples taking a spontaneous outing/trip, but I don't think this was the case here. Didn't reports say the last cell ping was in East CV and her phone powered off around midnight? And by the time she actually picked Jonathan up it'd be after 9:00, then it would take them over an hour to get to Beaumont. So by then it would be past 10:00 (at the earliest). Didn't the news special say Audrey had class the next day? It guess it's POSSiBLE, but I think unlikely that they willingly went to Beaumont at that hour.

I think it's very very possible that LE knows a lot more than they are saying. And I also have a feeling that the timing of the abduction can probably be synced to the drop in phone activity--specifically by Audrey, if it turns out to be true that Jonathan had a wifi only plan.

I too thought that maybe they made a last minute decision to go to someone's house, and maybe something occurred in a residence. Which would mean that all the guilty party would have to do was to ditch the SUV to throw LE off their trail.

I think though, that the fact that in every way this disappearance was out of character for both of them, and that they both have such strong connections to family and friends, indicates that someone they did not know, or know well, did whatever was done.

And I have to think that this was an abduction, as opposed to a fight where someone got killed and the evidence was buried.

I wonder if the SUV was left where it was, just to confuse the search for these two. And if this spot was also a location of convenience. I have nothing really to back this up, but my feeing is that whoever did this may have little or no real tie to the East Coachella Valley, but were basically interlopers looking for trouble that night. Or looking for a victim.

 

[Force Ten]

I wish we could have heard from AM's sister in this last piece. First hand accounts are always the best. I have so many questions about what was actually said to her by AM. She was there for up to 45 minutes. I understand though, maybe she fears for her safety as well.

 

[htiff]

A lot of the following is redundant, but this case really bothers me so I'm sorting through it again.

By process of elimination I think two theories might be ruled out at this time:

1) It's unlikely that Jonathan ever went to Brawley on May 10-in part because no one who knows him believes he would go there-but also the fact that he's still home in the afternoon, and probably at 6 as well. Plus, he was texting with friends that day, and they only notice his absence from the chat at night.

2) Jonathan's phone wasn't used to lure Audrey someplace under false pretenses. If Jonathan did have a wifi only phone plan, it would have been much harder for someone to pretend to be him by way of using his phone to text Audrey, so that probably didn't happen either.


And Audrey's mother spoke to her after Audrey left her sister's and met up with Jonathan. If all these assumptions are correct, this really narrows down when these two ran into trouble. And given the last pings occurred in the East Coachella Valley, that is probably where it all started.

It's really a very narrow window of time and depending on which tower was last pinged--the location must be somewhat clear as well.

One thing that I find very frightening is the idea that whoever did this, is still out there. Because by the nature of the crime, they really may have done this before. And it seems very probable they will do something like this again.

I really hope that LE does know more than they are telling, because not only does it seem very important to find Audrey and Jonathan, but there may be other lives in jeopardy, as well.

 

[Force Ten]

A lot of the following is redundant, but this case really bothers me so I'm sorting through it again.

By process of elimination I think two theories might be ruled out at this time:

1) It's unlikely that Jonathan ever went to Brawley on May 10-in part because no one who knows him believes he would-but also the fact that he's still home in the afternoon, and probably at 6 as well. Plus, he was texting with friends that day, and they only notice his absence from the chat at night.

2) Jonathan's phone wasn't used to lure Audrey someplace under false pretenses. If Jonathan did have a wifi only phone plan, it would have been much harder for someone to pretend to be him by way of using his phone to text Audrey, so that probably didn't happen either.


And Audrey's mother spoke to her after Audrey left her sister's and met up with Jonathan. If all these assumptions are correct, this really narrows down when these two ran into trouble. And given the last pings occurred in the East Coachella Valley, that is probably where it all started.

It's really a very narrow window of time and depending on which tower was last pinged--the location must be somewhat clear as well.

One thing that I find very frightening is the idea that whoever did this, is still out there. Because by the nature of the crime, they really may have done this before. And it seems very probable they will do something like this again.

I really hope that LE does know more than they are telling, because not only does it seem very important to find Audrey and Jonathan, but there may be other lives in jeopardy.

Respectfully, I disagree. For one we don't know that his phone was wifi only. Second, if he did whoever was using it could easily go to a free wifi zone (Starbucks) and text AM.

AM's mother did not speak directly to her.

A phone can ping a tower up to a 10 mile radius, so location would not be clear at all unfortunately.

 

[Whiskers16]

A lot of the following is redundant, but this case really bothers me so I'm sorting through it again.

By process of elimination I think two theories might be ruled out at this time:

1) It's unlikely that Jonathan ever went to Brawley on May 10-in part because no one who knows him believes he would go there-but also the fact that he's still home in the afternoon, and probably at 6 as well. Plus, he was texting with friends that day, and they only notice his absence from the chat at night.

2) Jonathan's phone wasn't used to lure Audrey someplace under false pretenses. If Jonathan did have a wifi only phone plan, it would have been much harder for someone to pretend to be him by way of using his phone to text Audrey, so that probably didn't happen either.


And Audrey's mother spoke to her after Audrey left her sister's and met up with Jonathan. If all these assumptions are correct, this really narrows down when these two ran into trouble. And given the last pings occurred in the East Coachella Valley, that is probably where it all started.

It's really a very narrow window of time and depending on which tower was last pinged--the location must be somewhat clear as well.

One thing that I find very frightening is the idea that whoever did this, is still out there. Because by the nature of the crime, they really may have done this before. And it seems very probable they will do something like this again.

I really hope that LE does know more than they are telling, because not only does it seem very important to find Audrey and Jonathan, but there may be other lives in jeopardy, as well.

can you say more about what you mean by this?: "If Jonathan did have a wifi only phone plan, it would have been much harder for someone to pretend to be him by way of using his phone to text Audrey"

when I read it I'm thinking, there are public wifi networks all over the place. wondering what makes you feel it would be much harder to use his phone.

 

[htiff]

can you say more about what you mean by this?: "If Jonathan did have a wifi only phone plan, it would have been much harder for someone to pretend to be him by way of using his phone to text Audrey"

when I read it I'm thinking, there are public wifi networks all over the place. wondering what makes you feel it would be much harder to use his phone.

It wouldn't have been impossible for someone to have signed on to another wifi service, but they couldn't do this from a moving car for example. They would have to stop someplace, sign onto wifi, and go from there.

It just seems unlikely. Unless they are doing so from their home. But then this might be traceable. I actually don't know if LE can trace something like this, but it seems they would be able to, by way of IP addresses (if these are retained by the app you use to have this service)

Also, once someone else has his phone and are trying to sign onto other networks, there may be password issues that come into play as well.

 

[htiff]

Respectfully, I disagree. For one we don't know that his phone was wifi only. Second, if he did whoever was using it could easily go to a free wifi zone (Starbucks) and text AM.

AM's mother did not speak directly to her.

A phone can ping a tower up to a 10 mile radius, so location would not be clear at all unfortunately.

I think you are completely missing the intent of my post. I'm just throwing pasta at the wall to see what sticks.

But to explain my reasoning further---

--Most cell phone towers with 6 sectors have about a 2 to 5 mile radius. It would all depend on which tower, and where it is located. And even a ten mile radius would narrow down the area considerably.

--Audrey's mother seems to be convinced she communicated with her daughter. I agree, it's unclear if she actually spoke to her, but I trust a mother's instincts on something like this.

--It's true that there is no published documentation that JDR's phone was wifi only. I couldn't find confirmation of this. But I have a feeling 2bees is right. There's a lot to indicate that this was the type of service he had.

But, of course, I don't know. I'm just throwing ideas out there, hoping it will spark some memory for someone.

 

[htiff]

Some info on how a phone that is wifi only can be tracked:

https://security.stackexchange.com/...thout-sim-card-be-tracked-localized-by-police

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-create-an-untraceable-messaging-device-with-an-o-1739171742



If Audrey was going to a place to pick JDR up, that she hadn't been to before, I wonder if she used GPS to get there...

 

[Greater Than]

Hi everyone.

For the sake of accuracy, it is unclear whether Audrey's mother actually spoke to her the night she went missing, or if she just communicated with her via text.

The first article below quotes her mother's description of that communication. She used the term "spoke to her," which the interviewer obviously thought meant oral communication since she followed up by asking if she sounded scared. Audrey's father answered "no, because she sent a picture." That could mean 'no, because she didn't actually hear her voice' or 'no, because she then texted a happy picture of them together."

You are welcome to post your opinion of which you feel it was, but please do not state definitively as fact one way or the other. Hopefully Kitty will clarify this in her next piece.

I included a portion of the most recent segment of this news piece below the first one because the BBM jumped out at me. If he had no other group of friends, and this group doesn't believe the whole Brawley trip ever occurred, who are the "several people" investigators spoke to? Thoughts?

Jonathan did not have a car and several people have told investigators he was coming back from Brawley with friends, police say the couple did meet up. Where? No one knows. But that night maria did communicate with Audrey.
"I asked her, 'Mija, where are you?' she texted me from her phone, when I spoke to her," says Maria adding that it was past 8:00 and she told her she was with Jonathan.

When asked if she sounded afraid, her father Jose Luis says, no because she sent a picture. The picture sent from her phone is the one on all the missing fliers. But now we have learned the picture was not taken that day and Audrey did not come home. They thought it was odd Audrey didn't come, but they weren't worried, except for one detail that bothered her sister.

"She says, 'But the thing is is that every time I text, every time I call it's going straight either to voicemail or it says it's not being delivered,' I'm like, 'what do you mean?" says Maria.

http://www.kmir.com/story/35785107/you-ask-we-investigate-mothers-of-missing-couple-demand-answers

His friends say the online rumors about drugs and the unexplained trip to Brawley with a group of friends no one seems to know, bothers them.

"He had no other group of friends," says Tudy.

"This is a guy who when his 24 birthday he was scared cause we went to San Diego for a night and he was scared to get anywhere near Mexico, I mean," says Sean Cardenas, who is soon interrupted by Camacho.

"No they're going to kidnap me, I'm outta here," recalls Camacho Jonathan saying on that San Diego trip.

"We just don't buy the whole Brawley thing, like drug dealing, just out of character," says Cardenas who adds that Jonathan didn't even own a car, so it would have been near impossible for him to carry out that sort of lifestyle.

http://www.kmir.com/story/35830258/you-ask-we-investigate-missing-couples-last-messages

 

[ann1989]

It wouldn't have been impossible for someone to have signed on to another wifi service, but they couldn't do this from a moving car for example. They would have to stop someplace, sign onto wifi, and go from there.

It just seems unlikely. Unless they are doing so from their home. But then this might be traceable. I actually don't know if LE can trace something like this, but it seems they would be able to, by way of IP addresses (if these are retained by the app you use to have this service)

Also, once someone else has his phone and are trying to sign onto other networks, there may be password issues that come into play as well.

I have a sister with wifi only phone all i have 2 do is turn on my hotspot from my phone from her. Very easy now days

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

 

[ann1989]

Hi everyone.

For the sake of accuracy, it is unclear whether Audrey's mother actually spoke to her the night she went missing, or if she just communicated with her via text.

The first article below quotes her mother's description of that communication. She used the term "spoke to her," which the interviewer obviously thought meant oral communication since she followed up by asking if she sounded scared. Audrey's father answered "no, because she sent a picture." That could mean 'no, because she didn't actually hear her voice' or 'no, because she then texted a happy picture of them together."

You are welcome to post your opinion of which you feel it was, but please do not state definitively as fact one way or the other. Hopefully Kitty will clarify this in her next piece.

I included a portion of the most recent segment of this news piece below the first one because the BBM jumped out at me. If he had no other group of friends, and this group doesn't believe the whole Brawley trip ever occurred, who are the "several people" investigators spoke to? Thoughts?





http://www.kmir.com/story/35785107/you-ask-we-investigate-mothers-of-missing-couple-demand-answers




http://www.kmir.com/story/35830258/you-ask-we-investigate-missing-couples-last-messages

Sounds 2 me and my opinion only she spoke thru text...

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

 

[ann1989]

Hi everyone.

For the sake of accuracy, it is unclear whether Audrey's mother actually spoke to her the night she went missing, or if she just communicated with her via text.

The first article below quotes her mother's description of that communication. She used the term "spoke to her," which the interviewer obviously thought meant oral communication since she followed up by asking if she sounded scared. Audrey's father answered "no, because she sent a picture." That could mean 'no, because she didn't actually hear her voice' or 'no, because she then texted a happy picture of them together."

You are welcome to post your opinion of which you feel it was, but please do not state definitively as fact one way or the other. Hopefully Kitty will clarify this in her next piece.

I included a portion of the most recent segment of this news piece below the first one because the BBM jumped out at me. If he had no other group of friends, and this group doesn't believe the whole Brawley trip ever occurred, who are the "several people" investigators spoke to? Thoughts?





http://www.kmir.com/story/35785107/you-ask-we-investigate-mothers-of-missing-couple-demand-answers




http://www.kmir.com/story/35830258/you-ask-we-investigate-missing-couples-last-messages

Also phone going to voicemail or not being delivered. I wonder what not being delivered means. I know when my in-laws would go to Mexico their cell coverage sometimes will not work and the call would not be able to be delivered or placed there was like some type of operator message that might be a possibility

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

 

[jnblsm]

I have a sister with wifi only phone all i have 2 do is turn on my hotspot from my phone from her. Very easy now days

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

You beat me to it!
Audrey might have turned her phone into a hot spot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[htiff]

You beat me to it!
Audrey might have turned her phone into a hot spot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Well if something like this happened hopefully LE can trace it.

One thing I'm wondering is if some Search Warrants weren't possible until Riverside took over. Ping data is pretty easy to get, usually. But some of these tech companies can be resistant to giving out data. LE might still be waiting on critical information. Or have only just gotten a hold of it.

From what I read IF JDR was on wifi only and used a server other than that at his home, it might be traceable.

It will be interesting to see.

Regarding what AM's mother meant when she spoke of her contact with AM on May 10 (after AM is thought to have met up with JDR), though it's unclear from the interview on KMIR if the two spoke, the feeling I got from both parents was that they believed it was AM the mother was in contact with. What drove this home, for me, was when the father chimed in about the picture being sent. What AM's parents never say is that they doubted that the text was from their daughter.

When JDR's friends were in doubt about JDR going to Brawley, they were very outspoken about this. As were Audrey's friends in regard to false rumors being spread about her.

I have to think that if Audrey's parents doubted that, that 8ish contact-text or call, was from their daughter-they would have just said so.

But this is perhaps a segment of an interview taken out of context, so it remains to be seen what they did, in fact, mean. And again, if we're all so confused about it, maybe that's due to their uncertainty...

Time. Will. Tell.

I think this case will be solved in the near future. Can't back this up with anything factual. I just think so.

 

[htiff]

On a kind of unrelated note, I am now addicted to Kitty Alvarado's posts and reports. She mentioned Audrey and Jonathan today, as this is the two month anniversary of their disappearance. But she also posted a heartwarming, local story with this.

Don't live in that region, but I really enjoy her coverage. It's nice to see someone who cares this much about the community she is reporting on.

 

[annamolly]

I don't mean for this to sound snarky, but how can mom or dad infer it was her when it sounds like it was a very simple text response and a random picture. I understand they want to believe the best for her, but anyone could type a response like "I am with Jonathon" and it not be Audrey. The only thing this does is show if it wasn't her, the person who did text that knew who he was and that the proper response would be to say she were with him.
The timing of that and the strange pings makes me believe they encountered trouble early on and that person possibly saw her mom asking where she was and sent that to not raise suspicion while they did whatever they intended. The picture may have been sent to even imply he was the perp(I do not think he was, but used as a ploy by the real perp), once her family realized she were missing/in trouble. This still has me thinking this was either done or set up by someone who knew one or both of them.

 

[Force Ten]

I don't mean for this to sound snarky, but how can mom or dad infer it was her when it sounds like it was a very simple text response and a random picture. I understand they want to believe the best for her, but anyone could type a response like "I am with Jonathon" and it not be Audrey. The only thing this does is show if it wasn't her, the person who did text that knew who he was and that the proper response would be to say she were with him.
The timing of that and the strange pings makes me believe they encountered trouble early on and that person possibly saw her mom asking where she was and sent that to not raise suspicion while they did whatever they intended. The picture may have been sent to even imply he was the perp(I do not think he was, but used as a ploy by the real perp), once her family realized she were missing/in trouble. This still has me thinking this was either done or set up by someone who knew one or both of them.

For me, it all probably went south when Jon wasn't texting/messaging his friends back. Even they acknowledged it seemed uncharacteristic of him. I wonder if it was around 7, or 9 when he met Audrey.

 

[BritYoung 802]

Does anyone have a link to the source that reports Jonathan's phone would only let him communicate via wifi? Not doubting it, just don't want to keep assuming this unless there's a source to back it up.

Also, Jonathan could have also had one of those prepaid phones, maybe to use in case he needed to actually call someone. Maybe he just used wifi for texting and social media since it's free.