CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #12

[GordianKnot]

Yes, you're right - I misquoted. We're down to just Ewasko (and boy would it be weird if it's him).

In Barbara's case, I do not think dental records or DNA are on file (per the State DoJ file).

The only way that they'll get a match via DNA is if all the missing persons have DNA on file (which many do not). This is something we discussed quite a bit in the early days of Barbara going missing. Her file is incomplete and unless her husband submits something with DNA to the Sheriff, her DNA is not going to be in the file. At this point, we have no idea if any viable source of Barbara's DNA is still around.

BBM:

That can't possibly be right...can it?

I'm flabbergasted that LE may not have BT's dental records and/or DNA on file, especially given the location from which she reportedly went missing and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

If not, is that due to some inexplicable oversight on LE's part, or has someone refused to release them?

If push comes to shove, LE can always get one of her blood relatives to provide DNA to check for a familial match.

It would make it pretty tough for LE to rule out potential matches for BT without DNA or dental records.

JMO.

 

[Seajay]

BBM:

That can't possibly be right...can it?

I'm flabbergasted that LE may not have BT's dental records and/or DNA on file, especially given the location from which she reportedly went missing and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

If not, is that due to some inexplicable oversight on LE's part, or has someone refused to release them?

If push comes to shove, LE can always get one of her blood relatives to provide DNA to check for a familial match.

It would make it pretty tough for LE to rule out potential matches for BT without DNA or dental records.

JMO.

Yeh, I don’t see much cooperation coming from RT in the DNA department but if her son supplied his DNA or had something of hers that had DNA on it, that would help. Can LE get dental records without next of kin consent? Of course, they would need the name of her dentist in the very least. JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Yeh, I don’t see much cooperation coming from RT in the DNA department but if her son supplied his DNA or had something of hers that had DNA on it, that would help. Can LE get dental records without next of kin consent? Of course, they would need the name of her dentist in the very least. JMO

HIPAA Rules for Dentists

Looks like dental records are considered protected health records under federal HIPAA law, so absent a warrant or a signed release from BT, then I don't think LE could access those records.

JMO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I am suggesting that all efforts be focused on a similar recovery strategy used with Paul Miller. Special drones synched with geospatial software can "collect" images and machine learning will analyze and flag possibilities. The technology is amazing, and should be deployed in Barb's search. Wings of Mercy is a great volunteer org for this purpose.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, you're right - I misquoted. We're down to just Ewasko (and boy would it be weird if it's him).

In Barbara's case, I do not think dental records or DNA are on file (per the State DoJ file).

The only way that they'll get a match via DNA is if all the missing persons have DNA on file (which many do not). This is something we discussed quite a bit in the early days of Barbara going missing. Her file is incomplete and unless her husband submits something with DNA to the Sheriff, her DNA is not going to be in the file. At this point, we have no idea if any viable source of Barbara's DNA is still around.

Wouldn't that cast huge suspicion on a spouse if the spouse of a missing person refused to give LE some items containing the victim's DNA? All they would need is her hair brush or toothbrush, not-yet-laundered clothing she'd worn, etc? If dental records are protected, and the spouse is unwilling to disclose who the missing person's dentist was, then does all of this mean a spouse who didn't want police to know if they'd found their spouse's body, would only need to be uncooperative and then voila, they'd never be able to ID the body? In this case I'm imagining that even if BT's husband didn't give any samples of his wife's DNA (hair brush or whatever), they have her son to go to.. but what of those who don't have children? Surely it can't be that easy to just get away with potential murder? imo.

 

[BeachSky]

Remains can be identified through jewelry sometimes.
She has on a wedding band in this photo IMO .

 

[Seajay]

HIPAA Rules for Dentists

Looks like dental records are considered protected health records under federal HIPAA law, so absent a warrant or a signed release from BT, then I don't think LE could access those records.

JMO.

Well, that pretty much messes that up. I guess if they have to, they can get a search warrant but RT would need to watch out because it could include his home and anything in it. Don’t know if he’d want that. It might behoove him to cooperate with this. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

View attachment 227640
Remains can be identified through jewelry sometimes.
She has on a wedding band in this photo IMO .

I had gone looking earlier to see what I could find about this subject of identifying body parts/bones, etc, and came across this note from a person who says she lost her dad.. he had been in beginning stages of dementia and had wandered.. they discovered his body a year or so later, and they knew it was him because of what was found with the remains (his ID, wedding ring, etc).. but because the body itself could not be confirmed to belong to him (couldn't get DNA because the body had been exposed for so long?? (not sure this makes sense??)) and since dentist info could not be provided, the remains remained on record as 'john doe'. Can't say this is a true story since it's the internet, but makes one wonder?? Seems completely alien in this day and age??
Three ways to identify a body when DNA is not an option | The Forensic Outreach Library

 

[LietKynes]

Wouldn't that cast huge suspicion on a spouse if the spouse of a missing person refused to give LE some items containing the victim's DNA? All they would need is her hair brush or toothbrush, not-yet-laundered clothing she'd worn, etc? If dental records are protected, and the spouse is unwilling to disclose who the missing person's dentist was, then does all of this mean a spouse who didn't want police to know if they'd found their spouse's body, would only need to be uncooperative and then voila, they'd never be able to ID the body? In this case I'm imagining that even if BT's husband didn't give any samples of his wife's DNA (hair brush or whatever), they have her son to go to.. but what of those who don't have children? Surely it can't be that easy to just get away with potential murder? imo.

True.
Her son might be willing to help with providing dna.
He'd be the only one, though.

View attachment 227640
Remains can be identified through jewelry sometimes.
She has on a wedding band in this photo IMO .

Good catch !

Well, that pretty much messes that up. I guess if they have to, they can get a search warrant but RT would need to watch out because it could include his home and anything in it. Don’t know if he’d want that. It might behoove him to cooperate with this. IMO

Agreed.
Also bumping for Barbara.
Too bad they never searched the truck and RV that same day !
So much time has gone by and evidence lost.

The week after she went missing the LE on this case said they had not found any evidence.
Their exact words.
Not 'clues' or 'missing person's items'.
Evidence.
They changed from their initial statements.

 

[bowler]

True.
Her son might be willing to help with providing dna.
He'd be the only one, though.


Good catch !


Agreed.

Is it known what the Hubby has been up to? Too quiet...

Also bumping for Barbara.
Too bad they never searched the truck and RV that same day !
So much time has gone by and evidence lost.

The week after she went missing the LE on this case said they had not found any evidence.
Their exact words.
Not 'clues' or 'missing person's items'.
Evidence.
They changed from their initial statements.

 

[tacosandkayaking]

True.
Her son might be willing to help with providing dna.
He'd be the only one, though.


Good catch !


Agreed.
Also bumping for Barbara.
Too bad they never searched the truck and RV that same day !
So much time has gone by and evidence lost.

The week after she went missing the LE on this case said they had not found any evidence.
Their exact words.
Not 'clues' or 'missing person's items'.
Evidence.
They changed from their initial statements.

Why has is been said that they don’t have a DNA profile for her?

 

[Jo in Calif]

So why couldn't they just identify her through dental records? My guess is they also have her DNA.

Barbara Thomas

 

[10ofRods]

View attachment 227640
Remains can be identified through jewelry sometimes.
She has on a wedding band in this photo IMO .

If this broken apart, mostly skeletal set of remains still had any personal effects, then LE can go to court with their suspicion that the person is dead (privacy rights die with the individual) and get the dental records - it will take a while if that's the route they go.

In fact, it would seem that in the last month or two (can't remember when I last checked the info), the CA DoJ does have dental records on Barbara. Being a missing person (officially) gives the State the ability to request dental x-rays to be maintained in a State file:

Barbara Thomas

So, if there are teeth among these remains, they can ID. I don't think it's Barbara (unless she actually was abducted or some other scenario than the one we 've been given is in play).

 

[BeachSky]

Jo in Calif
Just posted before you
This: Barbara Thomas

STATE OF CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

MISSING SINCE:
07/12/2019
SEX:
Female
DOB:
06/11/1950
RACE:
White
HEIGHT:
5' 9"
EYES:
Green
WEIGHT:
130 lbs.
HAIR:
Blonde
CLOTHING:
Black bra and underwear, black tall socks, tan hiking boots, and a white hat
DENTAL X-RAYS AVAILABLE:
Yes

Barbara was last seen on July 12, 2019.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Jo in Calif
Just posted before you
This: Barbara Thomas

STATE OF CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

MISSING SINCE:
07/12/2019
SEX:
Female
DOB:
06/11/1950
RACE:
White
HEIGHT:
5' 9"
EYES:
Green
WEIGHT:
130 lbs.
HAIR:
Blonde
CLOTHING:
Black bra and underwear, black tall socks, tan hiking boots, and a white hat
DENTAL X-RAYS AVAILABLE:
Yes

Barbara was last seen on July 12, 2019.

20k missing persons in California alone! Wow!
California Missing Persons

 

[Seajay]

It’s definitely good to know there are dental records so if she’s found, she will be inventoried, if the skull is found. FWIW

 

[RANCH]

Also bumping for Barbara.
Too bad they never searched the truck and RV that same day !
So much time has gone by and evidence lost.

SBM

I thought RT cooperated with LE. Maybe they asked to search the RV and truck with his consent and he allowed it.

JMO

 

[crussell821]

SBM

I thought RT cooperated with LE. Maybe they asked to search the RV and truck with his consent and he allowed it.

JMO

Same.
People saying that RT isn’t cooperating with LE, that he wouldn’t want his home searched, etc is going to push us towards a thread closure again. MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

SBM

I thought RT cooperated with LE. Maybe they asked to search the RV and truck with his consent and he allowed it.

JMO

That RT is not cooperating or didn't cooperate is completely unsubstantiated. We know he took a polygraph which means LE was asking questions and RT volunteered to be there (since he wasn't ever under arrest). We know LE looked at his camera because he told the VI this and the VI verified there were pictures from that day. We don't know exactly what he said to LE that day or in the days following, we don't know what he freely gave LE access to (his house, his truck, his phone, his RV) and we don't know what LE took advantage of (did they search and to what extent). I would be willing to bet however that if RT had refused them access to the RV LE would have gotten a warrant and we would know about that.

Most likely: BT got lost or had an accident/incident and is within a mile or so from where she was last seen, in a place that has already been searched, like most people who go missing. Just this week- Selena Not Afraid was 10 minutes walk from where her friend said she was last seen in an area that had been searched by dozens of people on foot and from the air with drones, helicopters and dogs. Something about expired people make them very hard to find in a short period of time.

 

[Seajay]

dbm