Found Deceased CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #14

[Lilibet]

bbm
It'd be good to hear from LE how close she was found to the rock formation -- rather than from a family member -- as that would be official.
The same way we all rely on msm for an accurate report.

LE have not said where exactly she was and also why the searchers missed her when they used HRD dogs.
If, let's say, she was close as in a mile (& LE have not said she was that close), how did they miss her ?
I'm interested in what clothing was found with her as well as which shoes and did she have a drink container with her as described ?
So many questions.
But I believe LE know this.
So there's still hope that there'll be answers for Barbara's son and the VI (Barbara's nephew).
MOO

Yes, I’d like those answers too. By “close to where she was last seen by RT” I mean in the general vicinity of where they were rather than some other place she could not have reached on her own.

 

[katyy]

If anyone's asking , they can quote the VI' statement which gives a window into what the employee thought about the encounter that day.
LE haven't said much since Barbara was found and we have little to go on; including where else they may have traveled that fateful day.
Another member here figured out the mileage from the convenience store to the hiking area which should have put them around 10 am at the rock formation where she vanished.
The 911 call came in around 3:45pm.
For such a hot day, that was a lengthy time for a hike.

Question : Did they spend any time inside the 5th wheel and did they drive somewhere else for a while and then return ?
Did anyone else drive by during that time and see the RV parked there ?
Did they meet up with another pair of hikers ?
Possible but unlikely as LE haven't divulged very much.

I did not say in my post what the employee actually said, just that their reaction was interesting, as people passing through such stores usually do not garner much attention at all.

The VI quoted this so it can be discussed.
There are still elements of this investigation that LE described as a criminal investigation but we don't know to whom LE are referring as they've still kept everything under cover.

It's good to know that LE are still proactive and the case is not officially closed.
Barbara's family needs answers !
Imo.

Regarding where else they may have travelled to that day, I'm sure I remember something about a cave? I can't remember if it was mentioned by the VI but the general gist of what I remember was that RT apparently said that when BT disappeared, after waving his arms etc. he searched at a cave for BT that they had previously visited. I've never been sure if that meant visited that day, or visited on a previous trip. Either way I'd be keen to know where that cave is in relation to where BT went missing, I assume walking distance or else why would RT have thought she could have been there? It would be useful to know how long it would have taken him to walk there and back to the RV in order to account for some of the missing time before the 911 call. If anyone can confirm my memory of a cave being mentioned I'd be grateful so that I know it's not just a false memory I've created!
MOO

 

[Lilibet]

Regarding where else they may have travelled to that day, I'm sure I remember something about a cave? I can't remember if it was mentioned by the VI but the general gist of what I remember was that RT apparently said that when BT disappeared, after waving his arms etc. he searched at a cave for BT that they had previously visited. I've never been sure if that meant visited that day, or visited on a previous trip. Either way I'd be keen to know where that cave is in relation to where BT went missing, I assume walking distance or else why would RT have thought she could have been there? It would be useful to know how long it would have taken him to walk there and back to the RV in order to account for some of the missing time before the 911 call. If anyone can confirm my memory of a cave being mentioned I'd be grateful so that I know it's not just a false memory I've created!
MOO

Yes, @katyy RT did mention searching a cave within the vicinity, thinking BT may have sheltered there from the heat.

 

[Seattle1]

Regarding where else they may have travelled to that day, I'm sure I remember something about a cave? I can't remember if it was mentioned by the VI but the general gist of what I remember was that RT apparently said that when BT disappeared, after waving his arms etc. he searched at a cave for BT that they had previously visited. I've never been sure if that meant visited that day, or visited on a previous trip. Either way I'd be keen to know where that cave is in relation to where BT went missing, I assume walking distance or else why would RT have thought she could have been there? It would be useful to know how long it would have taken him to walk there and back to the RV in order to account for some of the missing time before the 911 call. If anyone can confirm my memory of a cave being mentioned I'd be grateful so that I know it's not just a false memory I've created!
MOO

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

VI post dated July 18, 2019:

[..] they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat but she wasn’t there either.

^^sbm

 

[kkdj]

The employee saw the husband only, so it's possible Barbara was elsewhere.
The description by the employee was interesting, though.
Imo.

Good thinking! I never thought about it like that!

 

[LAhiker]

Regarding where else they may have travelled to that day, I'm sure I remember something about a cave? I can't remember if it was mentioned by the VI but the general gist of what I remember was that RT apparently said that when BT disappeared, after waving his arms etc. he searched at a cave for BT that they had previously visited. I've never been sure if that meant visited that day, or visited on a previous trip. Either way I'd be keen to know where that cave is in relation to where BT went missing, I assume walking distance or else why would RT have thought she could have been there? It would be useful to know how long it would have taken him to walk there and back to the RV in order to account for some of the missing time before the 911 call. If anyone can confirm my memory of a cave being mentioned I'd be grateful so that I know it's not just a false memory I've created!
MOO

I think the "cave" mentioned by RT may have been a shady space enclosed by some of the rocks in the rock formation to which he said they took their walk/short hike.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

Another Death in SoCal Desert Heat (Not same area as Barbara T, so only marginally related,)

April 9, 2021 article,* info from Inyo County Sheriff Ofc. re Death Valley Nat.Pk.**
Alexander Lofgren, 32, & Emily Henkel, 27; "experienced campers " of Tucson, AZ, camping in park's back country.
Sunday Ap 4, expected return date.
Tuesday Ap 6, reported missing.
Date? Left note in car: 2 flat tires: heading to Mormon Point; have 3 days of water.
Thursday Ap 8, SAR spotted them from air.
Friday noon-ish, from ledge, steep cliff, near Willow Creek. Rescued: Woman alive, sent to hosp. Recovered: Man dead.
Temps, high in the 90's F (22.2+ Celsius).

CoD is under investigation, no mention of suspected foul play. Regardless of CoD, sad, sad, sad.
____________________________________________
* Camper dies, woman rescued in Death Valley National Park
** Death Valley N.P. maps
https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/news/upload/Visitor-Guide-2019-Summer.pdf
Maps - Death Valley National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[Herat]

Another Death in SoCal Desert Heat (Not same area as Barbara T, so only marginally related,)

April 9, 2021 article,* info from Inyo County Sheriff Ofc. re Death Valley Nat.Pk.**
Alexander Lofgren, 32, & Emily Henkel, 27; "experienced campers " of Tucson, AZ, camping in park's back country.
Sunday Ap 4, expected return date.
Tuesday Ap 6, reported missing.
Date? Left note in car: 2 flat tires: heading to Mormon Point; have 3 days of water.
Thursday Ap 8, SAR spotted them from air.
Friday noon-ish, from ledge, steep cliff, near Willow Creek. Rescued: Woman alive, sent to hosp. Recovered: Man dead.
Temps, high in the 90's F (22.2+ Celsius).

CoD is under investigation, no mention of suspected foul play. Regardless of CoD, sad, sad, sad.
____________________________________________
* Camper dies, woman rescued in Death Valley National Park
** Death Valley N.P. maps
https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/news/upload/Visitor-Guide-2019-Summer.pdf
Maps - Death Valley National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

There is an update from Sierra Wave News about the couple. It says that she suffered a severe foot injury.

Latest Information on Tucson Couple’s Fatal Death Valley Camping Trip - Sierra Wave: Eastern Sierra News

Daily Mail also has an article and it say he suffered fatal injuries on the attempt to get out. (My guess from the terrain is that they both fell in steep terrain that really needed experienced rappelling and he was killed from the fall)

I've been researching this as I like to visit Death Valley NP and other remote places.

If anyone wants to continue the discussion I'll be happy to make comments, but I don't want to distract from the Barbara Thomas thread this is on, so I won't post more unless there is interest and the mods approve.

 

[Herat]

A very interesting editorial about the Death Valley tragedy.

Cue up the all-knowing Greek Chorus as someone has died in Death Valley

 

[al66pine]

...an update from Sierra Wave News about the couple. It says that she suffered a severe foot injury.
Latest Information on Tucson Couple’s Fatal Death Valley Camping Trip - Sierra Wave: Eastern Sierra News ...
I don't want to distract from the Barbara Thomas thread this is on, so I won't post more unless there is interest and the mods approve.

@Herat sbm Thx for your post w link. I did not intend to go far O/T, but to mention it as a accidental, unfortunate back country/hiking/heat death in SoCal. If the death or events develop as being suspicious, the situation would merit a separate thread, so I'll just leave it at that for now.

RIP Alexander Lofgren; Sending healing thoughts to Emily Henke.

 

[Herat]

The desert territory in which Barbara Thomas perished is vast, and stretches for pehaps 300 x 700 miles, with somewhat similar terrains and overall climate conditions:

Arid, rocky/sand soil lacking year-round creeks or rivers, very sparse and often thorn-filled vegetation, interrupted by rough rocky hills or peaks. All quite hostile to unprepared human travel or habitation.

In a way, rather similar to freezing high mountain climates like the Himalayas.

Accidents and mistakes happen, and even with best intentions or faith in technology, can be fatal.

 

[LietKynes]

The desert territory in which Barbara Thomas perished is vast, and stretches for pehaps 300 x 700 miles, with somewhat similar terrains and overall climate conditions:

Arid, rocky/sand soil lacking year-round creeks or rivers, very sparse and often thorn-filled vegetation, interrupted by rough rocky hills or peaks. All quite hostile to unprepared human travel or habitation.

In a way, rather similar to freezing high mountain climates like the Himalayas.

Accidents and mistakes happen, and even with best intentions or faith in technology, can be fatal.

I always wondered if Barbara had water with her ?
I know her spouse mentioned she had a container or can of beer ... but did she have water as well ?
Some people carry extra water in a backpack.

 

[wary]

I always wondered if Barbara had water with her ?
I know her spouse mentioned she had a container or can of beer ... but did she have water as well ?
Some people carry extra water in a backpack.

My impression is that her husband was carrying the water. That’s fine, as long as they stay together..,

 

[K9Enzo]

My impression is that her husband was carrying the water. That’s fine, as long as they stay together..,

That's what I recall as well. RT had the water and was carrying the weight of the walk/hike. IMO

 

[Kapua]

My impression is that her husband was carrying the water. That’s fine, as long as they stay together..,

And that's all fine if you believe the husband's account of the day's events....

 

[NervousNellie]

When my husband and I hike, he generally carries our water. In retrospect, that's clearly a bad idea, as no one ever intends to get separated yet it happens.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

How far was she found all trail? An experienced hiker would know to stay on trail.

 

[LietKynes]

How far was she found all trail? An experienced hiker would know to stay on trail.

bbm
LE did not say.
The husband's daughter may have guessed in the msm article, and said less than a mile from where the RV was parked ?
Again that's doubtful but it was a theory.
The searchers should have found her much sooner, if that's how close Barbara was.
Imo.

 

[wary]

bbm
LE did not say.
The husband's daughter may have guessed in the msm article, and said less than a mile from where the RV was parked ?
Again that's doubtful but it was a theory.
The searchers should have found her much sooner, if that's how close Barbara was.
Imo.

Three square miles of desert is a lot of territory to search, in my opinion. You look at the terrain, and the vegetation grows in spiny patches that make a maze of random paths, any of which a lost person might take.

 

[rosesfromangels]

How far was she found all trail? An experienced hiker would know to stay on trail.

Unless they were heat stroked and delirious

amateur opinion and speculation