CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[katydid23]

As stated upthread, though, LE in California are not going to do this without a warrant if they even remotely think it's a criminal case. The idea that they would ask permission (the only way they can look anywhere that's private property - and an RV/truck are private property) of an elderly, distraught man...not gonna happen. MOO>

VI said (see PommyMommy's excellent document) that the police had take things from the family home (so, an Arizona search warrant). I'd presume that included the truck and RV - but perhaps too late for clear evidence of Barbara's presence.

I just wonder what they used with the search dog (for her scent).

LE can't just go in someone's house without permission, but family members of missing persons always give permission (or fall under deep suspicion, which may be what led to RT's polygraph and being asked to leave the search area).

I don't agree, that LE won't go into a home for a cursory search, without a warrant. They are covered, when they are called by the homeowner, to help search for someone. That gives them probable cause, because the homeowner has essentially asked for their help, in a 'wellness' check.

The 911 caller is asking LE to come and look for their missing loved one. So LE is then allowed to look in the home, in the surrounding property, including vehicles, for a missing person, or for blood or evidence of an accident or abduction or a struggle.

They do not need a warrant for one cursory, initial search, if they were dispatched by a 911 call from the property dwellers. That 911 call is an agreement in itself, that they are requesting someone to help them search for a missing loved one.

A warrant becomes necessary if they decide to do a more thorough search, with forensics team, etc.

ETA:

When can California police search my home?

This explains the Ca law. There is an exception, for when a child is missing--that is considered exigent circumstances:

Some examples of emergencies that might justify warrantless searches of private homes are:
A report that a resident of the home is missing.

 

[Gigi3]

Where are the statements from Barbaras niece? Is she the VI's brother? I have not seen any information from her at all.

IIRC she was working on becoming verified? I think it was a niece on RTs side not Barbara’s. Anyone remember username?

 

[artsy1]

Where are the statements from Barbaras niece? Is she the VI's sister? I have not seen any information from her at all.

Early on, our VI said he was writing what his sister heard on the phone from RT, so that he could pass it along to us.

 

[Gigi3]

Early on, our VI said he was writing what his sister heard on the phone from RT, so that he could pass it along to us.

Oops! I thought she was referring to the other family member that popped into the forum from time to time. My bad!

 

[Nerissa]

Not sure that it matters. They were going away for a few days, she would have other clothes packed. She could have changed any article of her clothing after they left home.

Yep. It wouldn't be conclusive of anything if she were NOT wearing the red cap or bikini (presumably under her clothes) when leaving the house that morning. She could have changed in the RV later, before their walk

BUT...sure would be neat if we could verify RT's story that she was wearing a red cap that day, & the black bikini last he saw her.

JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

WHAT WE KNOW AND DON'T KNOW (SUMMARIZED - LINKS FOUND ELSEWHERE IN THE THREADS):

What we know as fact:

• LE dispatched initial search time at 3:26 pm on Friday, July 12 per RT's 911 call - gave location as Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill Rd, according to dispatch records.
• RT had his truck and 5th wheel at the scene (call it camper, trailer, etc. - who cares - we spent many pages just talking about what it is) when LE arrived.
• LE and search teams spent 9 days searching for any sign of Barbara in the Mojave Desert.
• LE said no signs of Barbara were found from their searches.
• Barbara had plane/hotel reservations to fly to Hong Kong to visit her sick brother.
• Cellphone service in that part of the desert is spotty at best.
• Temperature was mid 90's to low 100's at the location.
• Barbara and Robert were residents of Bullhead City, Arizona, 2 hours away from where the search took place.
• Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill Rd. is approximately 2.2 miles north of the I-40.
• There is a gas staion/truck stop at the I-40 at exit 107 (Hi-Sierra Oasis).
  
• Most importantly, Barbara is still missing.

What we know from the VI and also RT's niece (not verified yet, I believe) - keep in mind that a lot of this information came from RT or his daughter to Barbara's brother, her niece and her nephew in Hong Kong (3rd party hearsay):

• Barbara does not own a cellphone.
• Barbara and RT married somewhere between 2005 and 2007.
• Barbara is known to walk in the desert in her bikini.
• Barbara and RT live in the desert, and enjoy being out in it.
• RT told the family he called 911 approximately 12 pm.
• Barbara is a strong person.
• Barbara loves her brother, and would have no reason to disappear and not visit him.
• RT told Barbara's family that he already cancelled her trip to Hong Kong within the first 3 days after she was missing.
• Barbara's family last had actual contact her on July 10, when she said she and RT were going camping for a few days.
• No particular camping destination was mentioned by RT.
• A neighbor's surveillance camera shows both RT and BT getting into the vehicle around 8:15 am. So the last time BT was seen by anyone other than RT would have been by that camera.

What RT said himself in interviews:

• RT claims LE told him he was DECEPTIVE on his polygraph (not that he failed it) - which LE won't confirm or deny.
• RT claims LE told him he is the "prime suspect" in her disappearance. (If he committed no crime, why would he be a "suspect".)
• RT claims that Barbara walked a little ways ahead of him back to the 5th wheel while he stopped to take a photograph.
• RT claims that Barbara was abducted, since not much time had passed since they split on the path.
• A reporter ASKS RT if he thinks Barbara could have been taken to Las Vegas. He replies that it's possible, and THEN asks people in Las Vegas to keep an eye out for her. (IIFC, the Las Vegas idea did NOT come out of RT's mouth first.

If anybody can think of what I missed, I will update this. We just seem to keep getting lost in here questioning the same things ad nauseum. Maybe we can move forward into other avenues of thought now to find Barbara.

#TEAMBARBARA

ETA: To add more info

This is awesome, artsy, thank you so much! Unless someone else has already done so, I am going to flag your post to see if we can have it stickied to the beginning of each new thread.

A couple of things:

1. According to sroad, who visited the scene, the intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hill Rd is 6.3 miles north of I-40. CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2
2. This is perhaps debatable and I'll leave it to you to decide whether or not you want to revise, but IMO RT was finished taking the photo when he lost sight of BT.
   • In RT's own words at the :35 mark in the video
     By the time I took the picture, she was continuing on because she wanted to [use?] the RV. And, she rounded the corner and I lost sight of her.
     Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect
   • They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.
     Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

I think it was her nephew ( the VI) who said he thought another family member had said that he called around noon.
He also said his memory was not so great, so he wasn't sure.
I wish we had verification, but all we really have is an opinion so we can't really rely on that. Imo

Our VI received a text message from his sister which he shared here. She is the one who said her memory wasn't the sharpest. MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

IIRC she was working on becoming verified? I think it was a niece on RTs side not Barbara’s. Anyone remember username?

LaurieRaquel is RT's niece who is waiting to become verified. MOO

 

[Gigi3]

LaurieRaquel is RT's niece, who is waiting to become verified. MOO

Pommy to the rescue again! Thanks!

 

[Cherwell]

But back to my earlier post -- hasn't RT gone over every minute of that day to LE -- incl. rest/snack stops ?

I'm sure he has. But none of the details have been made public.

 

[artsy1]

Oh poop, for some reason I can't edit my post.

 

[artsy1]

WHAT WE KNOW AND DON'T KNOW (SUMMARIZED - LINKS FOUND ELSEWHERE IN THE THREADS):

What we know as fact:

• LE dispatched initial search time at 3:26 pm on Friday, July 12 per RT's 911 call - gave location as Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill Rd, according to dispatch records.
• RT had his truck and 5th wheel at the scene (call it camper, trailer, etc. - who cares - we spent many pages just talking about what it is) when LE arrived.
• LE and search teams spent 9 days searching for any sign of Barbara in the Mojave Desert.
• LE said no signs of Barbara were found from their searches.
• Barbara had plane/hotel reservations to fly to Hong Kong to visit her sick brother.
• Cellphone service in that part of the desert is spotty at best.
• Temperature was mid 90's to low 100's at the location.
• Barbara and Robert were residents of Bullhead City, Arizona, 2 hours away from where the search took place.
• Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill Rd. is approximately 6.3 miles north of the I-40.
• There is a gas staion/truck stop at the I-40 at exit 107 (Hi-Sierra Oasis).
  
• Most importantly, Barbara is still missing.

What we know from the VI and also RT's niece (not verified yet, I believe) - keep in mind that a lot of this information came from RT or his daughter to Barbara's brother, her niece and her nephew in Hong Kong (3rd party hearsay):

• Barbara does not own a cellphone.
• Barbara and RT married somewhere between 2005 and 2007.
• Barbara is known to walk in the desert in her bikini.
• Barbara and RT live in the desert, and enjoy being out in it.
• RT told the family he called 911 approximately 12 pm.
• Barbara is a strong person.
• Barbara loves her brother, and would have no reason to disappear and not visit him.
• RT told Barbara's family that he already cancelled her trip to Hong Kong within the first 3 days after she was missing.
• Barbara's family last had actual contact her on July 10, when she said she and RT were going camping for a few days.
• No particular camping destination was mentioned by RT.
• A neighbor's surveillance camera shows both RT and BT getting into the vehicle around 8:15 am. So the last time BT was seen by anyone other than RT would have been by that camera.

What RT said himself in interviews:

• RT claims LE told him he was DECEPTIVE on his polygraph (not that he failed it) - which LE won't confirm or deny.
• RT claims LE told him he is the "prime suspect" in her disappearance. (If he committed no crime, why would he be a "suspect".)
• RT claims that Barbara walked a little ways ahead of him back to the 5th wheel while he stopped to take a photograph.
• RT claims they were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.
  
• RT claims "By the time I took the picture, she was continuing on because she wanted to [use?] the RV. And, she rounded the corner and I lost sight of her".
  
• RT claims that Barbara was abducted, since not much time had passed since they split on the path.
• RT claims he searched for her for an hour before calling 911, including checking out a "cave" they both knew of.
  
• A reporter ASKS RT if he thinks Barbara could have been taken to Las Vegas. He replies that it's possible, and THEN asks people in Las Vegas to keep an eye out for her. (IIFC, the Las Vegas idea did NOT come out of RT's mouth first.

If anybody can think of what I missed, I will update this. We just seem to keep getting lost in here questioning the same things ad nauseum. Maybe we can move forward into other avenues of thought now to find Barbara.

#TEAMBARBARA

 

[artsy1]

What does it mean when WS tells me "message added to multi-quote"? I keep getting that when I try to quote someone. May have something to do with why I couldn't edit that post.

Pommy - the new post also includes your input. Thank you!

 

[Nerissa]

Thanks Artsy1 - so...to harp though: RT SAYS he called 911 @ noon - has that been verified by LE - ?
TIA
If this is true - that's a tight timeline.
Two hours from house takes them to the trail @ 10:15 (if no stops)
They are walking a two mile jaunt, (considering Barbara has a beer in her hand, sounds pretty laid back, slow pace, checking things out, meandering, type of outing)
He says he looked for her @ an hour before calling LE, correct?

I guess I would add: any verification or lack thereof @ his timeline
And how long he stated he looked for her before calling 911

 

[artsy1]

Thanks Artsy1 - so...to harp though: RT SAYS he called 911 @ noon - has that been verified by LE - ?
TIA
If this is true - that's a tight timeline.
Two hours from house takes them to the trail @ 10:15 (if no stops)
They are walking a two mile jaunt, (considering Barbara has a beer in her hand, sounds pretty laid back, slow pace, checking things out, meandering, type of outing)
He says he looked for her @ an hour before calling LE, correct?

I guess I would add: any verification or lack thereof @ his timeline
And how long he stated he looked for her before calling 911

Has not been verified by LE, which is why it is not under known facts.

 

[PommyMommy]

What does it mean when WS tells me "message added to multi-quote"? I keep getting that when I try to quote someone. May have something to do with why I couldn't edit that post.

Pommy - the new post also includes your input. Thank you!

You're welcome.

Multi-quote allows you to collect multiple posts to reply to but keep reading until you're ready to reply. Whereas, when you select "Reply," it takes you directly to the reply box.

Go to the reply box when you have all the posts selected and at the bottom left, you'll see "insert quote." Click on that and all the posts you selected come up; at this point you can remove any you like or insert them all and reply away.

 

[artsy1]

Thanks Artsy1 - so...to harp though: RT SAYS he called 911 @ noon - has that been verified by LE - ?
TIA
If this is true - that's a tight timeline.
Two hours from house takes them to the trail @ 10:15 (if no stops)
They are walking a two mile jaunt, (considering Barbara has a beer in her hand, sounds pretty laid back, slow pace, checking things out, meandering, type of outing)
He says he looked for her @ an hour before calling LE, correct?

I guess I would add: any verification or lack thereof @ his timeline
And how long he stated he looked for her before calling 911

I added the looking for an hour.

 

[IceIce9]

According to the VI, Robert said that people were walking all throughout the area, ruining the crime scene, or something like that. I don't remember if he was talking about LE or the searchers or who he was referring to. Imo

Have police named it a crime scene? Has it been determined there was a crime?

 

[artsy1]

You're welcome.

Multi-quote allows you to collect multiple posts to reply to but keep reading until you're ready to reply. Whereas, when you select "Reply," it takes you directly to the reply box.

Go to the reply box when you have all the posts selected and at the bottom left, you'll see "insert quote." Click on that and all the posts you selected come up; at this point you can remove any you like or insert them all and reply away.

AH, it went away.

 

[artsy1]

Have police named it a crime scene? Has it been determined there was a crime?

No, and that was why it was odd that RT called it a crime scene. Unless it's because he was so sure a crime occurred there - an abduction.

 

[Nerissa]

BTW: a specific & factual timeline will probably always elude us - unless someone who has access to that information comes forward

We don't know what, if any, stops

WE don't have verified times of 911 calls & the arrival of SAR (if we do I'm not aware of it)

That's sure not anyone's fault here...but, it is true that if we aren't going to be privy to that information it might be useless to speculate on it - until we have a FACT

For instance: verified fact he called 911 at noon, that's something to work with (or whatever time the 911 could be verified as a fact)
OR
conversely a verified fact of them being at a store, gas station etc. prior to their walk, again: that's something to work with

It's frustrating for sure

JMO