CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[rosesfromangels]

You're with the wrong ones

Tell me about it!!!!! ; )

 

[10ofRods]

I think you are correct that LE did not look inside the RV and truck at the time of the search.
A previous poster (a verified attorney?) stated that if they had, even with RT's permission, it could possibly cause legal difficulties if this case ever ends up in a courtroom.

Yep. These days, LE can't just ask an old man out in the desert, distraught due to wife missing, if they can poke around in his stuff. I do believe LE must have asked him to produce something to use to scent the dogs, so something of Barbara's must have been brought out. And someone legal did say that early on.

And I think RT knows that as well as I do. He would have had to volunteer that they look inside (and I bet he didn't).

RT's most important alibi would be his camera(s). If there's a new 360 camera plus a camera phone, is there another camera that he would more typically use that isn't new? If the only time stamped photo was on the new camera, I wonder if it was set up properly. Again, can employ "it was new, didn't know how/have time" excuse.

 

[RANCH]

I think you are correct that LE did not look inside the RV and truck at the time of the search.
A previous poster (a verified attorney?) stated that if they had, even with RT's permission, it could possibly cause legal difficulties if this case ever ends up in a courtroom.

What if LE looked inside of the RV with RT's permission and noticed something that could be a bloodstain.

Could they use that to get a warrant to do an extensive forensic search of the RV?

Would any incriminating evidence found after getting the warrant be admissible at trial? JMO

 

[Kapua]

Polygraph tests are not reliable.

SABBM Polygraph tests are not 100% reliable. I did a quick google, and even the experts disagree as to the percentage of accuracy, so I am not going to quote percentages or argue the point. I will just say that 1) in this case, I think the polygraph was spot on, and 2) I don't need a polygraph test to tell me what my nose knows. JMHO

 

[canteloupe]

I still think the kennel is the best place to target our attention, given it is the last independent sighting of Barbara.

I see a silver lining here; the kennel--which from VI details I assume to be the one located near the Laughlin airport-- is located essentially at the end of a funnel with two ways in or out. One route passes by the airport, which has visible security cameras along the perimeter. The second passes through a more industrial park type area, but many of these buildings are labs, schools, and shipping facilities that also have security cameras visible outside.

Each route also forces vehicles through intersections with traffic cameras.

If LE has exhausted SAR functions, perhaps they are devoting their time tracking Robert and Barbara's movements via these cameras.

Regardless of LE focus, these two routes would also make excellent places to place flyers. Small businesses located around these areas may take it upon themselves to review footage if made more alert via local press.

 

[rkendmar]

What if LE looked inside of the RV with RT's permission and noticed something that could be a bloodstain.

Could they use that to get a warrant to do an extensive forensic search of the RV?

Would any incriminating evidence found after getting the warrant be admissible at trial? JMO

I am not a lawyer.
However, I think that it would be likely that the incriminating evidence found after getting the warrant would be considered 'fruit of the poisonous tree' and the evidence would be excluded.
The poisonous tree would be the bloodstain noticed after RT gave verbal permission.'
I could be wrong about this.

 

[rosesfromangels]

SABBM Polygraph tests are not 100% reliable. I did a quick google, and even the experts disagree as to the percentage of accuracy, so I am not going to quote percentages or argue the point. I will just say that 1) in this case, I think the polygraph was spot on, and 2) I don't need a polygraph test to tell me what my nose knows. JMHO

Polygraphs are a much debated subject on these threads. Early in my career, I worked in a capacity that required an extensive background check, and a poly administered by an "agency" trained polygrapher. If you want an idea of what this would look like, watch a Dr. Phil segment with the late Jack Trimarco. He was one of the best in the business.

It is well known that true psychopaths like Ted Bundy could take and pass polys as they completely lacked empathy; defective brains. For the vast majority, a polygraph is a good "directional" indicator for LE; it helps them with an investigation.

An example would be that the polygraph administrator would have asked "calibrating" questions to gauge RT's responsiveness. These questions are designed to upset, and get a reaction. They calibrate that. If all other questions get a "normal" range of response, but "did your wife die in the R.V." gets a reaction, well that's a place they are going to double down on their investigative efforts. (As an example only....)

Think of a polygraph as just one of many helpful tools during an investigation.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[artsy1]

I know I sound like a broken record bringing up that Oasis gas station off the I40 at exit 107, but I think there may be something useful there.

After looking closer at the map a few minutes ago of where the gas station is, I hadn't realized that if you exit from the north side of the property, you get out at the old Route 66 AT Hidden Hill Rd. Yep, the same Hidden Hill Rd that meets Kelbaker Rd where LE was called to on July 12.

If I could, I would search Hidden Hill Rd between Route 66 and Kelbaker Rd for signs of Barbara. IMHO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know I sound like a broken record bringing up that Oasis gas station off the I40 at exit 107, but I think there may be something useful there.

After looking closer at the map a few minutes ago of where the gas station is, I hadn't realized that if you exit from the north side of the property, you get out at the old Route 66 AT Hidden Hill Rd. Yep, the same Hidden Hill Rd that meets Kelbaker Rd where LE was called to on July 12.

If I could, I would search Hidden Hill Rd between Route 66 and Kelbaker Rd for signs of Barbara. IMHO

Can you post a map illustrating this interesting point? Find it on Google instant street view (map or satellite), and post the link.

 

[artsy1]

Can you post a map illustrating this interesting point? Find it on Google instant street view (map or satellite), and post the link.

Google Maps


ETA: This would be assuming Barbara never made it all the way to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill - if she was already missing by the time RT arrived.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Perspective...

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thankyou Artsy and ChuuckMaureen for posting the maps. I will see if I can make anything of them. Interesting, thank you.

 

[artsy1]

Thankyou Artsy and ChuuckMaureen for posting the maps. I will see if I can make anything of them. Interesting, thank you.

You're welcome. I'm trying to figure out where Barbara could be if she never made it to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Perspective...

Was the RV at the "turnout"?

 

[RANCH]

I am not a lawyer.
However, I think that it would be likely that the incriminating evidence found after getting the warrant would be considered 'fruit of the poisonous tree' and the evidence would be excluded.
The poisonous tree would be the bloodstain noticed after RT gave verbal permission.'
I could be wrong about this.

I'm not so sure about that.

In the Lisa Irwin case LE used an HRD dog to search the home with the parents permission and used the alert the dog gave to obtain a search warrant for the Irwin home.

I would think that a judge wouldn't sign a search warrant if it was an illegal search. JMO

Cadaver Dogs 'Hit' in Baby Lisa's Home

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know I sound like a broken record bringing up that Oasis gas station off the I40 at exit 107, but I think there may be something useful there.

After looking closer at the map a few minutes ago of where the gas station is, I hadn't realized that if you exit from the north side of the property, you get out at the old Route 66 AT Hidden Hill Rd. Yep, the same Hidden Hill Rd that meets Kelbaker Rd where LE was called to on July 12.

If I could, I would search Hidden Hill Rd between Route 66 and Kelbaker Rd for signs of Barbara. IMHO

I agree that I would vigorously interview those working at the gas station, and seek any video, if it exists.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

By looking at that map it looks like a long walk back for a female to be walking all alone. How strange that they would separate in such an isolated place.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Was the RV at the "turnout"?

That's what we're told.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Tell me about it!!!!! ; )

Had a few myself

Back onto Barb tho... would be great to understand more about the dynamic in their relationship

 

[artsy1]

Was the RV at the "turnout"?

Supposedly, since that is where the command center was set up.