CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[K9Enzo]

Yet if you could hear other traffic on the road it might just blend in with the noise.
Waving his arms might have caught her attention. If he could not see her, he likely thought she could not see him. People are more likely to notice something moving from a distance than an object that is completely still. Imo

Agree. It makes sense to me why he would wave his arms. He was probably hoping that she would catch a glimpse of something moving in the distance. Calling her name is a natural reaction as well. I even understand his effort to search for her himself before calling LE. His timeframe (an hour I believe) seems reasonable to me.

I thought it was wise when the husband in the Sheryl Powell case started honking his vehicle horn. I also believe he stayed put and did not venture too far out to search for her. He also could do that because he had an PLB, which allowed him to stay on scene and not leave for help. Smart.

It's hard for me personally to criticize RT for his actions here. He was living in the moment and I'm sure thought they would catch back up with each other and be on their way. I'm sure he never imagined this.

I'll gladly eat crow for being wrong about RT but until more official information is released, I'm going with her PLS as where the official SAR operation kicked off.

 

[kkdj]

We also must keep in mind that he gave a detailed description of events to his wife's family, and this additional stop was not amongst that information. I'm not sure how long it took before BT's family was contacted by RT, however I believe it was not right away, so he did have time to think about what to tell them to ensure he left nothing out. I believe BT's niece said it was a long description of events. No reason to keep out the info on the extra stop when he is remembering to mention that BT took the '360 photo', which occurred at that location apparently (unless I have it wrong?).

Iirc he contacted her HK family on the 16th. To say she's not coming and to cancel her hotel reservations.
He had not contacted her son yet and never did. LE contacted him iirc.

 

[LAhiker]

Yes, and it's not just your opinion - it's the opinion of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department based on what RT and apparently the photos he took.

As to parking lot seen with the cars, it was probably the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center, approximately a half mile south of the trail that begins immediately opposite where the RV was parked at the time LE met up with RT.

While it could've been that parking lot, according to Google Earth, the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center parking lot is at approximately 4288' of elevation. The intersection of Kelbaker/Hidden Hill where the RV was is at approximately 3841 feet of elevation. The rock formation that @sroad figures was RT & BT's goal is 3922' of elevation at its highest point. In addition, an arm of higher rocky mountains (I'm guessing these are the Granite Mountains ) extends between that rocky outcropping and the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center. If you draw a line between the rock formation and the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center parking lot (a distance of around 2 1/4 miles), it goes across mountains that are approximately 4500' high.

All of this is to say that if they were looking at the parking lot of the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center, they were not standing on the rock formation. RT did say they were standing on a hill, but it's not clear to me where they would have been standing. I doubt they climbed a mountain in that heat. So my guess is that the 360 contained images of some other parking lot.

If I figure out how to do so, I'll post a Google Earth image or images.

As @artsy1 and others have said, it may be that the 360 that RT said BT took was far from the Kelbaker/Hidden Hill location, and that RT meant to imply that someone followed them. I also think he said to @dbdb11's family that the 360 was taken in the morning, which might imply it was taken somewhere else. I don't know. JMO

 

[Cherwell]

We also must keep in mind that he gave a detailed description of events to his wife's family, and this additional stop was not amongst that information. I'm not sure how long it took before BT's family was contacted by RT, however I believe it was not right away, so he did have time to think about what to tell them to ensure he left nothing out. I believe BT's niece said it was a long description of events. No reason to keep out the info on the extra stop when he is remembering to mention that BT took the '360 photo', which occurred at that location apparently (unless I have it wrong?).

Unless BT's niece forgot to mention it in her remembered account. I wouldn't expect her to remember every detail: nobody recalls every single sentence of a lengthy conversation, especially when they don't know that they'll be asked to do so. She might even have missed hearing that bit.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Its really not that flat and the visibility is really not that good. Only within about 1000 ft of where the truck was parked is the land really clear. I pulled these off Google earth of the area in and around those rocks.

Google Maps

Google Maps

 

[deugirtni]

Unless BT's niece forgot to mention it in her remembered account. I wouldn't expect her to remember every detail: nobody recalls every single sentence of a lengthy conversation, especially when they don't know that they'll be asked to do so. She might even have missed hearing that bit.

That would seem like a really big coincidence to me if he both failed to mention it to the media (or they just happened to edit that part out) *and* the niece forgot about that part (and has not since recalled it), or she didn't hear it. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Iirc he contacted her HK family on the 16th. To say she's not coming and to cancel her hotel reservations.
He had not contacted her son yet and never did. LE contacted him iirc.

Yes, I was thinking it was 4 days later when he contacted her family. Is that right then?

 

[slowpoke]

In these threads where such little info being released from LE has us all with so many darn questions!

Going back to that awesome post from @sroad I want to highlight something here that puts another set of big question marks into this that has likely been mentioned.

I have snipped it to focus on what I want to question.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

"My phone did not work west of Kelbaker road, and barely worked a little ways east of the turnout. So likely even if she did have a phone she would not have been able to call for help."

Is this an area where cell service is very difficult to get depending on the provider, or is it 'well-known' for spotty service amongst all cell providers?

If RT didn't have cell service to make the 911 call, what distance would RT have needed to drive from where they were parked to gain service to make that emergency call?

How long was he gone if he needed to drive away from where she disappeared to make that Emergency call?

Just adding more questions I would love to have the answers to into the mix....

If you go to the Campendium site, and see the areas for Mojave Preserve, contributors there have reports showing the number of bars for phones for the camp spots there. I think, as sroad said, service is spotty. Mojave National Preserve Camping: 14 Campgrounds in Mojave National Preserve - Campendium

Your post made me think: picturing the scenario, IF he did need to drive to another area in order to make his 911 call, would he have unhitched the camper part from his truck in order to do so, or would he have driven the truck with the camper attached?

Where my head went with this thought is I was thinking what if he drove the entire thing (sorry, don’t know the lingo..5th wheel, is that it?) and then subsequently mistook where he had parked originally, where he lost Barb? So that he inadvertently had searchers start searching the wrong place? Possible, or not likely?
Just thoughts.

 

[charminglane]

I would hope he would have left the trailer there so Barbara could make her way back to it. ^^^

 

[sunshineray]

Just curious if anyone one knows, was that photo of Barbara taken on this particular hiking trip?

 

[deugirtni]

Police would've known from the tire tracks if RT had left and returned. Of course, we won't know that. I wonder which aspect of the polygraph RT was believed to have been deceptive about.

 

[al66pine]

Which Comments Get Clipped?

True, but why wouldn't he have included details about that extra stop in his interview?

True it could have been edited out the video portion, but would a reporter leave that very important detail out of a printed version of the news story?

@Knox. Thx for your posts.
Reason that detail was omitted?
Because reporter or editor thought it was not important?
Because they were thinking like MSM story-tellers for a wiiiiiiiide audience w little interest in in-depth coverage.
They were not thinking crime-solvers (like us).
May seem overly simplistic, but that's where my $ is.
jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes, I was thinking it was 4 days later when he contacted her family. Is that right then?

Yes, he called them in between interviews. MOO

July 15, KTNV interview
July 16, called family
July 17, Inside Edition interview

 

[LAhiker]

Just curious if anyone one knows, was that photo of Barbara taken on this particular hiking trip?

No one knows and LE hasn't said. The question has been debated extensively in previous threads.

 

[PommyMommy]

If you go to the Campendium site, and see the areas for Mojave Preserve, contributors there have reports showing the number of bars for phones for the camp spots there. I think, as sroad said, service is spotty. Mojave National Preserve Camping: 14 Campgrounds in Mojave National Preserve - Campendium

Your post made me think: picturing the scenario, IF he did need to drive to another area in order to make his 911 call, would he have unhitched the camper part from his truck in order to do so, or would he have driven the truck with the camper attached?

Where my head went with this thought is I was thinking what if he drove the entire thing (sorry, don’t know the lingo..5th wheel, is that it?) and then subsequently mistook where he had parked originally, where he lost Barb? So that he inadvertently had searchers start searching the wrong place? Possible, or not likely?
Just thoughts.

It would fit in with all the rest of the apparent forgetfulness in this case. MOO

 

[LAhiker]

If you go to the Campendium site, and see the areas for Mojave Preserve, contributors there have reports showing the number of bars for phones for the camp spots there. I think, as sroad said, service is spotty. Mojave National Preserve Camping: 14 Campgrounds in Mojave National Preserve - Campendium

Your post made me think: picturing the scenario, IF he did need to drive to another area in order to make his 911 call, would he have unhitched the camper part from his truck in order to do so, or would he have driven the truck with the camper attached?

Where my head went with this thought is I was thinking what if he drove the entire thing (sorry, don’t know the lingo..5th wheel, is that it?) and then subsequently mistook where he had parked originally, where he lost Barb? So that he inadvertently had searchers start searching the wrong place? Possible, or not likely?
Just thoughts.

Interesting thought. Personally I think this is possible but highly unlikely. I don't think he would inadvertently send searchers to the wrong place -- I think he's too familiar with the desert for that. Also he apparently told LE and some in BT's family that he took pictures that showed that he and BT were where they said they were; our VI has said that a case detective confirmed the existence of the photos. If RT had made that mistake and SAR had started searching in the wrong place and then his photos had shown that some other place was actually where he said BT vanished, presumably SAR would've then gone to look in the right place. JMO

 

[Cherwell]

That would seem like a really big coincidence to me if he both failed to mention it to the media (or they just happened to edit that part out) *and* the niece forgot about that part (and has not since recalled it), or she didn't hear it. jmo.

Not to me.
It's not a particularly important detail in the context of a media story, and I think I am realistic about how much the average person absorbs and remembers about conversations.

 

[CSIDreamer]

For me, the issue is more that it sounds almost impossible for her to have gotten lost, or gone off trail without being amongst unfriendly vegetation while scantily clad (based on @sroad’s very detailed info about the visibility of the trail, the likelihood she could see the RV the whole time, etc.).

So I understand and believe that IF she had become confused and lost, she might then be overlooked. But to me it sounds like she would have had to try really hard to go off trail, given that it’s wide enough for a vehicle and very obvious to the eye (per @sroad), and in (per RT) a very small window of time.

Possibly this is why RT is so insistent about her being kidnapped; IMO he could see that it would have been very, very unlikely for her to have gotten lost.

I suspect she hasn’t been found because she really isn’t there.

Isn't that vegetation called cholla? From what I've read it would have pricked her to shreds (figuratively) had she wandered off the trail.

 

[campbellsouup]

I've had this in the back of my head but didn't want to say it - going to put it out there in case anyone else is thinking the same.

Was it not initially stated "BT will be found wearing X"? (since the specific clothing titles are up in the air)

If so, that seemingly could infer that it's known that she will be (or should have been) found wearing X.

Wandered down that thought train during some of the underwear discussion. I'm sure I'm walking a fine line on the rules with this post, feel free to nuke it if needed.

Edit for clarification: The statement seems to be made in a definitive tone, when it should have been made in a presumptive tone. You don't know what she will be found in as she has yet to be found. Maybe I'm thinking too far.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Let's dial the sarcasm way back. In fact, let's eliminate the sarcasm please OK?

Thanks for understanding,
Tricia