CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[10ofRods]

While it could've been that parking lot, according to Google Earth, the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center parking lot is at approximately 4288' of elevation. The intersection of Kelbaker/Hidden Hill where the RV was is at approximately 3841 feet of elevation. The rock formation that @sroad figures was RT & BT's goal is 3922' of elevation at its highest point. In addition, an arm of higher rocky mountains (I'm guessing these are the Granite Mountains ) extends between that rocky outcropping and the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center. If you draw a line between the rock formation and the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center parking lot (a distance of around 2 1/4 miles), it goes across mountains that are approximately 4500' high.

All of this is to say that if they were looking at the parking lot of the Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center, they were not standing on the rock formation. RT did say they were standing on a hill, but it's not clear to me where they would have been standing. I doubt they climbed a mountain in that heat. So my guess is that the 360 contained images of some other parking lot.

If I figure out how to do so, I'll post a Google Earth image or images.

As @artsy1 and others have said, it may be that the 360 that RT said BT took was far from the Kelbaker/Hidden Hill location, and that RT meant to imply that someone followed them. I also think he said to @dbdb11's family that the 360 was taken in the morning, which might imply it was taken somewhere else. I don't know. JMO

No reason to assume they didn't follow the little trail to:

34.786528, -115.641111

You can see the trail (which is about a mile from where the RV is said to have been parked). It's a less strenuous climb than the hills that are closer to the road - but not much more of a walk to get to. I know which ones I'd be climbing and it wouldn't be the taller ones, it'd be the southern extension of the Granite Hills.

The Sweeney Center's parking lot is not at the top of the hill that abuts it, but at the bottom (and there's another parking lot next to it, which looks like it might be County Maintenance, it would have vehicles).

At any rate, it's very hard to explain any parking lot being seen from along their hike trajectory if that's not the hill they climbed. Or from a point nearby that location (perhaps a bit north, where the first trail goes into the hills). It's almost certain they didn't try getting through the ravine with the black rocks.

If I drop a marker right in the parking lot area (for either the Sweeney Center, the road to it, or the parking area just northeast of it), I get a height of 1780 feet above sea level for the parking lot.

We really don't know which of those hills they climbed, but if they were seeing a square parking lot, where else could it be?

And you're right, we don't know where the 360 was taken (but hopefully LE has some idea). It would be great to know where that other place was.

 

[slowpoke]

This was an interesting read. Forgive me if it’s already been shared here. The subject location is Joshua Tree National Park, but I’m sure it likely might be applied to Mojave National Preserve, as well.

The article gives several cases of people missing there, and the toll on the resources, and volunteer SAR workers.

A quote from one man who was rescued, but almost didn’t make it:
“I just got lost … my physical strength fell away and I just got lost. It’s kind of simple in a way. This is what happens out in the desert,” he said.

In a desert park, A deadly allure

 

[Tillicum]

Oh I don’t know. It could be he is a “check the box” kinda guy, or frugal on such matters, or both. I would have done the same.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I would have too but being a "check the box" kinda gal I would've called the family days sooner than they were called. I might wait for 24 hours before calling family but no longer than that. But that's just me.

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped, and bolded by me:


Our poster sroad said he confirmed with either LE or a SAR person (forgot which) that the Kelbaker-Hidden Hill turnout was where RT was parked. But, I agree that it could be possible the 360 photo could have been shot from another spot that morning, as we know they hit the road sometime after 8 in the morning from their home, and they should have been able to get to the Preserve within a couple of hours.

But RT did tell dbdb11’s family he was suspicious of the car owners as “potential suspects”, dbdb11 has told us, so I feel the 360 photo spot must have still been within the Preserve and in the general vicinity for RT to say that. JMO

His suspicion of any of the cars parked out there (researchers, maintenance workers) is so strange. I thought he thought it was related to some MLM scheme? At any rate, it's odd that he'd think that people who work out that way (there's another place with a parking lot quite a few miles to the north) would be watching him and Barbara and then timing a jump into their car to intersect with her at their parking place. And then what? Skip work the rest of the day?

BTW, to me, it seems probable that if there's a big-ish square parking lot in the picture, it was not taken from atop the main section of the Granite Hills - it either has to e the southern spur of those hills or in some other location entirely.

 

[MassGuy]

This was an interesting read. Forgive me if it’s already been shared here. The subject location is Joshua Tree National Park, but I’m sure it likely might be applied to Mojave National Preserve, as well.

The article gives several cases of people missing there, and the toll on the resources, and volunteer SAR workers.

A quote from one man who was rescued, but almost didn’t make it:
“I just got lost … my physical strength fell away and I just got lost. It’s kind of simple in a way. This is what happens out in the desert,” he said.

In a desert park, A deadly allure

Had this occurred in Joshua Tree, then I’d absolutely be leaning towards Barb getting lost.

That’s a different animal from where these two were walking.

 

[CSIDreamer]

American Airlines #504, Las Vegas to LAX, dep 7/22
Cathay Pacific #883, LAX to Hong Kong, arr 7/23

American Airlines has sections for refundable and non refundable tickets. And I have to fix din din so I can't research the difference. Sorry.

 

[Cherwell]

Oh I don’t know. It could be he is a “check the box” kinda guy, or frugal on such matters, or both. I would have done the same.

Or it could have been prompted by someone else, eg his daughter.

 

[PommyMommy]

American Airlines has sections for refundable and non refundable tickets. And I have to fix din din so I can't research the difference. Sorry.

No worries, I don't need to know. I was just letting you know which airlines she planned to fly. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I would have too but being a "check the box" kinda gal I would've called the family days sooner than they were called. I might wait for 24 hours before calling family but no longer than that. But that's just me.

Well I think it’s pretty clear there is no love lost between them. Regardless, I agree, he should have.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[GordianKnot]

Had this occurred in Joshua Tree, then I’d absolutely be leaning towards Barb getting lost.

That’s a different animal from where these two were walking.

You mentioned Joshua Tree.
If memory serves, Joshua Tree is where Erin Corwin was murdered and her body thrown down an abandoned mine shaft.
It sounds like you're pretty familiar with that area from your time in the military.

For those of us who've never been there, can you please explain the differences b/t Joshua Tree and the area of the Mohave where Barb went missing, i.e., why you view it as being highly unlikely for her to have gotten lost in that location?

TIA!

 

[MassGuy]

You mentioned Joshua Tree.
If memory serves, Joshua Tree is where Erin Corwin was murdered and her body thrown down an abandoned mine shaft.
It sounds like you're pretty familiar with that area from your time in the military.

For those of us who've never been there, can you please explain the differences b/t Joshua Tree and the area of the Mohave where Barb went missing, i.e., why you view it as being highly unlikely for her to have gotten lost in that location?

TIA!

Joshua tree is absolutely huge, and it’s basically two different desert environments in one (due to elevation I think).

You have a dry area which is more like the place Barb was in (Mojave) and a wetter area that has a lot of plant life.

Lots of rocks and hills, and plenty of places to get lost, as you can lose your reference point easily.

I only went hiking there once, and I complained the entire time.

“Are we there yet?”

 

[slowpoke]

Hmm, here’s a case from 2008 where a 67-year old woman went missing from “the Piute Canyon area in the Mojave National Preserve”. She was not found.

Similarities: Maria of this report was not caring food or water (well, BT had beer, I guess..), and Maria and her companion separated from each other while trying to get back to their vehicle.

Maria’s case did not seem to get much publicity, it seems, compared to Barbara’s. So, not many details to know if hers was suspicious or not (though I note the companion didn’t report until the next day. Hmm). I didn’t see any updates to this, but she is on NamUs.

But, anyway, just showing that something similar has happened in the area before!

vvdailypress.com
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[EdgarAlicePoe]

@sroad may have the answer. BBM:



CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

Thank you so MUCH for all of your hard work.

 

[RANCH]

Abduction is even less likely than that. We just don’t see it happen like this, and even if it did, there are no signs of it occurring here.

SBM

We don't know that LE has no evidence that supports an abduction. They could but haven't let the public know at this time.

We also don't know if they have evidence of foul play.

JMO

 

[slowpoke]

Had this occurred in Joshua Tree, then I’d absolutely be leaning towards Barb getting lost.

That’s a different animal from where these two were walking.

Joshua tree is absolutely huge, and it’s basically two different desert environments in one (due to elevation I think).

You have a dry area which is more like the place Barb was in (Mojave) and a wetter area that has a lot of plant life.

Lots of rocks and hills, and plenty of places to get lost, as you can lose your reference point easily.

I only went hiking there once, and I complained the entire time.

“Are we there yet?”

I know nothing of either JTNP or MNP, so I have no argument based on personal experience on why MNP would be an unlikely or less likely place to get lost.

However, this Mojave Preserve site claims it is nearly twice the size of JTNP. And it also says that MNP doesn’t have as much signage and interpretive stations as JTNP.
I certainly wouldn’t want to be lost in either, that’s for sure! Thanks for the input on your experience, MassGuy.

I’ve Been to Joshua Tree; What Am I Missing at the Mojave National Preserve — Mojave National Preserve Conservancy

 

[MassGuy]

SBM

We don't know that LE has no evidence that supports an abduction. They could but haven't let the public know at this time.

We also don't know if they have evidence of foul play.

JMO

Nope, we don’t know what they do or do not know.

At this point, I’d favor an attack by the mythical Yeti, over abduction though.

If that’s even still a thing.

 

[GordianKnot]

Joshua tree is absolutely huge, and it’s basically two different desert environments in one (due to elevation I think).

You have a dry area which is more like the place Barb was in (Mojave) and a wetter area that has a lot of plant life.

Lots of rocks and hills, and plenty of places to get lost, as you can lose your reference point easily.

I only went hiking there once, and I complained the entire time.

“Are we there yet?”

BBM:

Good Grief.
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
I don't know how you ever made it through boot camp, Massy.

Anyway, re: the terrain at Joshua Tree vs. the area of the Mojave Barb purportedly went missing from,
thank you for that description of both, and for making the differences b/t the two more clear.
It seems like there's a pretty stark contrast, both in terms of overall size and scope of the areas, as well as the environmental surroundings, e.g., flora, fauna, rocks, hills, etc.

JTNP does sound like a place where it would be easy to get lost for a host of reasons.

From what you've just described, though, it sounds much, much less plausible that Barb would have gotten lost in that Mohave spot.

In terms of terrain, it almost sounds like comparing comparing apples and oranges.
They're both fruit, but that's where the similarities end.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM:

Good Grief.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't know how you ever made it through boot camp, Massy.

Anyway, re: the terrain at Joshua Tree vs. the area of the Mojave Barb purportedly went missing from,
thank you for that description of both, and for making the differences b/t the two more clear.
It seems like there's a pretty stark contrast, both in terms of overall size and scope of the areas, as well as the environmental surroundings.

JTNP does sound like a place where it would be easy to get lost for a host of reasons.

From what you've just described, though, it sounds much, much less plausible that Barb would have gotten lost in that Mohave spot.

In terms of terrain, it almost sounds like comparing comparing apples and oranges.
They're both fruit, but that's where the similarities end.

JMO.

Well there are parts that are similar, and my experience was a short miserable hike, where I did nothing but complain.

The important thing is to focus on where she was, how far she was traveling, and the visibility/reference markers.

Even if she tried to get lost, I just can’t imagine no sign of her being found.

 

[RANCH]

Nope, we don’t know what they do or do not know.

At this point, I’d favor an attack by the mythical Yeti, over abduction though.

If that’s even still a thing.

That's why I'm not ready to pin this case down to only one possible scenario.

Not enough info at this time. JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Nope, we don’t know what they do or do not know.

At this point, I’d favor an attack by the mythical Yeti, over abduction though.

If that’s even still a thing.

I don't know about Yeti.

I'd favor almost any scenario over abduction, though.

Almost any.

Human trafficking falls below abduction on my list of possible scenarios.

JMO.