CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[suzyq211]

Hello?

 

[SuziQ]

Where did you get this information, regarding soda AND paper plates? Have NOT seen anything posted anywhere about PAPER PLATES, a receipt left in Robert Harrod's home? What was the date on that receipt? What was the time on that receipt?

It's been reported by the media and I believe that information came straight from LE.

 

[fran]

I hadn't seen this case before today. I don't know how I missed it. I've spent quite a while going through all of the pages since the beginning.

IMHO, there is foul play here.

From what I know, if the parents assets are held in a trust and one dies, I don't believe there's any reason for the recipients of the trust to receive anything until the second parent passes. I could be wrong. And, if there's a trust, the parent's may not have a separate 'will.' Again, I could be wrong.

I believe the children converging on the family home and a discussion with the father was because they may have been concerned how it was going to play out now that there was a new spouse. He did have a number of notes around the home indicating his desire to have his new wife's name placed on some of the assets. As the new wife was coming in a few days, they may have felt compelled to act quickly.

Doesn't anyone find it strange that when the SIL found the dad missing, although he was helping him do things to prepare for the wife's return, he just up a left and went home? His EXCUSE, he figured the dad was visiting a neighbor.

What????? Sorry, makes no sense.

No, he returns home, lets his wife call the dad to no avail, and the wife ends up calling in a 'missing persons report.'

I see red flags all over this!

JMHO
fran

 

[dreamweaver]

I hadn't seen this case before today. I don't know how I missed it. I've spent quite a while going through all of the pages since the beginning.

IMHO, there is foul play here.

From what I know, if the parents assets are held in a trust and one dies, I don't believe there's any reason for the recipients of the trust to receive anything until the second parent passes. I could be wrong. And, if there's a trust, the parent's may not have a separate 'will.' Again, I could be wrong.

I believe the children converging on the family home and a discussion with the father was because they may have been concerned how it was going to play out now that there was a new spouse. He did have a number of notes around the home indicating his desire to have his new wife's name placed on some of the assets. As the new wife was coming in a few days, they may have felt compelled to act quickly.

Doesn't anyone find it strange that when the SIL found the dad missing, although he was helping him do things to prepare for the wife's return, he just up a left and went home? His EXCUSE, he figured the dad was visiting a neighbor.

What????? Sorry, makes no sense.

No, he returns home, lets his wife call the dad to no avail, and the wife ends up calling in a 'missing persons report.'

I see red flags all over this!

JMHO
fran

==============================

I think it is foul play. Most of the time.
The Sunday meeting with the daughters and dad:
The daughter's mom/Robert's wife, had died in spring, 2008.
Robert H was to give them copies of her trust/will.
He had yet to do so in the over a year since her death.
The daughters knew he had been freely loaning or giving
money to the barber lady.
They were concerned that she was taking advantage of their dad.
And while glad that their dad was married to Fontelle,
they did want their copies of their mom's trust/will.
As far as I can tell from everything reported, Robert H still did not have
the copies done. It did not seem to be a priority for him,
per the daughters.
Maybe they thought he was losing some of his attention to
detail, a little memory loss, he is over 80.
From what has been posted, it seems like the daughters knew their dad had not told Fontelle anything about the family trust.

As for the SIL,
it is reported that after he came back to Robert's house from that last errand run and found the housekeeper waiting on the porch, the front door locked, he went into the house through the back door and let the housekeeper in.
He thought Robert had gone for a walk.
He stayed, did more fix it jobs around the house.
After the housekeeper finished cleaning, Robert still had not returned.
SIL thought maybe Robert had stopped to visit neighbors.
He decides to go home.
Once home, his wife, Robert's daughter, tries calling the house.
There is no answer.
I am unsure what time SIL got home and
I am unsure what time the daughters become more concerned
that no one was answering the phone at the house.
But, they did call PPD and ask for a welfare check at the house.
PPD found no one there or no answer there.
The daughters mistakenly thought they had to wait 24 hours to make a missing persons report.
They did talk to Fontelle in Missouri.
Fontelle decided to call PPD and report Robert missing.

And here we are.

Where is Robert? Is it foul play? Or is Robert hiding out, waiting til the fuss dies down?

 

[Angelo]

I hadn't seen this case before today. I don't know how I missed it. I've spent quite a while going through all of the pages since the beginning.

IMHO, there is foul play here.

From what I know, if the parents assets are held in a trust and one dies, I don't believe there's any reason for the recipients of the trust to receive anything until the second parent passes. I could be wrong. And, if there's a trust, the parent's may not have a separate 'will.' Again, I could be wrong.

I believe the children converging on the family home and a discussion with the father was because they may have been concerned how it was going to play out now that there was a new spouse. He did have a number of notes around the home indicating his desire to have his new wife's name placed on some of the assets. As the new wife was coming in a few days, they may have felt compelled to act quickly.

Doesn't anyone find it strange that when the SIL found the dad missing, although he was helping him do things to prepare for the wife's return, he just up a left and went home? His EXCUSE, he figured the dad was visiting a neighbor.

What????? Sorry, makes no sense.

No, he returns home, lets his wife call the dad to no avail, and the wife ends up calling in a 'missing persons report.'

I see red flags all over this!

JMHO
fran

Yes, I find it strange.

Also, the SIL is supposedly doing repair work around BH's house yet he is never at the house. Add to that the changing times of when the SIL last saw BH.

 

[dreamweaver]

At this time in Robert Harrod's disappearance,
it is now 3 months 19 days since he was last seen:

I ask myself, what else could be done?

If I were the police, I would be reviewing the file from
the beginning. I would re interview everyone.
If there was not a lie detector test done, I would
ask for it.
If something that could have been searched was not,
I would ask permission to search.
I would re phone all the hospitals and shelters, just in case.
I would send them the missing person flier.
I would physically walk the neighborhood and interview
everyone.
I would do an investigative background on everyone
involved in the case.
After doing that, if there did not seem to be any new clues or leads,
I would then ask the sheriff's office to help, perhaps, ask their lead
detective to review the case. A fresh eye can help see what may have been overlooked.
If nothing then, I would ask a profiler to help out.
(Pat Brown, FBI profiler, has a website and offers her services free to law enforcement)
If I were the police.
IMO.

 

[dreamweaver]

Since the case is at the over three month missing mark:

I ask myself, what would I do if I were the family members of Robert Harrod?
The daughters, Fontelle, extended family members.

I would write down everything I know as fact about the day Robert went missing.
I would write down everything I think could have happened.

I would try to come up with even a $1000.00 reward.

I would make a new batch of the missing person poster.
I would add another picture, I would update the latest
timeline. I would add the reward information. I would
make sure the tip line listed is the anonymous one.

I would make sure the PPD had this latest flier.
I would walk the Placentia neighborhood and
make sure the fliers are seen.
I would hand out the fliers to the neighbors.
I would create a letter about Robert's Harrod disappearance
and then would mail the letter and the new flier
to all hospitals and shelters and food kitchens in
a 20 mile radius,
on the off chance that he could be out there, wandering.
I would do the same for all casinos in a 50 mile range, as
he was known to visit casinos.
I would interview the neighbors myself. I would ask permission
to tape the interview.

If I were family, I would ask the OC Register for
a sit down interview.
I would focus on Robert and where he could be.
I would ask the public that if they have any
small thought, clue, to call PPD, that
nothing is too small to report.

If I were family,
I would respectfully ask PPD if they would invite the sheriff's office
to review the case.
I would send a letter to the sheriff's office asking if they would review the
case for new leads or what resources sheriff's office could bring to the case.
I would join California legislation about making sure a Silver Alert is finalized in California.

And if I were family, I would see if I could put aside any differences or bad feelings with the other side of Robert's family and
come together to
pool a little money for new posters and the cost of stamps and envelopes and those expenses to be used to help find Robert, their loved one.
And, perhaps,
come together to ask the court if money from trust could be used
to hire a private investigator to search for Robert Harrod.
There are rules about how an account like that is managed.

If I were family.
IMO.

 

[surelock]

Since the case is at the over three month missing mark:

I ask myself, what would I do if I were the family members of Robert Harrod?
The daughters, Fontelle, extended family members.

I would write down everything I know as fact about the day Robert went missing.
I would write down everything I think could have happened.

I would try to come up with even a $1000.00 reward.

I would make a new batch of the missing person poster.
I would add another picture, I would update the latest
timeline. I would add the reward information. I would
make sure the tip line listed is the anonymous one.

I would make sure the PPD had this latest flier.
I would walk the Placentia neighborhood and
make sure the fliers are seen.
I would hand out the fliers to the neighbors.
I would create a letter about Robert's Harrod disappearance
and then would mail the letter and the new flier
to all hospitals and shelters and food kitchens in
a 20 mile radius,
on the off chance that he could be out there, wandering.
I would do the same for all casinos in a 50 mile range, as
he was known to visit casinos.
I would interview the neighbors myself. I would ask permission
to tape the interview.

If I were family, I would ask the OC Register for
a sit down interview.
I would focus on Robert and where he could be.
I would ask the public that if they have any
small thought, clue, to call PPD, that
nothing is too small to report.

If I were family,
I would respectfully ask PPD if they would invite the sheriff's office
to review the case.
I would send a letter to the sheriff's office asking if they would review the
case for new leads or what resources sheriff's office could bring to the case.
I would join California legislation about making sure a Silver Alert is finalized in California.

And if I were family, I would see if I could put aside any differences or bad feelings with the other side of Robert's family and
come together to
pool a little money for new posters and the cost of stamps and envelopes and those expenses to be used to help find Robert, their loved one.
And, perhaps,
come together to ask the court if money from trust could be used
to hire a private investigator to search for Robert Harrod.
There are rules about how an account like that is managed.

If I were family.
IMO.

All sensible suggestions for this family. There does not seem to be much of an effort on anyone's part to do these things unless it has been behind the scenes. Bob deserves to be found.

 

[ohiogirl]

Hopefully the family is doing at least some of those things, dw. It must be extremely hard to not know where your father is. I'm thinking that omeone should be keeping this in the public eye.
Maybe LE does know where he is, and he did just go. Maybe, maybe .....

 

[fran]

I watched a missing persons case in OC a few years ago and it is up to the family to keep the case in the public eye. That truly is about the only thing they can do.

This is obviously foul play, IMHO. I understand the hair dresser and her husband have been cleared by LE, I'm ASSUMING because they must have a verifiable 'alibi,' for the time in question.

IMHO, the only one now with motive, means, and opportunity, is the SIL. He's my number ONE NOT POI!

He was the last one with the missing person. IF he did in fact work around the house after he noticed the subject missing, and when he STILL had not returned, he just up and left.................

Nope!!!!

He left because he may have been disposing of the dad's body on his way home to the mountains. He left because he didn't want to be the one to report the subject missing. He didn't feel the love for the dad that his wife did. He would have benefitted from anything his wife will inherit.

You do NOT have to wait seven years to have the missing person declared dead. You can have the court declare them dead after they've been missing for a year. I've seen it done. By the subject missing and him NOT taking his car, leaving his home, NOT touching any of his financial accounts etc, is all the proof a judge would need to declare him dead.

Ok, I don't have anything else to add. I'll just watch to see what happens, IF anything. But don't think LE is really going to do anything. UNLESS they have some sort of proof the subject is deceased, they'll just leave it alone. That's what they did on the other OC case I watched. They didn't do anything until the woman's body was found a few years later. Then all the did was announce the husband was wanted for questioning. (he's gone without a trace)

JMHO
fran

 

[nervous_nellie]

I watched a missing persons case in OC a few years ago and it is up to the family to keep the case in the public eye. That truly is about the only thing they can do.

This is obviously foul play, IMHO. I understand the hair dresser and her husband have been cleared by LE, I'm ASSUMING because they must have a verifiable 'alibi,' for the time in question.

IMHO, the only one now with motive, means, and opportunity, is the SIL. He's my number ONE NOT POI!

He was the last one with the missing person. IF he did in fact work around the house after he noticed the subject missing, and when he STILL had not returned, he just up and left.................

Nope!!!!

He left because he may have been disposing of the dad's body on his way home to the mountains. He left because he didn't want to be the one to report the subject missing. He didn't feel the love for the dad that his wife did. He would have benefitted from anything his wife will inherit.

You do NOT have to wait seven years to have the missing person declared dead. You can have the court declare them dead after they've been missing for a year. I've seen it done. By the subject missing and him NOT taking his car, leaving his home, NOT touching any of his financial accounts etc, is all the proof a judge would need to declare him dead.

Ok, I don't have anything else to add. I'll just watch to see what happens, IF anything. But don't think LE is really going to do anything. UNLESS they have some sort of proof the subject is deceased, they'll just leave it alone. That's what they did on the other OC case I watched. They didn't do anything until the woman's body was found a few years later. Then all the did was announce the husband was wanted for questioning. (he's gone without a trace)

JMHO
fran

yep - the sil - i have always thought that too

 

[ShowMe]

PPD kept speculatively reporting a Cold Feet theory while family was sensing foul play. The father seemed happy and family had problems believing he would leave F voluntarily. To me, that explains a daughter doing special things, trying to ready a home for her father and new step mother to both return.
In spite of how one perceives what was written, I think family would have posted nothing at all if they were not concerned about their father. Was he trashed or were they bluntly describing the man they knew like nobody else? I wouldn't want to be in their shoes for all the money in the world. It is unimaginable.

I do not think F herself could have done something to Mr. H. The barber had nothing more to loose since she lost her financier but should have been concerned about having to pay back all the money after he got married, (unless). Per PPD, both she and her husband were cleared and Mr. H's family were not suspects so, what are sleuth's left with to speculate about, if we discount all that was said or written by his family?

Perhaps there is reason PPD is not explaining their Cold Feet theory. I sure hope it's not that they have given up investigating. This just can NOT be another COLD CASE!

I'm still looking for those paper plates. :waitasec:

Bob Harrod go home, please!

 

[surelock]

I'm still looking for those paper plates. :waitasec:

Bob Harrod go home, please!

I sure wish he would/could go home but even the police are referring to him in past tense so sadly it is unlikely. What is more likely is that someone so far is getting away with murder and probably feeling quite smug and pleased with themselves- that's what makes a normal (non-sociopath) person ill about the whole thing.

All Robert did was live his life the way he was supposed. He worked, raised his children, and probably made many sacrifices to accumulate a nest egg for his twilight years. Now someone without his work ethics, too lazy to work or scrimp and save themselves, wants to get their grimy paws on his wealth.

I agree with the previous suggestion of a criminal profiler. I do not believe that more than a subset of our population is capable of planning and carrying out such a devious crime. It would take cleverness, careful planning, the ability to lie effortlessly, and the ability to project empathy and compassion from their empty hearts. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

A profiler, detective or even a crime writer should be able to narrow the field of potential suspects.

I want to say that while I acknowledge that the perpretrator is indeed clever that in no way translates to admiration. I sincerely hope that he/she/they are aprehended and spend eternity in prison mulling over the mistake or two that they have surely made.

 

[macyw]

Did he have any connections to Laguna Woods or Leisure World? These are behind the gates communities of seniors and would be a great place to runaway to.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Maybe it's because I love my father so much that I think there's nothing he could do to make me harm him...BUT, I don't think the daughters would hurt their father even if they thought he was a tight wad or a cheapskate! I truly believe they are hiding him thinking they are protecting him from Fontelle and her family. They really didn't know her or her children and for all they knew she might have been looking for a meal ticket. Think of it..The daughters could be hiding him. He wouldnt have to be using any cash, credit cards..He wouldnt have to be seen in public. The police aren't looking for him because they probably know where he is and will not get involved in a family dispute. If Bob did have the onset of dementia, he might not even remember marrying Fontelle. I have to think the daughters are protecting him because that's the only scenario that makes sense to me right now!

 

[Fairy1]

There is an outside chance that Bob just walked away. The one factor that discounts that possibility is that none of his accounts or assets have been touched since he went missing. But who knows if he had a secret stash somewhere? Maybe the family or LE should have a forensic accountant take a look at his books?

 

[Angelo]

Hopefully Bob Harrod will not become just another statistic.

I wish we were privy to the documents which were filed in the daughter's quest to be named conservators of the trust.

 

[cloudajo]

Maybe it's because I love my father so much that I think there's nothing he could do to make me harm him...BUT, I don't think the daughters would hurt their father even if they thought he was a tight wad or a cheapskate! I truly believe they are hiding him thinking they are protecting him from Fontelle and her family. They really didn't know her or her children and for all they knew she might have been looking for a meal ticket. Think of it..The daughters could be hiding him. He wouldnt have to be using any cash, credit cards..He wouldnt have to be seen in public. The police aren't looking for him because they probably know where he is and will not get involved in a family dispute. If Bob did have the onset of dementia, he might not even remember marrying Fontelle. I have to think the daughters are protecting him because that's the only scenario that makes sense to me right now!

IMO, I don't necessarily think daughters harmed him in the physical sense. I think maybe went something like this: [multiple events in the past year], daughters called Social Services again. Daughters went to Bob's house that Sunday to confront him. Maybe they threatened him with intake/intervention by Social Services, maybe he told them they wouldn't get anything from trust and/or he didn't want to see them again. Daughters went home, youngest daughter told her husband. Husband/SIL took matters into his own hands on Monday. Daughters were aware during or after, and then covered for him. I wonder if SIL had a job that he took off from to go to Bob's house that Monday or if he didn't have a job.

 

[ShowMe]

Hopefully Bob Harrod will not become just another statistic.

I wish we were privy to the documents which were filed in the daughter's quest to be named conservators of the trust.

Interesting question but, I don't understand how such documents would or could relate to solving the mystery of the missing person.

Is the conservatorship of the person or of the estate? Of the trust, wouldn't that be whoever the named trustee is? I'm not sure that is determined under conservatorship but could be wrong. Is it temporary? Do you know? I haven't seen this mentioned previously.

Perhaps the SIL took vacation time to help or maybe is self employed? I think I read that it was not unusual for him to help the parents with repairs before.

I wish Mr. H would go home and solve all this wondering for everyone. It must be sheer and constant torture for the two families. Can you imagine? To me it's mind boggling.

 

[dreamweaver]

Did he have any connections to Laguna Woods or Leisure World? These are behind the gates communities of seniors and would be a great place to runaway to.

======================================

macyw:
I had not thought of this before.
Nice to have a pair of fresh eyes looking at the thread.
TY.

Will go check some things out.