CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[Cubby]

SBM

Gitana, as I understand it, that memorabilia list was a list of the things that the co-conservators wanted to secure from Bob's residence. As far as I know, Fontelle agreed to allow them to take all that stuff.

Notice, even the sheets that JuM famously put on the bed in preparation for Fontelle's return to California were on the list. Guess they didn't really belong to Bob, after all.

With the exception of the chair lift, it appears that the co-conservators basically stripped the house, up to and including the frame from Bob's bed. After providing for his family, Bob apparently had very little in the way of personal possessions.

It makes me feel sick. Right now, my entire house is filled with the wonderful aroma of roasting garlic because I have 36 heads of garlic happily roasting away in my oven. The perfume of roasting garlic is so thick right now that I can practically chew the air and the dogs are drooling. My father, who is within a week of Bob in age, has discovered a new delicacy and he asked me if I knew how to fix it. I sent him one head to make sure that it was what he wanted and he asked for "a lot" more.

I'm doing garlic roasting on an industrial scale because I have this superstitious belief that if my daddy is happy here, he won't have time to die. It worked pretty well for my mama (who knew how to be happy).

Maybe that and the legendary powers of garlic will work.

I just don't get the Harrod family.

OT- On a garlic note. I love garlic! Years ago, I tried pickled elephant garlic at Lalo's restaurants. Of course all who ate would reek for a few days. Lalo's offered a free mix of pickled carrots, cauliflower and elephant garlic along with chips and salsa while waiting for one's meal. Pickled elephant garlic is a must for garlic lovers!

 

[tlcya]

So, in layman's terms, it looks like now the daughters have managed to get their hands at least partially on Bob's estate, they are doing everything by the book. It makes sense to me, of course. By the book probably means they are able to pay themselves large executor/ admin fees - whatever they are called. And they are biding time, I'm sure, until Bob is declared dead.

And even though everything is legal now, for me it doesn't detract from the obvious......that something very wrong and very illegal went on originally, for them to get to this 'safe' position they have made for themselves now.

Given the suspicions they have raised with the public by their unbecoming behaviors immediatly following Bob's dissappearance, they can't exactly rush to have him declared dead without appearing even more callous and greedy than they already do. So they are stuck biding their time IMO.

On the idea of Fontelle filing a civil action for wrongful death, that would require her to establish his death by having him declared so. Hmmm, maybe that is the secret hope of certain daughters. Then they wouldn't have to and yet would benifit, being then able to move on to the liquidation and distribuion phase of the trust management.

 

[Cubby]

So far, that's how it;s looking to me. However, the secret agreement seems off and I wish it would be challenged but, IIRC, it was part of the settlement with Mrs. Harrod? Anyone?

Also, we don;t know if they sucked monies out of the accounts prior to filing a first account or inventory and appraisal. That's why Believe09, etc., are discussing what the accounts looked like around the time Mr. Harrod disappeared, right?

Actually, thinking of that, Mrs. Harrod could demand those documents in a challenge to their roles as conservators or successor trustees, on the grounds that she believes they may have been playing fast and loose with the accounts.



You may be right. I don't have those docs with me right now but I will look. I haven't looked at them in a awhile.



I wanted to add something. The trust is an attachment to a documents as I explained. So how does it appear that I only have a list, and not the documents themselves? I'm not sure if you are aware but attachments are not listed in document titles.

Finally, for anyone who wants to view the cases online, for themselves, here's what you do:

1. Click on this link: https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv2/Home.do
2. Hit "accept terms" after the information disclaimer.
3. Then, put 00297798 in for the case number and 2009 for the year filed, for the trust case. (It's 00291267 and 2009 for year filed to access the the conservatorship) and hit enter.
4. The case will then be displayed. You will see three categories: participants (the parties and their attorneys), hearings, which gives you dates of all court action and register of actions which gives you the documents that have been filed.

Unfortunately, you can't order these documents online. You have to go to the court house and pick them up.

Again, I don't want to post anything that could interfere with an investigation. But, looking at the information disclaimer, I have another reason for not wanting to post them. Part of it says, "Visitors further consent to access the record only as instructed by the Court and consent to the Court's monitoring of access to the records. Copyright and other proprietary rights may apply to information in a case file absent an express grant of additional rights by the holder of the copyright or other proprietary right. Use of such information is permissible only to the extent permitted by law or court order, and any use inconsistent with proprietary rights is prohibited."

Even though I am an attorney, I'm not sure exactly what that means. I think that part of it means you can't sell the documents or sell access to them. However, I know organizations like TMZ access and publish these documents all the time. But, it does concern me, especially with how vicious and frightening Mr. Harrod's evil family is.

So, Shana, I hear you are in SoCal.? The address of the court is 341 The City Drive, Orange, CA 92868. You can park in the parking structure on Dawn Way, off The City Drive. You then cross the little street there to Lamoreaux Justice Center, which looks like this:

You will go through the doors on the right (which is the 341 building). There is a metal detector/security you have to go through. Then, take the elevators to the 7th floor. There is a filing window there. You will probably see a line of people going into the filing office. Stand in line and when you get up to the first check in desk, state you want to print some copies. You will get a ticket number or be told to come back when you have your copy code.

Then, go past the rows of chairs where people are sitting waiting to file documents, to the computers straight back from where you came in. Find an empty one. Got to "probate cases". Type in the case number for the case you want and it will come up. In this case, unlike on line, you might have to put in the whole number (30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC and 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJC). The list of docs with then come up. Click on the ones you want to print.

When you have all the doc.s you want checked, you will get a code that you take to the check in desk. (Make sure not to check the button for certified copies because that means each copy has an additional $25.00 charge. You still get file stamped copies without them being certified). The lady then will then give you a ticket to see a clerk. If you are copying the whole file (which is expensive) be advised that you will probably have to go back another day to pick it up because it takes a long time for them to print it all. That's what happened to me. If you want just a few docs, they can likely do it that day.

If you have any questions, let me know.

This was very kind of you to provide such detailed instructions for Shana, gitana1. I'm bumping to the current page so it doesn't get missed as the last post on the previous page.

Hopefully this information is sufficient for shana to obtain the information she's been requesting.

Thanks again, gitana1!

 

[zwiebel]

These are the most brilliant, detailed directions ever, and if I could only find a special dogsitter I would fly to OC myself. I really would. It really is only my dog that stops me. Thanks also for the online directions gitana1 - you're as good as Mr Zwiebel at stuff like that. I think you must be related!

 

[zwiebel]

Use of copyright permitted by law is, I guess, the same as applies to WS? Not more than 10 per cent? But I don't know what the other proprietory rights may be - maybe something those involved could apply for? In most cases, it would seem safe to say no-one would have bothered, but with this family....anything's possible.

 

[Cubby]

I'm not sure what that disclosure with the OC court records mean. My guess is it's applicable to info that is copywritten within the files versus all of the files are copywritten. Because there is no point in the FOIA, freedom of information act, if everything is copy written.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, I see. It's a believe09 cma again, isn't it?

 

[tlcya]

Carrying my speculation a bit farther:

If family members wanted Bob declared dead but wanted someone else to do so, wonder if they might try to spur that action in response to say, I don't know, withhold monies in the form of agreed upon support to a widow who was in dire need of it. Or when that did not get the desired result, try to further increase the frustration level of the poor dear woman by denuding the household of practically everything within.

Things that make me go hmmm.

Total speculation as to motivaions of the conservators/trust administrators.

Please forgive any typos. Tablet typing is not in my skillst, obviously

 

[zwiebel]

Carrying my speculation a bit farther:

If family members wanted Bob declared dead but wanted someone else to do so, wonder if they might try to spur that action in response to say, I don't know, withhold monies in the form of agreed upon support to a widow who was in dire need of it. Or when that did not get the desired result, try to further increase the frustration level of the poor dear woman by denuding the household of practically everything within.

Things that make me go hmmm.

Total speculation as to motivaions of the conservators/trust administrators.

Please forgive any typos. Tablet typing is not in my skillst, obviously

I completely sympathise with the tablet problem. Do you ever get stars?

I am not sure about your theory because I think ( and here I need Angelo or cloudajo,) that the daughters tried to have Bob declared dead very early on, and the court turned them down. Don't take my word for it though.........

ETA....or Sparkyswife. That newbie is pretty good at finding stuff

 

[Cubby]

Carrying my speculation a bit farther:

If family members wanted Bob declared dead but wanted someone else to do so, wonder if they might try to spur that action in response to say, I don't know, withhold monies in the form of agreed upon support to a widow who was in dire need of it. Or when that did not get the desired result, try to further increase the frustration level of the poor dear woman by denuding the household of practically everything within.

Things that make me go hmmm.

Total speculation as to motivaions of the conservators/trust administrators.

Please forgive any typos. Tablet typing is not in my skillst, obviously

My thoughts on the situation. Disappear Bob so he can't make the changes he was planning on to his estate and so he can't spend his money during his retirement years the way he wishes to. Disappearing him freezes things so to speak until a time he can be declared legally deceased. (In addition to the possibility of uncovering possible illegal activity with Mr. Harrod's assets which he was unaware of....)

It's a preventive measure of sorts, because Bob's didn't just drop dead of heartbreak shortly after his first wifes death. Instead, he moved on, picked himself up and found the happiness he sought. Sadly, that wasn't in the plans for whomever was waiting for Bob's things....

I have to add one other thing to the fear and greed suggested in the reason for Bob's disappearance. Make that two.

That someone believed Bob's remarriage was the utter betrayal to his first wife, even though she had already passed, and that someone knew of possible illegal activities so push came to shove to keep that information from being discovered.

I have to admit, I can't help but wonder which of the family members are going to be the one to stand up and come forward for Bob. If it isn't his daughters, son in law or grandson, perhaps it will be one of the greatgrandkids who overheard a conversation among the adults and has the courage to come forward with that information at some point.

I have no doubt this case will be solved and the person(s) responsible held responsible. It's just a matter of when.

 

[believe09]

Secret agreement is not yet listed as filed.

As to the inventory list and my reaction? They killed him. That's my reaction. Who the heck wants to gut their parent's home when they haven't even been declared dead?

My brothers and I are so in dread of the day that we would HAVE to go through my mom's house and get it ready for sale because that means she's not there and is not coming back. And it means that we will never be able to gather at our childhood home again.

These people are soulless monsters, IMO.

Finally, there is a trial in the trust case set for 12-5-12. Anyone know what that's about?

I feel very stupid. I know I have been told certain things about this case before and I've forgotten. I think part of that is because I have not caught up with the threads. (I have it written down where I stopped), so I'm still kind of shaky on all the facts - like the inventory list and what became of it, as you guys just saw - and what discussions are going on here.

I feel if I was totally caught up and spent a bit more time on here I could be of more service.

BBM-funny that. Not.

 

[zwiebel]

Re cubby's post. Didn't expect believe09 to pop up inbetween(Lol)

Now that's a whole different scenario I hadn't thought of. Gosh. I'm going to have a little think.

 

[believe09]

It is wonderful to see all of the interest in Bob's case!!!! It is heartwarming.

Regarding the files-These are massive. Please do not pepper Gitana behind the scenes for access to the docs-there is a process for what is being posted and we are relying on her having the time to help out.

I am just throwing her a lifeline, lol-I know that interest is keen and that people want to see it all. There are some items that have raised the most questions-the trust documents and the super secret agreement. Those will likely be up on WS as soon as possible.

I suppose the super secret agreement has to be actually filed, of course. If it continues to be unfiled, well then you have to believe that there is something eye opening concerning it.

In any case, if you want something more than you see being shared here, please feel free to contact OC Superior to obtain your own copies of the documents. I think it is fair to say that more than one person has done just that. The info is available and out there.

 

[tlcya]

I completely sympathise with the tablet problem. Do you ever get stars?

I am not sure about your theory because I think ( and here I need Angelo or cloudajo,) that the daughters tried to have Bob declared dead very early on, and the court turned them down. Don't take my word for it though.........

ETA....or Sparkyswife. That newbie is pretty good at finding stuff

Thanks, being a newcomer to Bob's case I apreciate being caught up to speed by more the more veteran followers

Even more reason for them to hope and maybe machinate a situation where his widow is forced to do so herself, albeit for entirely different reasons, I would think.

 

[tlcya]

My thoughts on the situation. Disappear Bob so he can't make the changes he was planning on to his estate and so he can't spend his money during his retirement years the way he wishes to. Disappearing him freezes things so to speak until a time he can be declared legally deceased. (In addition to the possibility of uncovering possible illegal activity with Mr. Harrod's assets which he was unaware of....)

It's a preventive measure of sorts, because Bob's didn't just drop dead of heartbreak shortly after his first wifes death. Instead, he moved on, picked himself up and found the happiness he sought. Sadly, that wasn't in the plans for whomever was waiting for Bob's things....

I have to add one other thing to the fear and greed suggested in the reason for Bob's disappearance. Make that two.

That someone believed Bob's remarriage was the utter betrayal to his first wife, even though she had already passed, and that someone knew of possible illegal activities so push came to shove to keep that information from being discovered.

I have to admit, I can't help but wonder which of the family members are going to be the one to stand up and come forward for Bob. If it isn't his daughters, son in law or grandson, perhaps it will be one of the greatgrandkids who overheard a conversation among the adults and has the courage to come forward with that information at some point.

I have no doubt this case will be solved and the person(s) responsible held responsible. It's just a matter of when.

Your assessment into the motivations behind Bob's disappearance are right in line with mine. I hope someday, some family member of Bob's will shed more light on what really happened. I hope.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

My thoughts on the situation. Disappear Bob so he can't make the changes he was planning on to his estate and so he can't spend his money during his retirement years the way he wishes to. Disappearing him freezes things so to speak until a time he can be declared legally deceased. (In addition to the possibility of uncovering possible illegal activity with Mr. Harrod's assets which he was unaware of....)

It's a preventive measure of sorts, because Bob's didn't just drop dead of heartbreak shortly after his first wifes death. Instead, he moved on, picked himself up and found the happiness he sought. Sadly, that wasn't in the plans for whomever was waiting for Bob's things....

I have to add one other thing to the fear and greed suggested in the reason for Bob's disappearance. Make that two.

That someone believed Bob's remarriage was the utter betrayal to his first wife, even though she had already passed, and that someone knew of possible illegal activities so push came to shove to keep that information from being discovered.

I have to admit, I can't help but wonder which of the family members are going to be the one to stand up and come forward for Bob. If it isn't his daughters, son in law or grandson, perhaps it will be one of the greatgrandkids who overheard a conversation among the adults and has the courage to come forward with that information at some point.

I have no doubt this case will be solved and the person(s) responsible held responsible. It's just a matter of when.

I've had a little think - betrayal; absolutely. You only have to look at the elevated position the daughters have given to their passed Mom, and what they have done - are doing - to Fontelle.

Possible illegal activities. Ummmmmm. I wish someone had swapped hard drives on that computer, before it was taken from Bob's home. He probably thought everything was as secure there, as if it had been written down and mailed to his attorney.

 

[Cubby]

It is wonderful to see all of the interest in Bob's case!!!! It is heartwarming.

Regarding the files-These are massive. Please do not pepper Gitana behind the scenes for access to the docs-there is a process for what is being posted and we are relying on her having the time to help out.

I am just throwing her a lifeline, lol-I know that interest is keen and that people want to see it all. There are some items that have raised the most questions-the trust documents and the super secret agreement. Those will likely be up on WS as soon as possible.

I suppose the super secret agreement has to be actually filed, of course. If it continues to be unfiled, well then you have to believe that there is something eye opening concerning it.

In any case, if you want something more than you see being shared here, please feel free to contact OC Superior to obtain your own copies of the documents. I think it is fair to say that more than one person has done just that. The info is available and out there.

BBM. The documents or the answers to the questions? Because gitana's previous post, which I will carry over shortly, requested permission to add the documents, indicating she didn't want to possibly jeaprodize an investigation.

Just trying to clarify what you mean by "will likely be up on WS as soon as possible" and how that relates to gitana's questions below.

tia


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

Snippets from the above post:

As I stated, I have a copy of the entire trust file. Not a list, but the documents themselves. Please see below:



I'm never going to upload the entire two files. It would take days and days to do. The files are feet thick. Go get it yourself and upload away. (Not a response to Believe09!!!!)

Second, I won't upload a thing until I clear it with some of you, first. I am no expert on this case like many of you and so I'm not going to screw up any investigation by being stupid.

Third, I know how to upload but not how to attach to a post here. If I get clearance, please let me know how to do it.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes cubby, I'm getting confused about that too. I want to see the documents, but certainly do not want to see them if it puts any evidence at risk.

Sorry, little rant here - I am upset.
One of our guests here is a qualified therapist and I made the mistake of asking him what he thought of some of the statements made by family. His first question was, 'why do you want to know?'.
2 hours later the result seems to be that I am 'living amongst the dead' because I am afraid; have 'unrealistic' fears that people can commit murder, and that by pointing out he would not feel the same if one of his children went missing, I am somehow wishing them dead! He also said he totally sympathised/knew about having murderers/death in the family because his father had 'died' too.
On closer examination, his dad's not dead. He just left Mom and is living with another woman. Apparently, the only thing I should do is leave WS, stop thinking about missing people because they are dead and do not matter, and then I can find a REAL LIFE WITH LIVING PEOPLE LIKE THIS THERAPIST DID!
I am not a happy bunny about this - a therapist has just told me having a murder in the family is the same as a divorce, and it can all be cured by leaving the best missing persons' forum on the www?
ETA: The therapy was free- frankly, I would pay the man to go away at this point.
ETA: One relevant point I got out of him - he is certain that the sisters who have not asked SIL about the timeline THINK he has murdered Bob ( but i have been told to stress the think).
I am sooo upset though. How can anybody say ignore a murder in the family? How do you do that? Sorry. He's a guest in my house and I have to be polite but......

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, and just to add I didn't even know I had a problem until I spoke to him. I just thought I had found a lovely group of literate, kind, supportive people and was ( still am) really enjoying their company! I am going to serve him sour milk with his cornflakes in the morning!

 

[Cubby]

Yes cubby, I'm getting confused about that too. I want to see the documents, but certainly do not want to see them if it puts any evidence at risk.

Sorry, little rant here - I am upset.
One of our guests here is a qualified therapist and I made the mistake of asking him what he thought of some of the statements made by family. His first question was, 'why do you want to know?'.
2 hours later the result seems to be that I am 'living amongst the dead' because I am afraid; have 'unrealistic' fears that people can commit murder, and that by pointing out he would not feel the same if one of his children went missing, I am somehow wishing them dead! He also said he totally sympathised/knew about having murderers/death in the family because his father had 'died' too.
On closer examination, his dad's not dead. He just left Mom and is living with another woman. Apparently, the only thing I should do is leave WS, stop thinking about missing people because they are dead and do not matter, and then I can find a REAL LIFE WITH LIVING PEOPLE LIKE THIS THERAPIST DID!
I am not a happy bunny about this - a therapist has just told me having a murder in the family is the same as a divorce, and it can all be cured by leaving the best missing persons' forum on the www?
ETA: The therapy was free- frankly, I would pay the man to go away at this point.
ETA: One relevant point I got out of him - he is certain that the sisters who have not asked SIL about the timeline THINK he has murdered Bob ( but i have been told to stress the think).
I am sooo upset though. How can anybody say ignore a murder in the family? How do you do that? Sorry. He's a guest in my house and I have to be polite but......

Well, here are my thoughts for the therapist guest. Some people don't understand wishing to be a voice for those without a voice. I don't think your guest considered that possibility. It's theraputic for some to be a voice for others, when they may not have had a voice in their own situation for various reasons.....

If being that voice for Bob keeps his case not only in the public's eye, but also reminds the perpetrator people are not forgetting, have not forgotten and he or she hasn't necessarily gotten away with it just because they have yet to be arrested, then so be it.

Additionally, some people choose to be coroners or morticians for a living. They work among dead. It doesn't mean they are abnormal or freakish in any way.....

I'd have to ask why would the therapist suggest silencing any voice for those who can no longer cry out for justice for themselves as a cure all? It does nothing but ensure the perp wins!

jmvho of course!