CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[zwiebel]

tlcox, you're cool.

 

[zwiebel]

Sorry GrainneDhu, know we can't sleuth each other but......36 heads of garlic? Are you SURE you want to help him cook whatever that dish is he's cooking (Lol)?

 

[Seajay]

The weather here hasn't been affected by the storms on the East Coast nor the one in the Northwest. We have had no rain, but we've been a little overcast. That usually burns off in the afternoons and the sun comes out.

(Answering the question about the weather in the past few days in the O.C.)

 

[zwiebel]

The weather here hasn't been affected by the storms on the East Coast nor the one in the Northwest. We have had no rain, but we've been a little overcast. That usually burns off in the afternoons and the sun comes out.

(Answering the question about the weather in the past few days in the O.C.)

Thank you Seajay. Glad you guys are safe anyway.

 

[zwiebel]

I let gitana1 know the inventory link was here. Advance warning - if gitana comes back with a response to that, adopt the brace position!

 

[tlcya]

I let gitana1 know the inventory link was here. Advance warning - if gitana comes back with a response to that, adopt the brace position!

If I know gitana1, you are right about that.

Just disgraceful, the behavior of these "loved ones"

ETA the inventory was an exhibit attached to Mr. A's ex parte motion to try to demand an accounting and that the back support be paid. Also attached (not in my post but in the docs thread) was a string of letters back and forth between counsel regarding the overdue support payment.

 

[gitana1]

Hey, it worked for Ronald Reagan!

Of course, that may not have been an act.

And Reagan was only facing Congress, not the IRS.

I am convinced that Cubby has the right idea: a forensic accounting of Bob's finances going back at least 10 years. The only thing I would change is say it should go back to at least 1997, so as to get a clear idea of what Bob was doing with his money before all the house and debt shuffle went on with AH.

I have a question that I hope Gitana can answer. Since the Placentia Police Department has not initiated such an investigation despite Bob's disappearance, is there any other party with standing who could legally initiate such a procedure?

Mrs. Harrod. She could file a wrongful death suit. Then all of that is fair game.

Oriah, that is excellent news. Excellent. I am sitting here just beaming with happiness. As my (dearly loved) old boss would say "it's another star for your crown in heaven."

And yes, it does seem quite odd that none of Bob's descendants thought to ask for a K9. Of course, if I recall correctly, JuM and JeM are interested in Pugs, not exactly a breed noted for its tracking ability. It's kinda difficult for a dog that has difficulties breathing to actually do any scentwork. But still, most dog lovers tend to track dogs in the news and tracking dogs often make the news.

Yes, I'd think the natural assumption would be that Bob left on foot since his car was there. I assume his car was present when JeM arrived to do whatever repairs and it was still present when the CL arrived (if it wasn't present, I think LE would have taken notice much sooner), so that leaves Bob on foot. Even if the assumption was that Bob left in someone else's vehicle, Bob surely walked to the driveway and around his own car or out to the street.

I know my first assumption would certainly not be that Bob did not leave on his own two feet. If I thought that, I'd be screaming at the police to find my father(in-law) and I wouldn't bother calling his wife who was about 2000 miles away in the middle of the night to do so.

And if I thought Bob had not left voluntarily on his own two feet, there is no way I would let my spouse go and spend any time alone in the house. Nor would I spend any time alone in the house, knowing that Bob's house keys had disappeared with him.

It's like those gothic romances where the heroine gets a note telling her to go somewhere alone and she just does it with no apparent sense of suspicion or manifesting any instincts for self preservation. I got so fed up with those heroines that I would actually root for the bad guys, on the grounds that chlorinating the human gene pool by removing the heroine's genes could only be a good thing.

Unfortunately, those heroines did seem to have a knack for attracting spectacularly gifted men.

And perhaps that is it. JeM must realise his wife is so spectacularly gifted that she could not possibly have been in any danger alone in that house.

I wonder if LE used dogs initially to try to track Mr. Harrod? And what they found?

Oriah, this is fantastic news! I am doing a little jig of happiness.
Has the recent bad weather had any effect in OC, does anybody know? I was just thinking that maybe ground might be disturbed, things uncovered...........

It's been pretty dry here. We are on the other side of the country and it's a big country!!

BBM


gitana1, it is the list the daughters prepared 'from memory' of everything in their father's house that belonged to them. They also reserved the right to look around for anything they may have forgotten. Fontelle had to clear out of the house when they descended to pick the house she was living in clean. They made her keep one expensive item though - the chair elevator she didn't want as it was dangerous due to her sight problems.
List is gobsmacking. Will try and find it for you.

SBM

Gitana, as I understand it, that memorabilia list was a list of the things that the co-conservators wanted to secure from Bob's residence. As far as I know, Fontelle agreed to allow them to take all that stuff.

Notice, even the sheets that JuM famously put on the bed in preparation for Fontelle's return to California were on the list. Guess they didn't really belong to Bob, after all.

With the exception of the chair lift, it appears that the co-conservators basically stripped the house, up to and including the frame from Bob's bed. After providing for his family, Bob apparently had very little in the way of personal possessions.

It makes me feel sick. Right now, my entire house is filled with the wonderful aroma of roasting garlic because I have 36 heads of garlic happily roasting away in my oven. The perfume of roasting garlic is so thick right now that I can practically chew the air and the dogs are drooling. My father, who is within a week of Bob in age, has discovered a new delicacy and he asked me if I knew how to fix it. I sent him one head to make sure that it was what he wanted and he asked for "a lot" more.

I'm doing garlic roasting on an industrial scale because I have this superstitious belief that if my daddy is happy here, he won't have time to die. It worked pretty well for my mama (who knew how to be happy).

Maybe that and the legendary powers of garlic will work.

I just don't get the Harrod family.

My response in blue above.

I let gitana1 know the inventory link was here. Advance warning - if gitana comes back with a response to that, adopt the brace position!

Thank you guys so much! Yeah, if they felt their dad is alive and had just wandered off, why did they want to gut his house? I wish Mrs. Harrod had told them no way. Also, I do not notice gold or any of the other items listed in their initial inventory and appraisal listed with the court.

So I guess, there is an anomaly.

RE: GrainneDhu's post about reclaimed bedsheets.

Yes, and after she went to so much trouble (and possible danger) going alone to Bob's house to put them on the bed in the first place.

Notice you used the English 'chair lift' there. Is that just you, or are the terms chair lift and elevator interchangeable in the US?

Chair lift here is used to mean an apparatus you sit in that glides up the stairway. It's different from an elevator (lift) although the concept is the same. Here they call it "stair lift"). Acorn Stairlifts - Everest - YouTube

I am looking now to see if the secret agreement is up.

 

[Cubby]

Excellent to see there is a volunteer willing to bring K9 dogs to Bob's home! Thank you, Oriah!

With regards to Bob 'walking' out the door, I personally do not believe he walked out of that home alive and well the day of his disappearance. In the event he did not, and was carried out in a container, sheets or something along those lines, would the dogs still be as useful?

Just from memory, I seem to recall in Phylicia Barnes case, prosecutors believe she was removed in a 35 gallon container. Dogs tracked her scent to the front door of the apartment building (probably along the route the container was moved). If Bob were removed from his home in a manner described above, how would that work with the dogs this much later? Can you give us a basic explanation for those of us who know little about these dogs?

tia

 

[gitana1]

Secret agreement is not yet listed as filed.

As to the inventory list and my reaction? They killed him. That's my reaction. Who the heck wants to gut their parent's home when they haven't even been declared dead?

My brothers and I are so in dread of the day that we would HAVE to go through my mom's house and get it ready for sale because that means she's not there and is not coming back. And it means that we will never be able to gather at our childhood home again.

These people are soulless monsters, IMO.

Finally, there is a trial in the trust case set for 12-5-12. Anyone know what that's about?

I feel very stupid. I know I have been told certain things about this case before and I've forgotten. I think part of that is because I have not caught up with the threads. (I have it written down where I stopped), so I'm still kind of shaky on all the facts - like the inventory list and what became of it, as you guys just saw - and what discussions are going on here.

I feel if I was totally caught up and spent a bit more time on here I could be of more service.

 

[gitana1]

Excellent to see there is a volunteer willing to bring K9 dogs to Bob's home! Thank you, Oriah!

With regards to Bob 'walking' out the door, I personally do not believe he walked out of that home alive and well the day of his disappearance. In the event he did not, and was carried out in a container, sheets or something along those lines, would the dogs still be as useful?

Just from memory, I seem to recall in Phylicia Barnes case, prosecutors believe she was removed in a 35 gallon container. Dogs tracked her scent to the front door of the apartment building (probably along the route the container was moved). If Bob were removed from his home in a manner described above, how would that work with the dogs this much later? Can you give us a basic explanation for those of us who know little about these dogs?

tia

I wondered the same thing. I think I remember tracking dogs tracking Lacy Peterson all the way to the Berkeley marina though and then staring out at the water (where she was ultimately found).

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Mrs. Harrod. She could file a wrongful death suit. Then all of that is fair game.



I wonder if LE used dogs initially to try to track Mr. Harrod? And what they found?



It's been pretty dry here. We are on the other side of the country and it's a big country!!









Thank you guys so much! Yeah, if they felt their dad is alive and had just wandered off, why did they want to gut his house? I wish Mrs. Harrod had told them no way. Also, I do not notice gold or any of the other items listed in their initial inventory and appraisal listed with the court.

So I guess, there is an anomaly.



Chair lift here is used to mean an apparatus you sit in that glides up the stairway. It's different from an elevator (lift) although the concept is the same. Here they call it "stair lift").n Acorn Stairlifts - Everest - YouTube

I am looking now to see if the secret agreement is up.

Thanks gitana1. Chair lift/stair lift/ I see now it is exactly what we have in England because my granddad had an identical one!
Thank you so much for checking for that secret agreement too.

 

[zwiebel]

Excellent to see there is a volunteer willing to bring K9 dogs to Bob's home! Thank you, Oriah!

With regards to Bob 'walking' out the door, I personally do not believe he walked out of that home alive and well the day of his disappearance. In the event he did not, and was carried out in a container, sheets or something along those lines, would the dogs still be as useful?

Just from memory, I seem to recall in Phylicia Barnes case, prosecutors believe she was removed in a 35 gallon container. Dogs tracked her scent to the front door of the apartment building (probably along the route the container was moved). If Bob were removed from his home in a manner described above, how would that work with the dogs this much later? Can you give us a basic explanation for those of us who know little about these dogs?

tia

Oriah and GrainneDhu are going to answer this comprehensively, I'm sure. Just to add my cent's worth though- my Welsh Border Collie is able to retrieve stones I've thrown into a fast flowing river, full of near identical stones..... He then shakes the water off right beside me, to pay me back for being so mean.

 

[zwiebel]

I wondered the same thing. I think I remember tracking dogs tracking Lacy Peterson all the way to the Berkeley marina though and then staring out at the water (where she was ultimately found).

If only we could find a way to allow those wonderful dogs to speak to us too.....

 

[gitana1]

Okay, as to accountings and such, in relation to the trust case, they filed their first inventory and appraisal of the trust assets on 12-14-10, a first report and accounting non the same date, a trust accounting was set for 3-16-11, they filed a supplemental report and accounting on 3-14-11(because they mysteriously failed to include several accounts in the first inventories, IIRC) and they filed another inventory and appraisal on 2-18-12.

In relation to the conservatorship and the assets controlled by that, they filed and inventory and appraisal on 12-14-10, and account and report on 1-12-12 and an account and report on 6-22-12.

ETA: IIRC, the court approved the accountings.

 

[zwiebel]

Help someone, does that mean the secret settlement deal with AH was approved by the court?

 

[gitana1]

Help someone, does that mean the secret settlement deal with AH was approved by the court?

It doesn't, to my knowledge.

 

[zwiebel]

It doesn't, to my knowledge.

Phew ( wipes perspiring brow with shaky hand).

 

[zwiebel]

So, in layman's terms, it looks like now the daughters have managed to get their hands at least partially on Bob's estate, they are doing everything by the book. It makes sense to me, of course. By the book probably means they are able to pay themselves large executor/ admin fees - whatever they are called. And they are biding time, I'm sure, until Bob is declared dead.

And even though everything is legal now, for me it doesn't detract from the obvious......that something very wrong and very illegal went on originally, for them to get to this 'safe' position they have made for themselves now.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Mrs. Harrod. She could file a wrongful death suit. Then all of that is fair game.



I wonder if LE used dogs initially to try to track Mr. Harrod? And what they found?



It's been pretty dry here. We are on the other side of the country and it's a big country!!









Thank you guys so much! Yeah, if they felt their dad is alive and had just wandered off, why did they want to gut his house? I wish Mrs. Harrod had told them no way. Also, I do not notice gold or any of the other items listed in their initial inventory and appraisal listed with the court.

So I guess, there is an anomaly.



Chair lift here is used to mean an apparatus you sit in that glides up the stairway. It's different from an elevator (lift) although the concept is the same. Here they call it "stair lift"). Acorn Stairlifts - Everest - YouTube

I am looking now to see if the secret agreement is up.

I though there was a bag of gold South African coins (kruggerands) listed?
Excuse spelling there.

 

[gitana1]

So, in layman's terms, it looks like now the daughters have managed to get their hands at least partially on Bob's estate, they are doing everything by the book. It makes sense to me, of course. By the book probably means they are able to pay themselves large executor/ admin fees - whatever they are called. And they are biding time, I'm sure, until Bob is declared dead.

And even though everything is legal now, for me it doesn't detract from the obvious......that something very wrong and very illegal went on originally, for them to get to this 'safe' position they have made for themselves now.

So far, that's how it;s looking to me. However, the secret agreement seems off and I wish it would be challenged but, IIRC, it was part of the settlement with Mrs. Harrod? Anyone?

Also, we don;t know if they sucked monies out of the accounts prior to filing a first account or inventory and appraisal. That's why Believe09, etc., are discussing what the accounts looked like around the time Mr. Harrod disappeared, right?

Actually, thinking of that, Mrs. Harrod could demand those documents in a challenge to their roles as conservators or successor trustees, on the grounds that she believes they may have been playing fast and loose with the accounts.

BBM

I though there was a bag of gold South African coins (kruggerands) listed?
Excuse spelling there.

You may be right. I don't have those docs with me right now but I will look. I haven't looked at them in a awhile.

gitana1, thank you so much for proving me wrong...just what I wanted!

So far, it appears you have a list, not the docs themselves. The one in question has been the Harrod Family Trust, but there are several more and as you had posted way upthread, you didn't want to pay for them (understandable, no blame).

As soon as you get a copy of the trust, I'm sure you would want to upload just that one file to the library here for everyone to see (not the entire case file...nobody ever asked for that, lol).

Thanks again!

~jmo~

I wanted to add something. The trust is an attachment to a documents as I explained. So how does it appear that I only have a list, and not the documents themselves? I'm not sure if you are aware but attachments are not listed in document titles.

Finally, for anyone who wants to view the cases online, for themselves, here's what you do:

1. Click on this link: https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv2/Home.do
2. Hit "accept terms" after the information disclaimer.
3. Then, put 00297798 in for the case number and 2009 for the year filed, for the trust case. (It's 00291267 and 2009 for year filed to access the the conservatorship) and hit enter.
4. The case will then be displayed. You will see three categories: participants (the parties and their attorneys), hearings, which gives you dates of all court action and register of actions which gives you the documents that have been filed.

Unfortunately, you can't order these documents online. You have to go to the court house and pick them up.

Again, I don't want to post anything that could interfere with an investigation. But, looking at the information disclaimer, I have another reason for not wanting to post them. Part of it says, "Visitors further consent to access the record only as instructed by the Court and consent to the Court's monitoring of access to the records. Copyright and other proprietary rights may apply to information in a case file absent an express grant of additional rights by the holder of the copyright or other proprietary right. Use of such information is permissible only to the extent permitted by law or court order, and any use inconsistent with proprietary rights is prohibited."

Even though I am an attorney, I'm not sure exactly what that means. I think that part of it means you can't sell the documents or sell access to them. However, I know organizations like TMZ access and publish these documents all the time. But, it does concern me, especially with how vicious and frightening Mr. Harrod's evil family is.

So, Shana, I hear you are in SoCal.? The address of the court is 341 The City Drive, Orange, CA 92868. You can park in the parking structure on Dawn Way, off The City Drive. You then cross the little street there to Lamoreaux Justice Center, which looks like this:

You will go through the doors on the right (which is the 341 building). There is a metal detector/security you have to go through. Then, take the elevators to the 7th floor. There is a filing window there. You will probably see a line of people going into the filing office. Stand in line and when you get up to the first check in desk, state you want to print some copies. You will get a ticket number or be told to come back when you have your copy code.

Then, go past the rows of chairs where people are sitting waiting to file documents, to the computers straight back from where you came in. Find an empty one. Got to "probate cases". Type in the case number for the case you want and it will come up. In this case, unlike on line, you might have to put in the whole number (30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC and 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJC). The list of docs with then come up. Click on the ones you want to print.

When you have all the doc.s you want checked, you will get a code that you take to the check in desk. (Make sure not to check the button for certified copies because that means each copy has an additional $25.00 charge. You still get file stamped copies without them being certified). The lady then will then give you a ticket to see a clerk. If you are copying the whole file (which is expensive) be advised that you will probably have to go back another day to pick it up because it takes a long time for them to print it all. That's what happened to me. If you want just a few docs, they can likely do it that day.

If you have any questions, let me know.