CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

[Seajay]

This is completely, unnecesssarily offensive to the entire catering corps, if you ask me. Starving troops do not win wars. Plenty of cooks have lost their lives - on sinking ships in WW2, for example, the sea did not choose its victims; cooks drowned too.

RS&BBM: I know during the Vietnam war, those classified as cooks in the Navy still did their rotations out on the tributaries of the Mekong Delta in PBR's (?). I have a very good friend from H.S. who went into the Navy and to Vietnam right out of H.S. He told me this himself. He was a cook, but had to go into the combat areas all the time. When in base, he cooked. He saw combat. He saw his best friend step on a landmine and get blown to bits while they were on patrol together, he had to kill people.

Maybe Bob didn't go to Korea, but while the troops were at Camp Pendleton or whereever he was later stationed, those troops were in training to go into combat and Bob's job as support in that was vital to the morale of the troops. Just to add to what you were saying.

 

[Seajay]

Rose, about Fontelle. She was Bob's first true love back in 1950. When he went into the Marines he was stationed at Camp Pendleton, CA. Before he left, he got engaged to marry Fontelle. He stayed at a boarding house. He wrote letters to Fontelle and set them on a table to be mailed. He thought they were but they were not. Fontelle wrote him letters but they were all returned with "Return to Sender" written on the envelopes. But not by Bob. He never got them. Someone at the boarding house intercepted those letters and sent them back as well as got the letters Bob left to be mailed to Fontelle on a "mail table" and did something with them, but not mail them. This is what got Fontelle and Bob separated. Apparently the owner of the boarding house was the uncle of a girl named Georgia who had lost her father in WWII. She was sweet on Bob and they started a relationship. Bob, thinking Fontelle regretted being engaged to him because she would not write him, went on to marry Georgia and build a life with her, which included 3 daughters.

When Fontelle was reunited with Bob, they discovered what had kept them apart, and realized they had a second chance at love and got married, since they had already been engaged for 59 years, even though they had both married others. End of romantic love story.

 

[zwiebel]

Such a pity that the love story ended there, when it should just have been beginning.

 

[zwiebel]

In my 'cram' above I got the timeline wrong; at least, according to the cleaning lady's version. She says on Disappeared she left Bob's house after three hours' work (around 3pm) and that son-in-law had left just before her.

So that must have been when he went to Home Depot and got the 3.04pm receipt that LE checked out to show JeM 'was where he said he was'. I still don't see how son-in-law being at Home Depot at 3pm helps verify where he was when Bob disappeared, which the cleaning lady says had happened by noon.

Are there any statements in the media about where JeM went following the Home Depot visit?

If the cleaning lady is correct about the time Bob had disappeared by, there is a huge gap;

12pm/noonish - Bob has vanished.

9pm - Bob is finally reported missing. By his wife. 1000 miles away in Missouri, who has only just been informed he was missing.

Next day family members (LE won't say who) tell LE Bob may have dementia, can't walk far, is legally blind, didn't take his glasses or his car and they are very worried about someone he knows whom they regard as suspicious, and a suspicious car son-in-law had seen.

Yet none of these things concerned them enough to report Bob missing the day before, because they thought they were not allowed? It doesn't make sense.

 

[suzyq211]

Also, the handyman/SIL was supposed to return to Bob's house the next day to finish repairs. He did not, supposedly because Bob still was not answering phone.. Instead he let his wife, daughter JuM, go back down alone, to change the sheets.

 

[zwiebel]

I have to bump this post. It is Cloudajo in September 2009, asking the same questions about the timeline we are still asking now. Amazing.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #1

 

[zwiebel]

Also, the handyman/SIL was supposed to return to Bob's house the next day to finish repairs. He did not, supposedly because Bob still was not answering phone.. Instead he let his wife, daughter JuM, go back down alone, to change the sheets.

The changing the sheets business looks odd from any angle. You have to bear in mind that Bob and his wife had already been living in the house as man and wife for several weeks. It was a hugely intrusive thing to do, going into a married couple's home and removing the sheets from their bed without permission. It also seems out of place when her father was missing and there were more important things to do.

Contrast that with JuM's son's behaviour the night before; with a key, but waiting outside on the drive for LE to arrive because he wanted them to accompany him during the welfare check. Why? Was he afraid someone was in the house? Afraid he was entering a crime scene? Afraid Bob would be there and be angry about the intrusion?

If so, it makes his mother's disregard of those same considerations the next day look even odder.

 

[zwiebel]

You could argue JuM was just very concerned about preparing the house for Mrs Harrod's arrival. Fair enough. If that's the case though, why didn't the unfinished repairs concern her enough to persuade her husband to come along and complete them? He had left a note telling Bob he would do so.

For me, it seems obvious that in preparing a house for a senior lady who is legally blind, the priority would be finishing up bathroom repairs, rather than changing sheets, which she was probably perfectly capable of doing herself.

 

[SuziQ]

The changing the sheets business looks odd from any angle. You have to bear in mind that Bob and his wife had already been living in the house as man and wife for several weeks. It was a hugely intrusive thing to do, going into a married couple's home and removing the sheets from their bed without permission. It also seems out of place when her father was missing and there were more important things to do.

Contrast that with JuM's son's behaviour the night before; with a key, but waiting outside on the drive for LE to arrive because he wanted them to accompany him during the welfare check. Why? Was he afraid someone was in the house? Afraid he was entering a crime scene? Afraid Bob would be there and be angry about the intrusion?

If so, it makes his mother's disregard of those same considerations the next day look even odder.

I wonder where those sheets are now? I'm always suspicious of people close to a missing person, who suddenly desire a new floor rug, bedding or mattress, and a sudden urge to redecorate or repair. With these details you can close your eyes and visualize what the crime scene looked like. In Bob's case, we have his sheets snatched off his bed and "home repairs" supposedly planned the day before.

However, I wonder if changing the sheets was to merely an excuse to go back to the house to clean up and stage the scene.

 

[believe09]

I am quite sure laundry was part of that cleaning up process. Anyone think that PPD was given a list of items that were touched or tampered with? Innocently, of course...

 

[tlcya]

The changing the sheets business looks odd from any angle. You have to bear in mind that Bob and his wife had already been living in the house as man and wife for several weeks. It was a hugely intrusive thing to do, going into a married couple's home and removing the sheets from their bed without permission. It also seems out of place when her father was missing and there were more important things to do.

Contrast that with JuM's son's behaviour the night before; with a key, but waiting outside on the drive for LE to arrive because he wanted them to accompany him during the welfare check. Why? Was he afraid someone was in the house? Afraid he was entering a crime scene? Afraid Bob would be there and be angry about the intrusion?

If so, it makes his mother's disregard of those same considerations the next day look even odder.

BBM I will add another possible reason, he wanted LE to witness the entry in to the home.

 

[zwiebel]

I didn't even think of that one, tlcya, thank you. I'd make a terrible police officer.
Now, why would AH have wanted LE to witness him entering the house? Mmmmmmm.......

O/T hope you don't mind, but is that pic your Dakota? Because he/she looks like a real wolf to me........

 

[zwiebel]

In case any evidence of his presence in the house was later unearthed, he could call upon LE to witness the fact of when and where he entered the house?

Surely not? Surely AH's forensic presence was all over the house anyway. He seemed close to Bob. Close enough to keep his computer in Bob's house anyway, and for him to 'understand' without any supporting documentation, that Bob would forgive him a debt of hundreds and hundreds of thousand of dollars, upon his death.

Not that that was any excuse for AH to immediately stop his repayments. Bob was - and is - just missing, after all. Not dead. AH really appears to have thought Bob was deceased very soon after his disappearance. I wonder what gave him that idea?

 

[zwiebel]

I have been hiking round and about the web, and there seems to be quite a few people who have a little knowledge of this case and have presumed one of two things with the info they have read:

1) Fontelle married Bob in a hurry and inherited all his money when he disappeared.

2) The Estate/money was frozen upon Bob's disappearance and has not been accessed and cannot be accessed until he returns.

This is very far from the truth, for anybody reading. It is so far from the truth I cannot even begin to explain it, but maybe some of our other posters can chip in with an explanation or two about where Bob's money has gone, and is going?

 

[Roselvr]

Very abbreviated cram for Roselvr;

Bob is married for many, many years to his first wife, Georgia. They have three daughters. They make a small fortune over the years and put it in a trust to ensure their daughters can inherit without incurring unnecessary tax. The primary purpose of a trust like this is tax reasons, not privacy. If the tax benefits disappeared, so would these trusts.

Thank you. Sounds similar to what was done for my dads estate for the same reason.

2008: Bob's wife dies. Bob's three daughters immediately start asking questions about Mom's will and don't stop until he disappears. This includes a letter from a lawyer.

Unfortunately; this is true of a lot of people & not understanding wills. Either way; the will should have been filed with the state; I'm pretty sure they could have gotten a copy. I have a copy of a few celebrities which are public.

July 27th, 2009. At some point in the morning, Bob's SIL arrives to carry out repairs.
12pm/Noon. Cleaner arrives, Bob is not there. She expresses concern that Bob is not there, to son-in-law who is just returning from somewhere undetermined.
6pm. Cleaner leaves?
6pm Son-in-law leaves?
9pm Fontelle in Missouri is informed by Son-in-law's wife that Bob is missing. Fontelle immediately reports this to CA police.
9.32pm. Son-in-laws' son, AH meets police on the driveway of Bob's house to perform a 'welfare check' for Bob. AH lives within five minute's walk of Bob's home and has access to keys but there is no record of him checking the house before this.
9.32 pm. Bob is officially notified as missing by LE. This has been done by Fontelle, in MO, a thousand miles away from CA.
July 28th, 2009. Son-in-laws wife, JuM, enters Bob's house and replaces the old sheets on his bed with sheets brought from her house.
Jum gives a TV interview stating 'we' (her and her husband, Bob's son-in-law) are 'thinking' Bob disappeared between noon and one.
According to the cleaning lady, both she and son-in-law were present in the house between noon and one, and Bob had already vanished then.

I am open to all and any corrections of course.

BBM -After reading this my thought is that after the family meeting he did not feel comfortable going in the house alone.

Forgot to add a really important point, that Fontelle said Bob had told his family he intended to 'add her to his accounts' and they were not happy about this.

Bob did not get the chance to add Fontelle to his accounts or his will. His estate was unaltered when he disappeared, with the trust passing intact to his daughters.

Two of his daughters are now receiving a monthly fee as conservators of his estate. Amount unknown. Legal costs incurred by the daughters against Bob's wife are being met through Bob's estate. Amount unknown.
AH, grandson of Bob, had significant debts to Bob's estate written off. Costs to Bob's estate, unknown.

Who is paying his wife's legal fees?
I know what it cost me with my dads estate; the attorneys are the ones getting rich.

Roselvr, you know I think you are the bomb and then some...you are one of the strongest peeps I know.

I am so sorry about your dad :hug:

It's weird how the dates in the timeline are dates associated with my dad.

Rose, about Fontelle. She was Bob's first true love back in 1950. When he went into the Marines he was stationed at Camp Pendleton, CA. Before he left, he got engaged to marry Fontelle. He stayed at a boarding house. He wrote letters to Fontelle and set them on a table to be mailed. He thought they were but they were not. Fontelle wrote him letters but they were all returned with "Return to Sender" written on the envelopes. But not by Bob. He never got them. Someone at the boarding house intercepted those letters and sent them back as well as got the letters Bob left to be mailed to Fontelle on a "mail table" and did something with them, but not mail them. This is what got Fontelle and Bob separated. Apparently the owner of the boarding house was the uncle of a girl named Georgia who had lost her father in WWII. She was sweet on Bob and they started a relationship. Bob, thinking Fontelle regretted being engaged to him because she would not write him, went on to marry Georgia and build a life with her, which included 3 daughters.

When Fontelle was reunited with Bob, they discovered what had kept them apart, and realized they had a second chance at love and got married, since they had already been engaged for 59 years, even though they had both married others. End of romantic love story.

That makes more sense. Thank you!

The changing the sheets business looks odd from any angle. You have to bear in mind that Bob and his wife had already been living in the house as man and wife for several weeks. It was a hugely intrusive thing to do, going into a married couple's home and removing the sheets from their bed without permission. It also seems out of place when her father was missing and there were more important things to do.

Changing the sheets may seem weird / intrusive; they were getting the home ready for his wife to come. Things I read from that time; it seemed like everyone expected him to come back home. It's possible the daughter did things for Bob like change the sheets. Was it confirmed she actually did change the sheets or used as excuse to go back into the house to look for the will or something else?

I have been hiking round and about the web, and there seems to be quite a few people who have a little knowledge of this case and have presumed two things with the info they have read:

1) Fontelle married Bob in a hurry and inherited all his money when he disappeared.

2) The Estate/money was frozen upon Bob's disappearance and has not been accessed and cannot be accessed until he returns.

This is very far from the truth, for anybody reading. It is so far from the truth I cannot even begin to explain it, but maybe some of our other posters can chip in with an explanation or two about where Bob's money has gone, and is going?

Hopefully someone will chime in.

By the way; what kind of millions are we talking? Assets or cash?

 

[zwiebel]

Slight correction to the above; if you count an engagement and then a 59-year separation and reuniting and marriage within a month or so as 'hurried', then maybe Bob and Fontelle's was.

What a shock. Why an eighty-one year old and a seventy-five year old wouldn't opt for at least a ten-year engagement, I don't know.

ETA: this was an addition for my post above Roselvr's - had no idea anyone else was around!

 

[zwiebel]

Roselvr, how do you get the multiple quotes in your posts?

 

[zwiebel]

Regarding the Estate value, well over $1 million in the properties we know of for a start. Plus, we know Bob had a very long, successful career as an aeronautical engineer, I think? That would carry a good pension. We don't have any info for his stocks/shares/cash reserves etc, but we know he was in a position to provide hundreds of thousands of dollars of financing for his grandson, as well as hand out the odd $50,000 cash to family or friends.

So I think it's safe to say Bob had at least another $1 million in cash/stocks/shares, but imo, he had substantially more.

 

[zwiebel]

It's a guess, based on the amount Bob lent to his grandson, and Bob's careful, MO nature.

I don't think he would have counted any properties he owned as something to be drawn upon. I don't think he would have considered loaning AH even a quarter of his total cash wealth, let alone half of it or more.

I think Bob was worth getting on for $5 million, in total. But that is just purely a guess, purely imo.

 

[zwiebel]

O/T but I have been busily posting away on Andrea Doe's thread with absolutely no idea Huntington beach is in OC. My embarrassment knows no bounds. I'm never going to get the hang of this America thing. Any chance you could make your country smaller, please?