CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

[zwiebel]

Always praying for Bob's return, and Peace for Fontelle :rose:


I've been gone, but feel I've kept up with all of you to a fair extent. I'm anxious for resolution in this case. In my head, the list of suspects is still at 2, and nothing new has caused me to veer from these 2.

Anxious to see 1 or both of them enjoying their well earned perp walk.

:bump:

Hello MaryNo, how lovely to see you here!

 

[Cubby]

If Bob had not disappeared, I like to imagine he and Fontelle engaged in mild adventures. Like maybe one of those Alaska cruises. A tour of England and Europe. Things like that, where they could see new things and have new experiences to share.

And of course going back to Missouri together to visit Fontelle's children and grandchildren and take a look at the old home town to see how it has changed.

So many things they could have done and should have had the opportunity to do.

This post brings tears to my eyes. That is exactly how I envisioned Bob and Fontelle spending their time together. IMO, the motive is that would have cost money. Bob spending his money on himself and his wife, would deplete what the vultures were expecting.

We have a grandson of Bob's who stopped paying his mortgage within days of his disappearance because he believed his loan would be forgiven upon Bob's death. Hundreds of thousands of dollars not repaid to Bob.

And the mile long memorabilia list which Mrs. Harrod agreed to let the girls take.

Who is profiting most from Bob's disappearance?

What's left for him when he returns home besides four walls, a roof and his wife?

 

[zwiebel]

.....and a whole bunch of devoted websleuthers.

 

[zwiebel]

Just wanted to post my thanks to the former US Marine who helped me out today and whom I have never met. I know you said I was welcome to post your name but I'm afraid I won't. You may be tough enough but I'm not - the mods would get me for a start. Thanks again, anyhow.

 

[Seajay]

I wonder what Georgia's Will said. If she is like most couples, they each left their share to the surviving spouse. In this case, Bob. That would make Bob 100% in ownership of all the marital properties and funds. So if Bob remarried, added his new wife to his accounts, and to his Will, he may have done the same thing, left all of it to Fontelle, therefore leaving the 3 daughters out of it. Now Fontelle is in control of it if she survived Bob and everything goes to her children, effectively leaving Bob's children out of it. I can see how this would sit sideways with them, thinking their mother's half was going to this woman, as well as them potentially ending up with nothing if Bob didn't provide for them in his Will. It could be as Bob went along the way, buying houses and giving money to his daughters and grandson, that he felt he'd given them quite enough.

So it would be imparative to make sure that Bob didn't get the chance to do that. He had to go, he had to be gone, he had to disappear in order for them to protect their interest in the estate.

 

[Seajay]

Ok, our timeline is:

11:30 am-11:45 am, Bob on the phone to PB.
11:35 am-11:45 am, JeM leaves to go to HD
12:00 noon-CL and JeM arrive at the house which is locked and no sign of Bob.

So we are to believe that Bob disappeared between say 11:45 am and noon? That's 15 minutes. No man I have ever met can drive to HD, shop, and check out in be back home in 15 to 20 minutes. None. Does JeM have a receipt for that visit like the one he has for his 3 pm visit later that day??? If not, why would he have a receipt for one trip but not another and wouldn't there be video survillence of JeM both times he was there??

So this whole window of Bob disappearance is down to 15 minutes or am I missing something huge here. At one time I thought we were talking about a 2 1/2 hour window. That got closed when we discovered it was noon when the CL got there and not 3 pm like we originally thought. What am I missing??

 

[GrainneDhu]

This post brings tears to my eyes. That is exactly how I envisioned Bob and Fontelle spending their time together. IMO, the motive is that would have cost money. Bob spending his money on himself and his wife, would deplete what the vultures were expecting.

We have a grandson of Bob's who stopped paying his mortgage within days of his disappearance because he believed his loan would be forgiven upon Bob's death. Hundreds of thousands of dollars not repaid to Bob.

And the mile long memorabilia list which Mrs. Harrod agreed to let the girls take.

Who is profiting most from Bob's disappearance?

What's left for him when he returns home besides four walls, a roof and his wife?

If Bob returns alive, I think he'd be infuriated with his descendants. Not so much the money or possessions but the way they have treated Fontelle.

Sadly, I am convinced that Bob is dead.

 

[Cubby]

Ok, our timeline is:

11:30 am-11:45 am, Bob on the phone to PB.
11:35 am-11:45 am, JeM leaves to go to HD
12:00 noon-CL and JeM arrive at the house which is locked and no sign of Bob.

So we are to believe that Bob disappeared between say 11:45 am and noon? That's 15 minutes. No man I have ever met can drive to HD, shop, and check out in be back home in 15 to 20 minutes. None. Does JeM have a receipt for that visit like the one he has for his 3 pm visit later that day??? If not, why would he have a receipt for one trip but not another and wouldn't there be video survillence of JeM both times he was there??

So this whole window of Bob disappearance is down to 15 minutes or am I missing something huge here. At one time I thought we were talking about a 2 1/2 hour window. That got closed when we discovered it was noon when the CL got there and not 3 pm like we originally thought. What am I missing??

I don't for a second believe PB spoke with Bob at 11:45 am. Imo Bob was gone shortly after he spoke to the CL and well before 11:45.

Let's put it this way. I do not for a second buy that JeM was returning from the Home Depot when he found the CL waiting on Bob's stoop. IMO, he was returning from wherever he disposed of Bob. That's my theory.... and the odd jobs around the house were to clean up a crime scene.

JeM put way too much effort into acting calm as if everything was normal, right down to the note he left Bob stating he'd be returning to finish whatever work he left unfinished. He knew Bob was never going to see that note when he wrote it. It was staging because he knew was coming next.

I'll also add, that the hours and hours long delay in contacting Mrs. Harrod to advise her Bob was missing was so that the CA family could concoct the story about the phantom SUV. They needed to come up with a story after being surprised by the visit from the CL.

Yep, that's my theory.

 

[Cubby]

If Bob returns alive, I think he'd be infuriated with his descendants. Not so much the money or possessions but the way they have treated Fontelle.

Sadly, I am convinced that Bob is dead.

I'm convinced Bob was dead before the CL arrived about noon to find no one answering the door. :sigh:

 

[zwiebel]

I think there are many, many people around this case who are convinced Bob is dead.

And there is at least one person who knows for certain.

 

[Roselvr]

I wonder what Georgia's Will said. If she is like most couples, they each left their share to the surviving spouse. In this case, Bob. That would make Bob 100% in ownership of all the marital properties and funds. So if Bob remarried, added his new wife to his accounts, and to his Will, he may have done the same thing, left all of it to Fontelle, therefore leaving the 3 daughters out of it. Now Fontelle is in control of it if she survived Bob and everything goes to her children, effectively leaving Bob's children out of it. I can see how this would sit sideways with them, thinking their mother's half was going to this woman, as well as them potentially ending up with nothing if Bob didn't provide for them in his Will. It could be as Bob went along the way, buying houses and giving money to his daughters and grandson, that he felt he'd given them quite enough.

So it would be imparative to make sure that Bob didn't get the chance to do that. He had to go, he had to be gone, he had to disappear in order for them to protect their interest in the estate.

I personally don't know anyone who's will is like that.
It is specifically put in trust so that it would not end up like that.
Husband & wife have wills drawn up; they usually mirror the other. Someone a little older then Bob; it's been set up to make it easy on the kids to deal with upon the surviving spouses death. The home can be put into a trust or the kids names to share equally. The older people I know have a home that is paid for; they are living on social security & pension.

My dads was worded so that it was not able to go to anyone not in the blood line; it was protected from divorce as it was not to be considered a marital asset.

Bob adding F to his accounts may not mean much if his bulk was already in a trust. She would only have access to the cash in a bank account. As for adding her to his will; she could be added without being allowed to control any money or assets.

Ok, our timeline is:

11:30 am-11:45 am, Bob on the phone to PB.
11:35 am-11:45 am, JeM leaves to go to HD
12:00 noon-CL and JeM arrive at the house which is locked and no sign of Bob.

So we are to believe that Bob disappeared between say 11:45 am and noon? That's 15 minutes. No man I have ever met can drive to HD, shop, and check out in be back home in 15 to 20 minutes. None. Does JeM have a receipt for that visit like the one he has for his 3 pm visit later that day??? If not, why would he have a receipt for one trip but not another and wouldn't there be video survillence of JeM both times he was there??

So this whole window of Bob disappearance is down to 15 minutes or am I missing something huge here. At one time I thought we were talking about a 2 1/2 hour window. That got closed when we discovered it was noon when the CL got there and not 3 pm like we originally thought. What am I missing??

He was at CVS in the morning; not Depot. From what I read; it was confirmed he was at CVS

 

[Cubby]

He was at CVS in the morning; not Depot. From what I read; it was confirmed he was at CVS

Respectfully snipped.

It was JeM's words that told LE he was returning from Home Depot when he arrived and found the CL waiting on the stoop. However, his receipt from Home Depot is stamped about 3 hours *after* the CL arrived.

His CVS visit was prior to his initial arrival at Bob's in the morning. The CVS visit was prior to the 10:00 am phone call from someone other than family, confirmed by LE.

Where was JeM arriving from when he found the CL waiting at noon? That question has never been answered.

 

[zwiebel]

Don't know how to bring JamaicanMeCrazy's post over but it's linked below this snipped quote. We don't know exactly how the trust or will worked, but I do agree with this poster that daughter RB's letter to Bob gives us a very good idea of how the daughters and SIL feared it was working out;

Respectfully snipped from JamaicanMeCrazy's post:

Next once the daughters got the information letter from Bob’s attorney. It becomes apparent to RB that the bypass trust is a tax shelter for Bob. This is why she wanted clarification of the wording “if he needs” and “standards set forth in the trust instrument”

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. “the rights of beneficiaries”…”incompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trust”…”as beneficiary, I am entitled to”… “speculation”…”suspicion very stressful for me to endure”…”speculation and suspicion”…”legal rights of beneficiaries”…” family strife suffering”

This letter was written and sent just ten days before Bob vanished from his home. There is no doubt in my mind that this letter set the tone of the meeting Sunday the 26th of July 2009 the day before JM came over to take care of some needs at Bobs home.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[zwiebel]

From the letter we can see that RB will be able to support AH's statement to the police that 'there had been fighting in the family'. She does say in her own letter, after all, that Bob had launched into a 'lengthy and totally uncalled-for angry tirade' against his son-in-law in January.

If it's true there was a 'tirade' by Bob against JeM, and it really was 'totally uncalled for', I wonder how JeM felt about that? And then the same subject came up again at the family meeting the day before Bob disappeared. PB said her dad 'got heated' again. JeM was there too. I wonder if Bob launched into an 'angry tirade' against him again. Is that what Bob 'getting heated' means?

Whatever. I guess they must have resolved any differences by the the next day, 27th July, when JeM arrived to carry out the minor repairs at Bob's house.

 

[zwiebel]

Just to recap:

AH, grandson - told LE there had been fighting in the family

RB, daughter - says in a letter Bob had subjected son-in-law to an 'angry tirade'.

PB, daughter - says in an article that Bob 'got heated' at a family meeting the day before he disappeared.

So a majority of Bob's close blood relatives seem to support each other's version of rocky family relations at the time, really. All that's missing is something from JuM and JeM.

Are there any statements from JuM that anyone can think of, that might back up what her sisters and son have said about the difficult family relationship?

 

[Cubby]

Oh, the poison pen letter from RB.

To quote a portion of JMC's post:

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. “the rights of beneficiaries”…”incompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trust”…”as beneficiary, I am entitled to”… “speculation”…”suspicion very stressful for me to endure”…”speculation and suspicion”…”legal rights of beneficiaries”…” family strife suffering”


It should be noted this letter was sent to Bob's attorney after he married Fontelle and during the period she was in Missouri packing her belongings.

Sure sounds like the demands for Mr. Harrod's assets escalated during the 3 weeks Mrs. Harrod was in MO packing her things.

Bob's daughters know what is in their mothers will. It was filed in May of 2008. There is no way they didn't see it as they claim. I suspect they were disappointed with what she willed them which then caused demands upon Bob for more.

 

[zwiebel]

And don't forget, RB's letter was replying to one from Bob's attorney. And she quotes something that was said that I think was very important:

'Bob-----is entitled to additional distribution from the bypass trust if he needs them'

That obviously worried her very much. She asks for clarification of 'if he needs', and underlines the word 'needs'. And then she repeats that she wants the words 'standards' and 'needs' defining.

In the same letter, RB says she actually has no interest in Bob's personal finances, but is in effect, asking Bob's attorney to tell her exactly how much Bob is entitled to spend on his personal needs - from the trust he created.

Sad to say, I think Bob's attorney telling Bob's daughters (quite correctly) that Bob was entitled to additional distribution from the bypass trust.........well, sometimes a little knowledge goes a long way. Too far, in fact.

 

[zwiebel]

As RB seemed so in favour of complete openess and honesty regarding the spending/distribution of the trust (at least among family) does anyone think, now she's a conservator of that same trust, she'd be willing to let Mrs Harrod know exactly how much is now being spent on legal 'needs' and conservators' 'needs' (fees)?

That would probably be Bob's wishes, after all.

 

[zwiebel]

I know to loved ones, getting on for four years with a loved one being missing must seem like a lifetime. So I hope what I'm about to say doesn't cause any offence. It's just that, to LE, time doesn't seem to matter at all.

Even when detectives retire, they don't ever seem to forget their unsolved cases. And new detectives seem to inherit the mantel and become just as committed. Of course they can't carry out full-scale searches every day for 10 or 20 years, but they never forget, it seems to me.

Look at this case, in OC. An elderly, legally blind man who, it seems, may have disappeared way back in 2005.

And here's the OC register today, reporting on bones found, a son in jail on felony embezzlement charges and possible murder charges pending, awaiting a coroner's report.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/dominguez-409583-home-yard.html

See what I mean? I bet whoever put those bones there thought they would be long dead and gone themselves before anything was discovered. They didn't count on LE's long memory.

 

[Oriah]

Imvho, LE has a long memory indeed.