CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[tamild]

Have you read AH's deposition? His stopping his mortgage payment within 4 days of Bob's disappearance due to his belief his mortgage note was to be forgiven upon his grandfathers death is highly suspicious.

Additionally, he is incredibly evasive about various loans from Bob and other financial institutions, as well as his prior bk. I believe he had a previous mortgage loan through Bob which he included in the BK (see depo), so this non payment of a mortgage wasn't a new thing.

His silence surrounding his grandfathers disappearance, similiar to his parents, is also highly suspicious.

The depo is long, but it is well worth the read and probably should be read a few times, because the subject matter tends to hop around a bit.

What led AH to believe his grandfather was deceased within a few days of his disappearance?

Yes, I did read it. I should probably read it again, though. I agree that it hops around a lot!

I guess what I don't understand is the timing. That family meeting quite likely had something to do with Bob's disappearance, but what roll would AH have in any of that? He wasn't named as a beneficiary, so Fontelle being added to the accounts shouldn't have any effect on him.

Would Bob have thrown AH out of his house and dragged him into court for not paying his mortgage? It seems that Bob was more than willing to bail AH out of his messes. I don't know. I'm seeing AH in the same boat as the BL. Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg?

 

[Cubby]

I don't see Bob as the golden egg for AH, if AH was hundreds of thousands in debt to him. I see all of them fearful Bob would have depleted their inheritance by enjoying the remainder of his life with his wife and his money. ETA: I see the motive the daughters assigned to BL as being a strong motive for AH.

AH's apparent juggling of loans between financial instituions leaves me highly suspicious he was in some financial trouble that would have come to light had Mr. Harrod added Fontelle to his accounts.

I also find it highly unlikely Bob just called Andrew out of the blue and suggested a refi as AH suggests in his depo. I'd believe the Cubs were gonna win the World Series this year, before I believe Bob just up and out of the blue offered AH more than a half million in a refi.

Let's not forget everything the Michaels family owned or was promised via the mile long memorabilia list.

All of it combined is just too hinky.

 

[SuziQ]

IMO, AH was doing some creative financing with Bob's accounts that Bob was not aware of and was about to discover.

Does anyone know if a forensic accounting was done in this case?

 

[Cubby]

IMO, AH was doing some creative financing with Bob's accounts that Bob was not aware of and was about to discover.

Does anyone know if a forensic accounting was done in this case?

That's my gut feeling, too. Especially after having learnt not only did AH change his last name from Michaels to Harrod, he added or changed his middle name to Robert. The names being so close, AH knowing Bob's personal info and having a computer at Bob's house. And iirc, at one time JuM had posted on her community forum her son is a computer genious.

IDK, but hope to heck, a forensic accounting was or is being done in this case.

It would not surprise me in the least to learn one of those twists Det. Radomski wouldn't be surprised to see happen, was the public learning AH was doing some creative financing with Bob's money.

 

[tlcya]

:thud:

The black SUV/vehicle

Wasn't that the one that supposedly fit the description for the haridresser/friend?

Possibly the reason the family waited for Fontelle to place the missing person report?

"daddy's missing" followed by we don't know where he might be and well there waaaas a suspicious vehicle noticed on the street that day, it looked like this . . .

So Fontelle calls LE to report Mr. Harrod missing

hmmm

accusing the hairdresser in a very roundabout way through Fontelle, making her the deliverer of the news to LE.

 

[tamild]

IMO, AH was doing some creative financing with Bob's accounts that Bob was not aware of and was about to discover.

Does anyone know if a forensic accounting was done in this case?

I'm not saying it's not possible, but wouldn't the aunts be all over that if it were so? I can't imagine them not flipping out...that's messing with what they believe is "their" money.

 

[tamild]

I don't see Bob as the golden egg for AH, if AH was hundreds of thousands in debt to him. I see all of them fearful Bob would have depleted their inheritance by enjoying the remainder of his life with his wife and his money. ETA: I see the motive the daughters assigned to BL as being a strong motive for AH.

AH's apparent juggling of loans between financial instituions leaves me highly suspicious he was in some financial trouble that would have come to light had Mr. Harrod added Fontelle to his accounts.

I also find it highly unlikely Bob just called Andrew out of the blue and suggested a refi as AH suggests in his depo. I'd believe the Cubs were gonna win the World Series this year, before I believe Bob just up and out of the blue offered AH more than a half million in a refi.

Let's not forget everything the Michaels family owned or was promised via the mile long memorabilia list.

All of it combined is just too hinky.

BBM

Hinky, yes. I'll agree with that. I would like to find out a little more about AH. Where he was that day, if he had any roll in the meeting, etc.

 

[zwiebel]

It was actually Fontelle, not AH, that reported the suspicious black SUV to police after being fed the information from JuM.

AH did not mention anything about the SUV to police during the well being check. He only mentioned the family fighting and Bob being frustrated by the situation.

Of course. But I think the answer may well be the same, as with AH there is a choice of two people who could have told him - His dad JeM or Mom JuM -although with Fontelle we know how she knew, as she says in the LE report. JuM told her. Repeating my car timeline to inlude Fontelle then;

Looking at our transcript, one thing I am pleased to see confirmed is that son-in-law JeM gave the lead to detectives about the suspicious black vehicle driving up and down outside Bob's house on the Monday Bob disappeared. He suddenly remembered this, during one of his police interviews.

Tuesday morning is when the formal investigation is launched, and the first thing Detective Loomis said police did was canvas the neighbourhood. So it seems JeM did not speak to detectives straight away. Certainly not on Monday when Bob disappeared. That is worth remembering.

The suspicious black car must have slipped his mind completely, as at first he tells police he noticed nothing unusual and could only think Bob might have become unwell or gone to visit a neighbour, according to Det Radomski. Wednesday was when Radomski from the homicide division was called in to take a 'fresh look' at the case.

JeM's first interview/s is followed by an extensive search of Bob's house and forensic search of JeM's car. It is only after however many days this took, that JeM seems to have been interviewed again and suddenly remembers the suspicious black car in the middle of his interview. So it took him at least until Wednesday to remember, but maybe until Thursday or Friday or even later.

Which begs the question, how did Fontelle know all about the suspicious black car when she mentioned it to police on Monday night, here?:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion

So, with the question amended, the answer is definitely JuM. No matter anyway; There was only one person who saw the car and could have told JuM about it on Monday night - her husband JeM.
*
He remembered the car Monday night, he must have to have told his wife. He forgot the car in his first interview with LE, when Det Radomski says: "There was nothing specific mentioned by Jeff about Bob's behaviour, other than that he felt maybe he had gone to an appointment....or had become ill."

'Later, Jeff's car was clean. Jeff tells police that he had nothing to do with Bob's disappearance and provides them with a new lead'.

Which LE already had because Fontelle told them on Monday. A lead passed from JeM, via JuM. I wonder if JeM and JuM weren't sure if Fontelle had taken the bait?

Or even.....if JeM had been reluctant to mention it to LE because the 'suspicious black car' had been somebody else's bright idea, and he thought it seemed highly improbable. As I do.

 

[Cubby]

:thud:

The black SUV/vehicle

Wasn't that the one that supposedly fit the description for the haridresser/friend?

Possibly the reason the family waited for Fontelle to place the missing person report?

"daddy's missing" followed by we don't know where he might be and well there waaaas a suspicious vehicle noticed on the street that day, it looked like this . . .

So Fontelle calls LE to report Mr. Harrod missing

hmmm

accusing the hairdresser in a very roundabout way through Fontelle, making her the deliverer of the news to LE.

I agree. Very, very strange how that information was delivered to LE by way of Fontelle. Ya know, because if it were true, there was no reason for JeM to have left Bob's home without going to police and there is no way in he77 he is going to allow his wife to go alone to her dads, if her dad was just 'abducted' or harmed by someone in a mysterious black SUV.

IIRC, JeM's comment to LE regarding the SUV was "I may have possibly" seen.... Really? I may have possibly sounds rather uncertain as if he was trying to say something without lying.

As we know there is always a bit of truth revealed to LE when persons responsible are questioned. JeM's comment that maybe Bob had fallen ill, was that bit of truth, imo. And, I think JeM knows when and how Bob 'fell ill'.

Ya, his FIL fell ill, he left and never came back..... does that sound logical for a caring SIL of an elderly man?

 

[Cubby]

BBM

Hinky, yes. I'll agree with that. I would like to find out a little more about AH. Where he was that day, if he had any roll in the meeting, etc.

We don't know where AH was the day of his grandfathers disappearance.
He lived about a block or two away from his grandfathers at the time of Bob's disppearance..... and it wouldn't surprise me if his parents visited him and his family at his home following the heated family meeting.

 

[Mels3kidz]

Yes, I did read it. I should probably read it again, though. I agree that it hops around a lot!

I guess what I don't understand is the timing. That family meeting quite likely had something to do with Bob's disappearance, but what roll would AH have in any of that? He wasn't named as a beneficiary, so Fontelle being added to the accounts shouldn't have any effect on him.

Would Bob have thrown AH out of his house and dragged him into court for not paying his mortgage? It seems that Bob was more than willing to bail AH out of his messes. I don't know. I'm seeing AH in the same boat as the BL. Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg?

***
The difference is the CL wasn't in debt to Bob..... AH was. For a very very very large amount of money.

Suddenly Bob's gone, he stops payment on his loan debt AND he makes a ( IMO) shady deal with his aunts to have the debt forgiven (it smacks of a either a payoff or hush money....maybe the reason for the reward stipulation). IMO Bob's disappearance was AH's Golden Goose.

Mel

 

[zwiebel]

:thud:

The black SUV/vehicle

Wasn't that the one that supposedly fit the description for the haridresser/friend?

Possibly the reason the family waited for Fontelle to place the missing person report?

"daddy's missing" followed by we don't know where he might be and well there waaaas a suspicious vehicle noticed on the street that day, it looked like this . . .

So Fontelle calls LE to report Mr. Harrod missing

hmmm

accusing the hairdresser in a very roundabout way through Fontelle, making her the deliverer of the news to LE.

Yes, definitely. But I can't understand JeM's strange reluctance/inability to follow this up when LE interviewed him. Something doesn't fit here.

Daughters say they went to see the hairdresser. I wonder if JeM knew by the time of his interview, - before LE even did - that the hairdresser did indeed have a solid alibi?

 

[zwiebel]

That's my gut feeling, too. Especially after having learnt not only did AH change his last name from Michaels to Harrod, he added or changed his middle name to Robert. The names being so close, AH knowing Bob's personal info and having a computer at Bob's house. And iirc, at one time JuM had posted on her community forum her son is a computer genious.

IDK, but hope to heck, a forensic accounting was or is being done in this case.

It would not surprise me in the least to learn one of those twists Det. Radomski wouldn't be surprised to see happen, was the public learning AH was doing some creative financing with Bob's money.

Isn't there a mention of AH talking to Bob's accountant in the depo? And AH fumbles and says no, it was an email. And then fumbles some more and adds it was an email sent to his grandfather - who family have said did not use a computer, or even a mobile phone?

 

[Cubby]

Of course. But I think the answer may well be the same, as with AH there is a choice of two people who could have told him - His dad JeM or Mom JuM -although with Fontelle we know how she knew, as she says in the LE report. JuM told her. Repeating my car timeline to inlude Fontelle then;



So, with the question amended, the answer is definitely JuM. No matter anyway; There was only one person who saw the car and could have told JuM about it on Monday night - her husband JeM.
*
He remembered the car Monday night, he must have to have told his wife. He forgot the car in his first interview with LE, when Det Radomski says: "There was nothing specific mentioned by Jeff about Bob's behaviour, other than that he felt maybe he had gone to an appointment....or had become ill."

'Later, Jeff's car was clean. Jeff tells police that he had nothing to do with Bob's disappearance and provides them with a new lead'.

Which LE already had because Fontelle told them on Monday. A lead passed from JeM, via JuM. I wonder if JeM and JuM weren't sure if Fontelle had taken the bait?

Or even.....if JeM had been reluctant to mention it to LE because the 'suspicious black car' had been somebody else's bright idea, and he thought it seemed highly improbable. As I do.

BBM. Thank you, I had forgotten about this comment in the disappeared episode. I still don't know how that relates to AH though, according to the well being check he never mentioned the black SUV to LE. :waitasec:

I do think JeM got the idea because it was suggested to him. He didn't deny it, so JuM went further and further with it, probably asking him if he mentioned it to police and when he said no after the first interview, she probably hounded him to mention it during Friday's interview.

Though, I am still uncertain there was an interview with JeM before the Friday interview mentioned on Disappeared. I think "and provides them with a new lead" doesn't necessarily mean during a second interview. It could mean later in the first and only interview.

 

[zwiebel]

It is also very puzzling to hear grandson is skilled with computers. Yet in three and half years he has not even been able to get a decent fb page going for his grandfather, let alone a high, online presence to highlight Bob's case.

I thought they were supposed to be very close, but it sounds like AH simply did not make much effort to find Bob, despite that. Even though Mom says he was more than capable.

 

[Cubby]

Isn't there a mention of AH talking to Bob's accountant in the depo? And AH fumbles and says no, it was an email. And then fumbles some more and adds it was an email sent to his grandfather - who family have said did not use a computer, or even a mobile phone?

I seem to recall something about an email from AH's depo, I'd have to look closer again.

I do recall JuM stating in the memorabilia list the computer in Bob's home belonged to AH. It's possible AH set it up so he could access the data from another location.

ETA: After reading AH's deposition he comes across as being incredibly shady. He basically avoided every question asked of him as much as he possibly could. That doesn't sound like something someone with nothing to lose would do.

 

[believe09]

AH was the only grandchild of Bob and Georgia. AH changed his name to his grandfather's name. AH likely had no knowledge until the heated family meeting of what his portion of the trusts would be and what his grandfather would leave him.

I wonder what his thoughts were when he found out? On top of that, if you read his deposition with an eye for a financial shell game, all of the missing money that he cant remember combined with the constant refinancing has to be some kind of red flag. I mean, what kind of lifestyle is he living that he constantly needed tens of thousands of dollars available to him? Above and beyond what he was earning? Well, if he was earning I should say. Why in the world would he need a line of credit in the hundreds of thousands of dollars? I dont recall his job being anything other than solidly middle class. *shrug*

 

[believe09]

Go back and count the I dont knows and the I cant recalls...

 

[Cubby]

Go back and count the I dont knows and the I cant recalls...

Did anyone actually make it through the I don't knows and I can't recalls?
There were so many, I lost count - a few times. I would be interested to know how many there are, if someone actually made it through and counted them all.

 

[believe09]

Did anyone actually make it through the I don't knows and I can't recalls?
There were so many, I lost count - a few times. I would be interested to know how many there are, if someone actually made it through and counted them all.

I did the first time I read it. I swear I came up with 90, but I will count again. Mind you the depo was about 90 minutes in length.