CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[TDW59]

On thread 11 midway thro. Folks are speculating about how Bob may have been lead or enticed out of his home.
Regarding what time he arose and what time he may have made his bed, CAExile stated that he kept irregular sleeping and eating schedules, doing both as and when he felt like it.

As far as getting him out of the house, leaving things he normally would not, it crosses my mind that he could very very easily have been drugged. There are very quick acting anti-anxiety drugs and sleep drugs that could have been put in a cup of coffee cordially served to him. Some benzos would take effect within 15 minutes! He could be disoriented and confused or actually fall asleep.

These drugs are so very commonly prescribed and reading the eldest daughter I find her to be a likely candidate for possessing such prescriptions.
I find her to be unstable and possibly mentally ill.
But almost anyone can get these prescriptions.

One person reported that the family gathered at the home of AH after the fateful family meeting at Bob's. Is this confirmed?

I niggle over details.
Of course that would be premeditation.

 

[LeBlanc99]

I watched the show this weekend and all I could think about was how unemotional the daughters were. Especially Paula. Maybe unemotional is the wrong word; they were obviously angry with their father but clearly not sad or upset about his being "missing". And why didn't the SIL appear on the show? Hmmmmm. IMO, Fontelle was down-to-earth and funny, and those sisters were full of BS and know exactly what happened to their dad.

 

[Cubby]

Cubby, I wanted to bring up a post I found when I was back in the earliest threads from years ago, yesterday. Now I've lost it. But it was you, saying how Bob's case had grown cold and hadn't seen any activity for ages, so you'd bumped it up.

So I just wanted to thank you for that simple gesture, all that time ago. And thank you so much for doing so much for Bob, for so many years.

Thanks. I remember that day. I remember scrolling through pages of threads looking for those which were about to have a 1 year anniversary when I found and bumped Bobs.

I was just curious why there was so much activity and interest and then suddenly, nothing.

I'm so glad Bob's case was one I found..... and how much we have all contributed to this case. None of us could do it alone, we're a team here.

Every day is a day closer to solving this case and seeing Justice for Bob.

We're here for the long haul, no matter how long it takes.
Just like diehard Cub fans are in it for the long run.

 

[Cubby]

Question (SAR-related ) What do ya'll think about getting a calculus based flowchart set up, using all of the POI's named- which is pretty much everyone I guess at this point.
Calling all math geeks? anyone, anyone??

:floorlaugh:. Sorry, I suck at math. I'm the farthest thing from a math geek, in fact, I can't even get through a 5th grade math problem on a DS game with the way the teach it today. I can get the correct answer, just not the steps they want to arrive at the answer, lol.

 

[Cubby]

On thread 11 midway thro. Folks are speculating about how Bob may have been lead or enticed out of his home.
Regarding what time he arose and what time he may have made his bed, CAExile stated that he kept irregular sleeping and eating schedules, doing both as and when he felt like it.

As far as getting him out of the house, leaving things he normally would not, it crosses my mind that he could very very easily have been drugged. There are very quick acting anti-anxiety drugs and sleep drugs that could have been put in a cup of coffee cordially served to him. Some benzos would take effect within 15 minutes! He could be disoriented and confused or actually fall asleep.

These drugs are so very commonly prescribed and reading the eldest daughter I find her to be a likely candidate for possessing such prescriptions.
I find her to be unstable and possibly mentally ill.
But almost anyone can get these prescriptions.

One person reported that the family gathered at the home of AH after the fateful family meeting at Bob's. Is this confirmed?

I niggle over details.
Of course that would be premeditation.

It's Bob's youngest daughter, the wife of SIL, who appears to be unstable and possibly mentally ill.

I agree Bob could have been drugged.
According to information which was provided via email upthread, (one of dreamweavers posts, iirc) the am convenience store trip made by SIL was to a CVS pharmacy. I'm sure there are things that could be purchased OTC which would also effect someone fairly quickly.

Also, It's always possible to get some of those prescription drugs on the streets though and some doctors are pretty loose with handing over prescriptions for pain killers.

 

[Cubby]

A huge thank you to all who have joined due to Bob's case and those who have come out of lurkdom for Bob's case. I am very grateful you have chosen to join us here in our search to bring Bob home and bring him the justice he deserves.

:blowkiss:

 

[deca]

As always I am not sure if this was addressed as I can barely keep up with this thread! YAY more people rooting for Bob!

Anyways, given that the bed was disturbed and it was unlike Bob to leave it unmade it tells me:
1) he was awoken suddenly in the early hours of the night for some reason out of normal routine and lured out of house.
2) he was killed/attacked before he could get up in the morning OR while he was taking a nap a little later that day.

So wouldn't he be missing in his pajamas?

Also:
Did the cops ever luminol the bedroom area? Or check for urine stains? I don't care how neat of a killer you are or if the sheets disappeared, there would be traces left.

 

[zwiebel]

Question (SAR-related ) What do ya'll think about getting a calculus based flowchart set up, using all of the POI's named- which is pretty much everyone I guess at this point.
Calling all math geeks? anyone, anyone??

Oh, Oriah, you seem to have struck a chord there. Hope my reply makes sense. If it doesn't, please don't ask me what it means.....

Technically, I'm not sure that calculus is the right term. Calculus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Calculus is the mathematical study of change.

You use it to work out how fast an apple will be traveling when it hits the ground after falling out of a tree that's so high.

Probability is the study of chance. Here you could say that the chance of SiL is x%, of grandson is y% etc. There you think about what happens when you roll lots of dice - what's the chance that:

SCENARIO 1

a) SiL left the house
b) In that instant Bob went for a walk
c) Just coincidentally a psycho pulled up outside and thought "Yes, That's who I've been looking for!"
d) The psycho did the deed and got away with it

a) Is possible - let's say 50-50
b) Again, 50-50, new wife is coming the next day, but maybe Bob fancies some fresh air or wants to stroll to the shop. Ah, didn't take his wallet.
c) I'd hope not more than 1 in a million - there are 300 million people in the US, 300 active psychos. Lots of streets. Broad daylight, residential. Not a young female as the target. Very unlikely.
d) Maybe 50-50 again, if the psycho was any good at his job.

Result: 0.5 x 0.5 x0.000001 x 0.5 = 0.000000125.

SCENARIO 2

a) SiL didn't leave
b) He killed Bob
c) Grandson dumped the body.

a) 50-50
b) Motive - tick. Ability - tick. Deadline - tick. Existing tension - tick. Ability to do it? Unknown. Say 1 in 10.

Result: 0.5 x 0.1 x0.1 = 0.025.

Scenario 2 is a a lot likelier than 1.

Probability gets way way more hairy with Bayesian analysis - which is where the odds on b) vary depending on the outcome of a), and so on. My take, is that we need a psych expert in group behaviour to work out which one of the family will crack and spill the beans first.

 

[zwiebel]

As always I am not sure if this was addressed as I can barely keep up with this thread! YAY more people rooting for Bob!

Anyways, given that the bed was disturbed and it was unlike Bob to leave it unmade it tells me:
1) he was awoken suddenly in the early hours of the night for some reason out of normal routine and lured out of house.
2) he was killed/attacked before he could get up in the morning while he was taking a nap a little later that day.

So wouldn't he be missing in his pajamas?

Also:
Did the cops ever luminol the bedroom area? Or check for urine stains? I don't care how neat of a killer you are or if the sheets disappeared, there would be traces left.

LE did a forensic search of Bob's home in 2011. I presume it included all of the above, but they did not release results.

Pyjamas are a question we have considered. That 10am, impeccable phone call on Monday 27th gets in the way though.

Maybe Bob was disturbed by SIL arriving earlier than expected that morning, then he never got the chance to catch up?

 

[believe09]

A few things stand out specifcially with regards to the above comments.

Bob's daughters have deflected any and ALL responsibility for their behavior on their parents wishes. There is still something regarding Paula's statement, "we warned him" that appears to place ALL blame on Bob for his disappearance, as if that comment is stating, 'we warned him - he did it anyway - these are the consequences of his actions'.

And then of course there is the blame game. The media misrepresented them, they've insulted Bobs' wife, the police, Bob's best friend PE, and have called Agnes a liar. The long list of conspirators who don't know each other and have nothing to gain in any of this just grows longer and longer as facts are presented in this case. And I am sure I have forgotten some who Bob's daughters have added to the blame list.

And if they think it is not obvious, they are kidding themselves.

My favorite was that we lured him out. As in Websleuthers. Not sure how that worked-but I guess it seems far more likely that a group of strangers who gathered after the disappearance are more likely suspects then the folks who last saw Bob alive.

 

[believe09]

So wouldn't he be missing in his pajamas?

It seems a real possibility to me.

 

[Mels3kidz]

Poor Bob. With a family like that who needs enemies?

He should have just added Fontelle to the accounts and then told them later. Months and months later.

I'm glad they married the same day that they got the license. Otherwise I feel sure his disappearance would have happened before the wedding.

Mel.

 

[believe09]

So who has control of the money/trust?
How much is there?

Well, Mr Harrod should have control over it still.

PB and RB are co conservators. They are supposed to be gatekeeping until the happy day when Bob returns or he can speak for himself. I dont know the final numbers, but at the one and only audit to date (I believe anyway) it was 2-3 million dollars. Who knows what remains now-we know that the trust is down at least one substantial asset...the mortgage on Windflower which exceeded 600K. We also know from the minutes of the trial to compel rent from Mrs Harrod that the girls were crying poor.

Which is kind of funny when you think about them magnanimously forgiving (which I am not sure they actually had the powers to do) AH the astonishing amount of money he owed his Grandfather.

For those of you whose heads are swimming-within days of Bob's disappearance, Bob's only grandchild ceased paying on the tremendous debt he owed to the trust. He claimed in his deposition that this debt was to be forgiven upon the death of his grandfather. Mind you, Bob is not legally dead and the forgiveness clause was not noted anywhere. And at the time he stopped paying his debt, PPD was looking for a live Bob. But no matter.

His aunts decided to take his word for it I guess. :waitasec:

 

[Oriah]

This was one of the suggestions made early on that Bob's daughters posted roadblocks of why it wouldn't work. IIRC, they said something along the lines of he didn't have one place he purchased glasses.....

I'd imagine if if this is one of the things LE did look into, we'd hear this added to the list of things contrary to what the family said.

Glad you brought this up again, Cubby.
It doesn't matter where exactly someone buys glasses- they are prescription; which means the prescription is filled at a certain location by a specific dr at a specific location, so that could be traced...and I'm not sure how long they need to keep records, but I think maybe 3-5 years?

Ugh. Going to look into that.

 

[believe09]

I just want to circle back for a moment on the possibility that Bob left the house in his pajamas. Mrs Harrod states in Disappeared that Bob's slippers (which were shown as well) were still in the house.

So if Bob wasnt fully dressed, he was most certainly taken by surprise unless it was his custom to walk around the house in socks or sneakers and his pajamas.

Those slippers look pretty broken in.

 

[TDW59]

Youngest daughter, thanks for the correction Cubby.
I am sure LE checked out the CVS visit. My roomate, an ICU nurse, said that benadryl would work the same in the elderly.
Also opiate pain killers, benzos (nerve pills) and sleep meds.

Also, I too, suspect the daughters may have gotten copies of the will/trust from the courthouse. That can be tracked unless they used aliases. They could have VIEWED it without a trail but if they got copies a receipt would be issued to them by the court.
Those receipts would not be available to the public but to the LE.

However it might have been more expedient to hire an attny to get it and then harder to track, as well.

 

[Oriah]

On thread 11 midway thro. Folks are speculating about how Bob may have been lead or enticed out of his home.
Regarding what time he arose and what time he may have made his bed, CAExile stated that he kept irregular sleeping and eating schedules, doing both as and when he felt like it.

As far as getting him out of the house, leaving things he normally would not, it crosses my mind that he could very very easily have been drugged. There are very quick acting anti-anxiety drugs and sleep drugs that could have been put in a cup of coffee cordially served to him. Some benzos would take effect within 15 minutes! He could be disoriented and confused or actually fall asleep.

These drugs are so very commonly prescribed and reading the eldest daughter I find her to be a likely candidate for possessing such prescriptions.
I find her to be unstable and possibly mentally ill.
But almost anyone can get these prescriptions.

One person reported that the family gathered at the home of AH after the fateful family meeting at Bob's. Is this confirmed?

I niggle over details.
Of course that would be premeditation.

Huge and very important point imvho. How did Mr. Harrod get from inside the residence to outside the residence?

 

[Oriah]

I just want to circle back for a moment on the possibility that Bob left the house in his pajamas. Mrs Harrod states in Disappeared that Bob's slippers (which were shown as well) were still in the house.

So if Bob wasnt fully dressed, he was most certainly taken by surprise unless it was his custom to walk around the house in socks or sneakers and his pajamas.

Those slippers look pretty broken in.

If Mr. Harrod actually left his residence with footwear on (slippers, shoes, even socks for that matter) wouldn't LE have used that to trail? Argh.
Ok, let's say they didn't for whatever reason.

Mr. Harrod is known for wearing a very specific type of socks. They come in packages of 3. Does anyone have that specific info? Were there any socks missing from his residence?

 

[TDW59]

He could have been led out, much like we would help a drunk friend out of a bar, stumbling. It would all depend upon how incapacitated he would have been.
He could have shuffled out with simply an arm to guide him. Or he could have been drug out or..there is that sheet controversy.

My ICU friend says that Unisom also effects the elderly very strongly..but I don't think they would have this kind of knowledge, I very strongly vote for a benzo such as xanax, from a family member's prescription bottle. It's a well known, frequently prescribed drug with very predictable and known effects.

The dosage would determine how strong the reaction to it would be. Anything from a little tired and less alert to soundly asleep.

It would take effect beginning in less than half an hour.

As it kicked in and was more fully absorbed the effect would grow stronger.

It puts almost everyone who has no tolerance asleep eventually and usually does not take long.

 

[believe09]

OK, his slippers were in the house which would lead me to believe that he was dressed. BUT, his bed was unmade which would lead me to believe he was in pajamas.

So he might have been wearing Reebock sneakers if he were dressed, or partially dressed perhaps. If he wasnt dressed (IE pajamas) he could have been barefoot, wearing his socks or wearing his sneakers. Because his slippers were there.

I mean our options in footwear appear to be limited.

So he may have been in pajamas and without footwear, but certainly without his glasses.

I am not sure the around 10AM time bothers me for him still being in his pj's that day-he had been involved in a very emotional event the night before.

A robe-I wonder if he wore a robe?