CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[believe09]

Better to come clean to LE rather than covering for one another. It was amazing to hear Detective Radomski say that although I think we had suspected that was the case for a while now.

Hope springs eternal that one of them steps forward, at least with me it does. I think there is still a chance.

 

[MaryNo]

:rose: ELB :rose:
Welcome!

I'm excited to read what other gems you pick up that have been missed.

These are great observations! Payment, key, and unmade bed. Little details overlooked by a perpetrator often kick the perp in the behind, later, at trial. This is where my thoughts have been lately, as well. I'm pondering "mail." What time, how delivered - mailbox or hand-, sorted or not, where was it when police came; those kinds of things.

I wonder if she was ever paid. I never thought of her receiving payment, until now. Thank you! :rose:

There's one more thing about the CL. Usually money is left or a check, if the person is not going to be home to pay them. However, if Bob was going to be there he'd would've paid the CL directly. I think the fact that Bob wasn't there, left no key, left no money for her, bed was unmade and he didn't show up before she left, that's why she was feeling so uneasy the whole time she was there.

 

[believe09]

The payment of CL is an excellent question. And if she was paid that day was it cash, by check, was it already written out or was it provided later by one of the family members?

Of course the answer might be in Bob's missing wallet.

 

[zwiebel]

I know Bob did not have dementia, but I wanted to mention - because it involves missing seniors - that a huge controversy has broken out in England today. A local authority is conducting a trial of putting GPS tags on 15 seniors with dementia. They say it will make it much easier and quicker to find them if they get lost and save huge amounts of police time and money. Seniors' organisations are saying it's a barbaric infringement of civil liberties.

From the comments of carers underneath the article, it looks like many think it's a good idea. I can't help thinking the quicker the very old and very young missing are brought home, the better. And, as we saw with Bob, cell phones don't sit well with a lot of seniors.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-tracking-devices-save-police-time-money.html

It makes me sad about Bob though - I don't think anything would have saved him, short of packing up and moving back to MO with Fontelle. I wish he had, poor man. Or they'd both taken off on a world cruise for their honeymoon and fallen in love with the South of France, (Fontelle's elegance would have fitted right in) or a Greek island, and spent the rest of their days eating fine food and being feted for their amazing, long lost love. And they would have been, you know. Love holds a special place in those places. They would have been very special people indeed.

 

[tamild]

I know Bob did not have dementia, but I wanted to mention - because it involves missing seniors - that a huge controversy has broken out in England today. A local authority is conducting a trial of putting GPS tags on 15 seniors with dementia. They say it will make it much easier and quicker to find them if they get lost and save huge amounts of police time and money. Seniors' organisations are saying it's a barbaric infringement of civil liberties.

From the comments of carers underneath the article, it looks like many think it's a good idea. I can't help thinking the quicker the very old and very young missing are brought home, the better. And, as we saw with Bob, cell phones don't sit well with a lot of seniors.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-tracking-devices-save-police-time-money.html

It makes me sad about Bob though - I don't think anything would have saved him, short of packing up and moving back to MO with Fontelle. I wish he had, poor man. Or they'd both taken off on a world cruise for their honeymoon and fallen in love with the South of France, (Fontelle's elegance would have fitted right in) or a Greek island, and spent the rest of their days eating fine food and being feted for their amazing, long lost love. And they would have been, you know. Love holds a special place in those places. They would have been very special people indeed.

I love the idea of a VOLUNTARY GPS device for seniors that could be made available through government funding, with the families of the patient deciding whether or not to equip their loved one with the device. Of course, then there could be the issue of people using such devices as a substitute for proper supervision. So many things to consider...

But you're right, I don't think anything could've saved Bob, either. Even moving to MO, they still would have hounded him, accused Fontelle and her family of all sorts of things...I shudder to think how bad it would've been. The only chance he had was to run away from home and tell no one. Sometimes I like to think that that's just what he did.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, it would be nice to think he ran away and was safe. But I can't, because I know he didn't.

As Fontelle would say: 'He would not have left on his own. He was happy.'

Only one good thing can come out of this, imo, and that's to bring Bob home. The trial will just be another bad thing, in the dark cloud of bad things surrounding Bob's case.

 

[zwiebel]

Sorry, I lost half my reply there, about the tracking devices. Slightly ironic.

 

[zwiebel]

Here it is. No idea what I did there.


Oh, it would be free. And voluntary for families to decide. But that's what the objection is. That people with dementia can't decide themselves, so therefore it's barbaric because it is putting them in the same 'class' as tagged criminals, without their permission. I really don't know about that. I think most people could easily differentiate between an elderly, confused person with a tag and a 20-year-old with a mean look in their eye and bracelet around their ankle.

Your point about it being a substitute for supervision is spot on, in my opinion. The free national health service is fast running out of money to look after the growing number of elderly people with needs that fall halfway between medical and social in England. And, kind of bringing it back to Bob, with a load of children absolutely outraged that they have to sell their parent's home when parent goes into a residential home, in order to pay the fees. Because they cannot look after parent themselves, do not want or are not able to pay, but still expect to inherit parent's home.

None of that applies to Bob though. And, much as I'd like to, I can't join in the hopes he may have run off, tamild. I'm as sure as Fontelle that he 'would never have left on his own. He was happy.'

Bob thought he'd found a new life life; he had no idea the end was coming.......from the moment he married Fontelle, imo.

 

[MaryNo]

In the interview Julie did with MSM (youtube in Timeline thread), she said between 12 and 1:00. That is in agreement with Disappeared. It's been in the public arena for quite some time.

I'm comfortable with a lot of things Julie has said. I think she says things, and doesn't realize WHAT she's saying, if that makes sense.

The Disappeared episode is the first time MSM provided an arrival time for the cleaning lady.

Prior to the 'Long Lost Love' episode, we had only been told she had been there, but not what time she arrived.

 

[believe09]

In the interview Julie did with MSM (youtube in Timeline thread), she said between 12 and 1:00. That is in agreement with Disappeared. It's been in the public arena for quite some time.

I'm comfortable with a lot of things Julie has said. I think she says things, and doesn't realize WHAT she's saying, if that makes sense.

I favor the 28 hr one for a similar reason-it seemed spontaneous to me and very similar to many many posts she makes where she is qualifying something. And IIRC, she made it first before she was interviewed by the media.

If he disappeared between 12 and 1PM, CL was with him in the house as was Jeff. Going by the Disappeared timeline. Which had LE cooperation.

If the timeline begins around 10AM, CL hasnt arrived yet.

I kind of like the theory that Bob might have vented some frustration to JeM that morning. It makes a lot of sense. He was probably still angry from the scene the night before.

 

[believe09]

Yes, it would be nice to think he ran away and was safe. But I can't, because I know he didn't.

As Fontelle would say: 'He would not have left on his own. He was happy.'

Only one good thing can come out of this, imo, and that's to bring Bob home. The trial will just be another bad thing, in the dark cloud of bad things surrounding Bob's case.

You and I are completely on the same page. :hug:

 

[believe09]

So here is my question-when did JuM learn about the phone call "around 10AM." ? This may be one of the items that influenced the moving target of a timeline.

 

[TDW59]

I hope y'all ( yes, southern now ) don't mind me posting the deposition.
I actually found and came to this site because I was looking for another missing elderly man and could not remember the name. I still haven't found his case and it nags at me. There was also a MP case involving a young woman from Covington KY that bothers me...she looks almost exactly like my niece and I am familiar with that area from years past.
I found myself here and began reading this case. It seemed a solvable case. It seems surreal to me that it has gone so long without an arrest(s).
I first set about reading this thread and then it seemed logical to me to try to familiarize myself with the persons in this case to flesh out and get a feel for them. I am not internet savvy. But there are 2 people who are very elusive, ARH being one of them. This deposition is the only way I know to get a glimpse of him and where he fits in. For those of us who are new to this case, reading the posts is time consuming. I did not have enough of an understanding to go to each link as it was put up and have heard another say the same.
I believe the deposition to be an enlightening snapshot of ARH.
So, I don't want to interfere or derail the conversation here but hope you won't mind if I finish putting it up.

 

[TDW59]

DEPOSITION OF ANDREW ROBERT HARROD PART 8

[PN, Mr Algorri continuing examination]

Q: Okay. Do you have knowledge or understanding as to who resides in your former residence in Placentia as we sit here today?
A: I do not.
Q: All right. Now, the aunts when they approached you in their capacities as trustees, aside from working out a resolution of the house issue, did they also demand from you an sort of written financial accounting as to the status of any loans made by Mr. Harrod to you?
A: I don't recall if that was a demand along the way.
Q: Do you recall when it was the last time you saw Mr Harrod?
A: Approximately a week before his disappearance.
Q: Give me a moment here. Now, back in October of 2010, do you recall making a phone call to me?
Q: Do you remember our conversation?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, do you recall telling me that you wanted to apologize for being too quick to judge the situation against Fontelle?
A: It might have been out of context, but I remember apologizing.
Q: All right. Do you recall in particular telling me that you felt pressured into choosing the side of the trustees over Fontelle in this litigation?
A: I remember feeling in the middle.
Q: You recall asking me for a referral to an attorney?
A: I do.
Q: In the course of our conversation did I say or intimate to you in any way how you should testify in this proceeding?
A: No.
Q: Do you recall telling me in the course of that conversation that your aunts, as trustees, were doing some things that did not sit well with you?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you mean by that?
A: I meant that I didn't believe that they were following through with the intentions my grandfather had.
Q: What is your understanding of the intentions your Grandfather had?
A: That my note was to be forgiven upon his death or --
Q: At that time do you recall telling me that they were threatening to take the house from you?
A: Yes.
Q: And do you recall telling me that you were angry that your aunts had quit their jobs once they had been appointed trustees of the estate?
A: I don't recall that, no. I -- no, I don't recall.

 

[deca]

Q: And do you recall telling me that you were angry that your aunts had quit their jobs once they had been appointed trustees of the estate?


So, it sounds like the aunts were working somewhere when Bob disappeared.

 

[TDW59]

RB worked in accounting.
I don't know about PB.

JuM (not a co-conservator) did not work.

 

[Cubby]

So here is my question-when did JuM learn about the phone call "around 10AM." ? This may be one of the items that influenced the moving target of a timeline.

Excellent question!

Especially since the first time given for her father having gone missing (her community forum) was within 10 minutes of that 10:00am call, and then the given times move from there. Her 1:50pm post on the 28th of July, indicated her dad went missing about 9:50 am or "28 hours" ago.

I'd like to know not just when, but also how.

 

[Cubby]

RB worked in accounting.
I don't know about PB.

JuM (not a co-conservator) did not work.

Actually it was PB, the oldest daughter who worked in accounting. I don't recall what RB was doing, perhaps someone else does.

Per AH's deposition, they both retired after Bob went missing and they became co-conservators.

 

[deca]

And at least in the depo, AH leads everyone to believe (rightfully or not) that he is getting treated unfairly by his aunts.

So is this a "spoiled grandchild" reaction? Or a justified anger?

Were his loans supposed to be forgiven? Obviously, Bob did not account for this in his will.

Given the supposed amount of the loans (in the hundreds of thousands IIRC between 250,000 and 700,000 dollars) that would be a sizable chunk of the estate and I can see why the aunts want it paid back.

---

 

[Cubby]

This new thread is only 8 days old and already has 7,600 views!

Thank you to everyone for following Bob's case and praying this man is brought home and receives justice!

:tyou: