CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[tamild]

And yet the co conservators have alluded to the fact that Bob cared for their mother. No one else cared for her-PB and RB and JuM have not jumped up and given long winded examples of their care of their mother.

They have data dumped everything else-why not prove more badness by demonstrating their constant, daily/weekly loving care of their mother? Just wondering.

I think there is probably some real value in looking at the possibility that he wasnt answering the phone at all at some point that morning, and that someone else was.

BBM

Someone impersonating Bob or a pre-arranged series of calls to make it look like Bob answered? Hmmm

 

[bourne]

BBM

Someone impersonating Bob or a pre-arranged series of calls to make it look like Bob answered? Hmmm

The only person who would be able to mimic Bob's male voice would be someone at the house. So if this happened, it'd have to be Jeff.

 

[bourne]

Hi, dreamweaver. :blowkiss:

Then I guess we need to find him. Really what counts, imo, is bringing him back to Fontelle. The rest is up to LE and the courts.

At least he should come back from the cold and lonely place where he is laying.

Maybe we can focus on that. On routes of travel. On hints gleaned from those who may know what happened that day or those who might have seen something or who might not want to know something, but they do.

Haven't the routes of travel been a topic of focus in the SAR thread?

If any of you live in Placentia or nearby, why don't y'all get together and do a search for Bob? I'm surprised posters who are involved here in Bob's case for several years haven't done so already.

P.S. I would love to join in on the search, unfortunately we're nowhere near Placentia at this time of year -- although we will likely be in N. CA in a few months

 

[MaryNo]

Truthfully, I can take the sleuthing and smearing. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: (I mean really ... anyone that picks on an 81 year old man, can't be too tough. Whoever disappeared Bob is a coward.)

I was already there - right after I read your post. I think it's a GREAT idea! I c/p'd, and started to hit "enter" when I saw that it's not a great format for what I want to do there. It was very difficult to read/follow if you aren't a follower of the case. FOR NOW, I deleted my post.

People on that FB thread already hold these 2 in low esteem. Their comments might rile them up enough to do some real searching along with us.

We could brainstorm on that a bit on how to make it fit that long, narrow format. It's doable! I, like you, want to spread the joy of it all!

hee hee hee. It's just a suggestion, with fair warning if you (a general you) add it to the ID FB page with your real name you'll probably sleuthed and smeared all over the internet by Bob's daughters.

I just thought Roberta's words about her dad were so special, they shouldn't be limited to those reading here at WS.

 

[bourne]

Anyhow, to follow up on my prior post, given that I concluded it was foul play, here are some scenarios and we can use scientific deduction to rule things out.

I) Either Bob was killed in his own home, OR
II) Bob was killed outside.

Given that LE states Bob was still alive and kicking at 10am Mon (and if we assume that LE verified with an impeccable credible source that it was Bob whom they spoke with), then the perp(s) who killed Bob would have only a small window of opportunity to kill him in the home between 10am - 12pm because presumably Agnes arrives at 12noon.

If Agnes arrived at noon, and if we believe that PB telephoned and spoke with Bob at 11:45am, then there is only 15 minutes for the perp(s) to kill Bob in his home because Agnes did not hear or see anyone coming out of Bob's home when she arrived.

Thus, it would be really helpful if we can narrow Agnes' arrival time at Bob's home on Monday. Why do I say this?

Well, for the sake of this scientific argument, I have suspended my judgment that I do not believe PB had done anything to her dad. So if Agnes arrived at noon and PB claimed she made contact with her dad Bob at 11:45am, then PB could very well have been lying. Because if we consider the 15 minute window, that means the perp(s) had to act SUPER FAST in those 15 short minutes in order to get Bob out of his home (whether he was incapacitated or not) and not be seen/heard by Agnes.

If and only if PB was lying*, we'd have to wonder why she would lie about the time she spoke with Bob and overheard him agreeing with Jeff that Jeff should go to Home Depot...The only reason I can come up with on why PB may have lied about calling her dad by phone is so she can supply herself with an alibi that she wasn't present in the home but elsewhere when her dad went missing. Also, her statement that she overheard Jeff at 11:45am talking to her dad would then be a means for her to implicate Jeff in her dad-gone-missing.

Now, if Agnes did NOT arrive at 12noon but sometime at 1pm or even at 3pm which was a time that was thrown around by a few posters, then the window of opportunity for Bob going missing would be expanded from 11:45am when PB presumably called her dad to 1pm when Agnes showed up at Bob's home (about 1 hr 15 mins) OR if Agnes did not show up till 3pm then window for foul play would be about 3 hrs 15 mins.

Again, this highlights how critical it is to get an ACCURATE timeline, especially for the time that Agnes showed up at Bob's home, knocked on his door, and no one answered (and I presume she heard/saw nothing strange while waiting on the steps of Bob's home for 45 mins until Jeff returned to Bob's home after a Home Depot trip).

Getting back to scenario I, Bob being killed in his own home. If Agnes showed up at 12noon and PB had been truthful that she spoke with Bob by phone at 11:45am, then chances of perp(s) killing Bob at his home is very slight.

However, if Agnes showed up at 1pm or 3pm, then perp(s) may have killed Bob at his home. However, that would mean that perp(s) would have to clean up the mess before Agnes arrived. Thus, it would be extremely important to know whether Agnes observed anything strange (like blood, overturned chairs, smell of bleach as a sign of clean-up after murder, etc.) at the home.

What we do know is that Agnes said she felt uneasy in the home that day and that it was very odd that Bob's bed was unmade...

Could Bob have left his bed unmade that day, and why? Or did Jeff purposefully mess up Bob's bed after Agnes asked Jeff to go upstairs to check up on Bob? If so, why? Was Jeff trying to stage something?

In summary, there are too many unclear "facts" about this case. If we can have the interview of Agnes by LE, some of these ambiguities like the timeline and what she noticed at Bob's home that Monday can be cleared up. Until then, I'm at a loss as to where to proceed.

*Re: PB lying about calling and speaking with her dad Bob at 11:45am. The timing of her call to her dad would be easily verifiable by LE had they checked her phone records and they would also be able to note how long she had spoken to someone at Bob's home number. However, this still could mean she was NOT speaking with Bob but talking to the perp(s) who were doing her dad harm.

Also, we have to note that if PB was NOT lying but telling the truth, then her account that Bob was alive at 11:45am Mon seems to conflict with her younger sister Julie's version which was that Bob went missing at 10am Monday. This tells me that she and her younger sister were not in cahoots together. Otherwise, they'd have at least gotten the timing the same.

Additionally, Julie giving the precise "28 hour" missing time of her dad's disappearance I still find very hinky. Most people would say "he went missing for about 24 hours or more" or some generality like that unless they were at Bob's home and KNEW what the exact time it was when he went missing.

Furthermore, what time did Jeff say he left Bob's home for Home Depot? If he said he left about 10am Mon, that might be why Julie gives that precise time and to me, that suggests they might have been conspiring together to set a specific time for Bob's disappearance...

 

[believe09]

Haven't the routes of travel been a topic of focus in the SAR thread?

If any of you live in Placentia or nearby, why don't y'all get together and do a search for Bob? I'm surprised posters who are involved here in Bob's case for several years haven't done so already.

P.S. I would love to join in on the search, unfortunately we're nowhere near Placentia at this time of year -- although we will likely be in N. CA in a few months

Maybe in a few months you will feel like working your way down to OC!! The more the merrier.

A theory that includes Bob not answering his phone himself on the morning of 7/27/09 would mean that his arrangement with CL to switch days was made earlier, which may be another possible reason that JeM didnt know about the plan. I doubt that CL would have been fooled by someone else speaking as Bob and if it was JeM who did it, he would have known of the change to the plan.

I honestly believe that if someone had known of the change in cleaning days, this would not be a case. At least not one that looks like this one.

If we roll back the timeline to after the heated exchange and Bob's last conversation with his wife, then everyone will need new alibis I would think. Some how I feel certain this track was covered by PPD, but it is worth thinking about for us because it changes the possible locations for Bob by a lot of miles.

I am still pondering how he left the house, when he left the house and in what vehicle he left the house...well and then obviously where he ended up.

I think I am going to stick with the theory that Bob answered his phone himself and spoke with someone who knew him and who was easily proven to be the last person outside of the family to speak to him. Really, at the end of the day, it is his last known alive.

 

[Cubby]

Truthfully, I can take the sleuthing and smearing. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: (I mean really ... anyone that picks on an 81 year old man, can't be too tough. Whoever disappeared Bob is a coward.)

I was already there - right after I read your post. I think it's a GREAT idea! I c/p'd, and started to hit "enter" when I saw that it's not a great format for what I want to do there. It was very difficult to read/follow if you aren't a follower of the case. FOR NOW, I deleted my post.

People on that FB thread already hold these 2 in low esteem. Their comments might rile them up enough to do some real searching along with us.

We could brainstorm on that a bit on how to make it fit that long, narrow format. It's doable! I, like you, want to spread the joy of it all!

They are all cowards, all 5 of them, in my opinion. Jeff and Andrew the biggest of the group.

I keep going back to Andrew stating in his deposition he stopped paying Bob because he believed his debt was to be forgiven upon his grandfathers death. There is a reason AH believes his grandfather is deceased and isn't the passage of time, because he made this decision within days of his grandfathers disappearance. :stormingmad:

 

[shana]

I think it would be wonderful if the focus of this discussion shifted, if even for a moment, to solid efforts aimed at finding Mr Harrod. There are likely some members here who do not post but who are local to Placentia, or who live in Orange County. Perhaps as suggested above and extending further, they could conduct organized searches, post flyers, and more.

I also think it would be helpful if LE released more information. I doubt that the PPD would reveal its Timeline to the public (typical of such investigations), but wouldn't it be good to know what the CL initially reported as her arrival time and discover if she later changed it by 3 hrs as the narrator on Disappeared indicated?

One other quick mention: I do not find it odd at all that Mr Harrod may have forgotten to tell Jeff that the CL had changed her workday (or, for those of you who think Mr H made the change, that he didn't tell Jeff about his so doing).

~jmo~

 

[shana]

Question: Does anyone know for sure what sort of phone service PB was using on 7/27/09? Was it a cell phone or a land line? If you know and could link me up to a source, I'd appreciate it.

tia

 

[Cubby]

Here comes the tossing of the CL under the bus. We were waiting for it.

The CL gave one time and one time only. Her time has not shifted. In fact, Bob's daughters PB and JuM's initial times match up with the noon time reported by the CL.

It was only after it was discovered that JeM could not account for his time prior to his noon'ish arrival, the times began shifting to fit JeM's 'alibi'.

I'd love to ask the CL if JeM left for that second trip to the HD while she was in the middle of cleaning Bob's home.

 

[shana]

Here comes the tossing of the CL under the bus. We were waiting for it.

The CL gave one time and one time only. Her time has not shifted. In fact, Bob's daughters PB and JuM's initial times match up with the noon time reported by the CL.

It was only after it was discovered that JeM could not account for his time prior to his noon'ish arrival, the times began shifting to fit JeM's 'alibi'.

I'd love to ask the CL if JeM left for that second trip to the HD while she was in the middle of cleaning Bob's home.

WE? Who would that be?

Is asking a question or contributing an opinion considered as throwing someone under the bus?

Are there MSM articles which stated that the CL arrived at 3 pm? (prior to the preview and ultimate airing of Disappeared, of course, after which the TL here was adjusted)

~jmo~

 

[ELB]

This case has always piqued my interest because it involves an elderly man (my father's age) who vanished into thin air and we still don't know what happened to him. I watched several Utube videos on Bob Harrod today and unless I know for a fact that Fontelle talked to him that Monday morning, he disappeared and something was done to him way before the sun came up. We only have his SIL's words that he saw Bob there on monday morning. We are creatures of habit, and I think if Bob had gotten up, he would've made his bed. Perhaps the SIL was trying to make his bed and that's why he was up there that long. Bob was a tall man and it would've taken more than one person to get him out of that house. You can overpower and surprise someone in their sleep by choking them, and when people choke someone, it's personal. You'd also leave no mess. In these videos several things were said by Fontelle, "I see his cane and I wonder where you are?" I saw Fontelle arrive at Bob's from the airport and Bob's daughters are seen hugging her, now sadly they aren't talking to each other. Unless he had another cane, he would've used a cane to go for a walk. My heart aches for Fontelle. His SIL says, the only things missing are his keys and his wallet. So, he thinks Bob walked out the door with these items only , while he was gone, and now going on four years, we simply don't know what happened to him? Bob was known to wear white tennis shoes, white knee socks, white belt and a white panama hat. These items are mentioned that this is what he was wearing when he disappeared. I got to know Bob better by watching these videos, he seemed quite capable and alert, and very happy to have Fontelle back in his life. Also in these videos it states that the SIL let the CL in through the back door, and around 3pm. I really don't think it matters what time the CL came, because Bob was long gone in the wee hours, really had no chance to tell the SIL the CL was coming on monday instead of tuesday, and no chance to leave a key. Missouri is two hours ahead of us, so is JuM talking about CA time or Missouri time in reference to when her father went missing? I also found it strange that JuM would go and change the bedding, since smell is our strongest memory of someone, and I would have thought that Fontelle would have liked having Bob's scent on the bedding. It was like JuM was locking the barn after the horse was stolen. The detective actually thinks that this is now a homicide and I think she's right. I'm surprised that someone in that family hasn't already tried to declare their father dead to get their hands on his money. I read somewhere that more murders are done from love than from hatred. IMO that is exactly what happened here.

 

[MaryNo]

CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Here is a link to the timeline with sources.
SAR link is on the first page of this thread.

I think it would be wonderful if the focus of this discussion shifted, if even for a moment, to solid efforts aimed at finding Mr Harrod. There are likely some members here who do not post but who are local to Placentia, or who live in Orange County. Perhaps as suggested above and extending further, they could conduct organized searches, post flyers, and more.

I also think it would be helpful if LE released more information. I doubt that the PPD would reveal its Timeline to the public (typical of such investigations), but wouldn't it be good to know what the CL initially reported as her arrival time and discover if she later changed it by 3 hrs as the narrator on Disappeared indicated?

One other quick mention: I do not find it odd at all that Mr Harrod may have forgotten to tell Jeff that the CL had changed her workday (or, for those of you who think Mr H made the change, that he didn't tell Jeff about his so doing).

~jmo~

 

[ELB]

There's one more thing about the CL. Usually money is left or a check, if the person is not going to be home to pay them. However, if Bob was going to be there he'd would've paid the CL directly. I think the fact that Bob wasn't there, left no key, left no money for her, bed was unmade and he didn't show up before she left, that's why she was feeling so uneasy the whole time she was there.

 

[shana]

CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Here is a link to the timeline with sources.
SAR link is on the first page of this thread.

Thanks, MaryNo. I am well-aware of all of the adjacent discussions but your reminder is good for those who aren't. (Unfortunately, Guests cannot read the SAR thread).

Do you have any more comments on my original post, or to what was suggested upthread by another poster, not me?

~jmo~

 

[MaryNo]

In response to this post, you are very welcome, and I would suggest those Guests become members, if the SAR info is important to them. The family lives in the area. Have they suggested any areas to search?

Which post upthread by another poster would you like me to respond to?

Thanks, MaryNo. I am well-aware of all of the adjacent discussions but your reminder is good for those who aren't. (Unfortunately, Guests cannot read the SAR thread).

Do you have any more comments on my original post, or to what was suggested upthread by another poster, not me?

~jmo~

 

[deca]

If someone from social services or a bank or something like that called- how could the really tell if they talked to Bob and not some other male?

So, using the verified call Monday morning is a big mistake OR the person who called was a friend/family member.

I, too, have considered that someone happened Sunday night/Monday morning, but that call keeps stopping me.

So I suppose I would ask the Detective when the call happened, who called and what was said, how sure they are of Bob's voice, etc.
Then I would ask who had alibis, what is the timeline they think he disappeared and if they have any footage of SIL at HD and what did he buy.

 

[shana]

In response to this post, you are very welcome, and I would suggest those Guests become members, if the SAR info is important to them. The family lives in the area. Have they suggested any areas to search?

Which post upthread by another poster would you like me to respond to?

If the goal is to find a Missing Person, Guests should not have to register to read any & all information which may lead to Mr Harrod's whereabouts.

Post #323 suggests getting-together and doing a search for Bob, and adds a surprise mention (with which I agree) that it's not been done for several years already.

~jmo~

 

[zwiebel]

What if you had a time limit of 5 minutes on the phone to conduct a 1:1 interview with Det Radomski? What questions would you ask him?

Keep in mind that he may give quick answers to some, such as that he will not respond during an active investigation; therefore, a longer list of questions may be needed to fill-up the 5 minutes.

~jmo~

Is there anything I can ask Bob's daughters to help you with your investigation?

 

[shana]

List them here on a Reply, please, so this subject Title will carry forward. TIA!