CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

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I've just been off trying to set up a thread for a lady missing/murdered in the UK (there was already one here, of course).

The trial of the two men alleged to have murdered her started today. The DA says they stabbed her in the neck and dumped her in the boot of her car in a storage unit/garage, purely to access her money, to sustain their gambling habit.....and to avoid repaying a £40,000 loan. Then purchased gold bullion and kruggerrands and expensive handbags(!!) with the proceeds. The DA seems to think that it was her lending that cash to a person with a history of fraud that led directly to her awful death. She was asking for it back.

I strongly suspect they will be found guilty, because the women they enlisted to help them are going to be witnesses, I think.
 
Luckily, we know that couldn't have been a motive in Bob's case; his millions are in the hands of conservators who have a duty to make sure it is cared for properly, any loans are repaid, and it's kept intact except for essential outgoings, in case he comes back.

One media report even said his assets were frozen. it didn't cite a source, unfortunately.
 
zwiebel said:
Luckily, we know that couldn't have been a motive in Bob's case; his millions are in the hands of conservators who have a duty to make sure it is cared for properly, any loans are repaid, and it's kept intact except for essential outgoings, in case he comes back.

One media report even said his assets were frozen. it didn't cite a source, unfortunately.
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And that was posted with a straight face, wasn't it? How did you manage that? Sorry, couldn't help myself.
 
It was easy. I've been reading through this.

http://www.orangecountyda.com/docs/1713404102013casemanagementlist.pdf

One one hand it is depressing to go through case after case of senseless violence, murder and theft - sometimes for such trivial reasons or gains.

On the other hand, it is very reassuring to find cold cases from the 90's and even the 80s popping up, with new evidence suddenly presented and people brought to trial - even without a body being recovered. They also seem good at tracking down financial frauds, even if it takes a very, very long time.

What has happened to Bob's fortune has happened and he's not here to question it. It is very unlikely he will ever be. but I think it's very likely some enquiring minds in OC are asking those questions for him, and know enough about these kind of affairs to draw their own conclusions.
 
Cubby said:
Respectfully, I think Bob's sharing info on his net worth with his daughters, grandson and SIL played against him. If that knowledge wasn't made available until after both his and Georgia's passing, I don't believe he would have ever 'disappeared'.
Click to expand...

I'm not at all believing they didn't already have a pretty good idea. He had given each of them houses, he could afford to give AH a $600K mortgage. They may not have known down to the cent but they had to have a good ballpark estimate.

I'm sad that Bob and Georgia didn't use the classic millionaire strategy for safety: tell anyone with a stake that the bulk of the estate will go to a named charity after your death. Meaning that the only way to keep the money available is to keep the rightful owner alive.

I'm even more sad that there are families where this sort of strategy is probably a wise precaution.
 
zwiebel said:
Luckily, we know that couldn't have been a motive in Bob's case; his millions are in the hands of conservators who have a duty to make sure it is cared for properly, any loans are repaid, and it's kept intact except for essential outgoings, in case he comes back.

One media report even said his assets were frozen. it didn't cite a source, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Um, zwiebel, I'm not sure if you are writing seriously or sarcastically here. On the outside chance you are being serious...

Gitana1, who is a member of the bar in California, pointed out in one of Bob's threads that the laws and courts overseeing conservatorships are laughably weak in California. The Los Angeles Times did an investigative series on a burgeoning new industry in the state whereby scammers trick people (usually elderly) into giving them a conservatorship and then drain their assets dry. When the victim no longer has any assets, the conservator goes their merry way and the victim is left to the social safety net (which is incredibly inadequate).

This scam would not thrive were it not for the courts that are supposed to oversee conservators being extremely lax and just rubberstamping anything filed.

As best as I can make out, that is exactly what is happening in Bob's case. There's not going to be much left by the time Bob is declared legally dead.
 
I think I was trying to lay out the theory really, of how these trusts are supposed to work and safeguard people's assets......sort of illustrate how people think they are supposedto work.

To me it does seem that when Bob first disappeared, there may have been a general belief that it couldn't have had any connection with his assets - that was in a Trust and therefore 'untouchable'/frozen. That if his disappearance did have anything to do with money, it had to be somebody just trying to access his cash, through him. Maybe elder abuse? There certainly did seem to be people who got that impression (the reporter who wrote about the 'frozen' account, for example).

As I said, I don't know the source of that particular bit of info, but media reports all name Bob's daughters as the source of the finger-pointing towards 'suspicious' people who wanted Bob's cash.

The trouble with that theory of course, is that the next step is to look at who did actually gain access to his cash and assets after he disappeared. But anyone who does that, seems to hit the brick wall of 'that's a private, family matter that Dad wouldn't want anyone discussing'.

It would be Kafkaesque really, had it been better thought out.
 
'His wallet and keys were missing', we heard again and again in all the media reports. Surely that would have included at least one credit card? And Bob's checkbooks were left in the house.

If he had really been disappeared for his cash, there would have been immediate attempts to get cash from them, like there was for that poor lady Bessie. Her murderer was caught because he went straight to a store and tried to use her credit card.

Myself, I think any theory Bob was disappeared for small or even largish amounts of cash have been discredited. The stakes were much higher in his case, I think.
 
zwiebel said:
I think I was trying to lay out the theory really, of how these trusts are supposed to work and safeguard people's assets......sort of illustrate how people think they are supposedto work.

To me it does seem that when Bob first disappeared, there may have been a general belief that it couldn't have had any connection with his assets - that was in a Trust and therefore 'untouchable'/frozen. That if his disappearance did have anything to do with money, it had to be somebody just trying to access his cash, through him. Maybe elder abuse? There certainly did seem to be people who got that impression (the reporter who wrote about the 'frozen' account, for example).

As I said, I don't know the source of that particular bit of info, but media reports all name Bob's daughters as the source of the finger-pointing towards 'suspicious' people who wanted Bob's cash.

The trouble with that theory of course, is that the next step is to look at who did actually gain access to his cash and assets after he disappeared. But anyone who does that, seems to hit the brick wall of 'that's a private, family matter that Dad wouldn't want anyone discussing'.

It would be Kafkaesque really, had it been better thought out.
Click to expand...

I think Bob's descendants were the only people impressed by the idea of a trust. They wanted the trust to be akin to a savings account where the money went in but would not come out again until certain defined events (the deaths of Bob and Georgia). It must have been a real shocker for them to discover that when Mom died, Dad still had access to the money.

There's a real and obvious problem with the idea that someone outside the family who was draining cash from Bob making him disappear: that would be killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Assuming that Bob was being scammed, the scammers were the people who had the best motive for keeping Bob alive.

To me, all the changing theories about motive put forth by the family indicate people who were not at all sorry Bob disappeared, so they didn't know how to act as though they were sad and fearful for Bob's safety. So much of what they said publicly fell with a resounding clunk and those saying it clearly had no idea that it would be perceived to be false.
 
zwiebel said:
'His wallet and keys were missing', we heard again and again in all the media reports. Surely that would have included at least one credit card? And Bob's checkbooks were left in the house.

If he had really been disappeared for his cash, there would have been immediate attempts to get cash from them, like there was for that poor lady Bessie. Her murderer was caught because he went straight to a store and tried to use her credit card.

Myself, I think any theory Bob was disappeared for small or even largish amounts of cash have been discredited. The stakes were much higher in his case, I think.
Click to expand...

Huh. I have assumed that they said he left with his wallet and keys because a) it is probably a variation on the truth and b) would give LE the impression that Bob left his house voluntarily and the actual initial crime scene took place somewhere away from Bob's home. No need to seal and forensically process the house, no sirree, Bob left of his own free will and whatever happened was away from his home.

I think there were at least two family members who very badly did not want that house sealed and forensically processed. Who wanted someone to be living in that house to contaminate the scene.

And who were very disappointed when they figured out that Fontelle would not just conveniently leave again when those two family members had no more use for her.
 
The almost immediate moves to get Fontelle out of the house ( 'the lawyer made us do it' tale is nonsense, imo) are such a clear signal to me that the concern previously expressed for her was all fake.

Pretty good faking too, with JuM's 'I will be here to welcome his new wife', and her hugs in front of the cameras. Knowing now that, days later, Fontelle says she was telling her she had to leave......a person has to wonder why the hypocrisy/acting happened?

I had only thought of a desire to claim a property worth a big chunk of cash previously, as a reason for the sudden about turn. Your post has made me think about the other implications of Mrs Harrod staying. She had the right to allow forensic investigators in, and she did so.

Totally O/T: All my jokes about my house falling down - I've just discovered it's no joke at all. A timber supporting four floors has gone and the whole lot is in imminent danger of descending with a bang. It is being propped up at the moment. The solution looks like it will entail ripping out the heating system I just installed - just before winter. I may end up posting from a tent in the garden, under a LOT of insulation, if the signal will reach that far.

Sigh. Wish I'd had a Dad like Bob, who could have taught me how to make sensible house-purchases. I would have listened. I wasn't lucky enough to have a Dad who lived long enough though.
 
sres you are hysterical. I swear egads is an English word that hasn't been used by anyone there for about a hundred years. Wherever did you get that from?

When I say 'props' I mean the proper metal kind, not those old-fashioned wooden things that hold up a line of washing.

* In the novel Angela's Ashes, I think, there was a bit about an English immigrant not being able to get used to the fact Californians never hang washing out to dry, despite all the lovely sunshine. I'll have to look it up, but I'd love to know if that's true.
 
oh Zwie- given my roots- Egads- I might could be fixing to tote my dope in a poke over yonder to the holler. (now my Aunt Jimmy Hazel carried her chaw in the poke too)
Hangin warsh out is considered unsightly by city folks standards.
I bet Mr H might could have worn a plenty of pants dried stiff in the sun, in his younger days.
 
I will translate that sres, don't you worry. It may take a while, but I'll do it.
 
Oh hun, here, I think I am going to carry my Pepsi, in a paper bag, down to the valley. And Aunt Hazel chewed tobacco, lol
 
You didn't give me a proper chance to translate it using turn of the century English. I had got:

Oh zwie, given my genealogy, I could perhaps be intending to carry a valued possession in a narrow bag yonder, towards the hollow.
Now, my aunt, Jimmy Haze, carried her chewing tobacco in a narrow bag too.
Hanging out one's laundered linens is considered unseemly by the standards of cosmopolitan inhabitants.
I suspect Mr H could have dressed in many pairs of trousers, starched by the sun, in his younger days.

Jimmy Haze threw me utterly. If that is really your aunt's name, apologies!
 
ROTFLMAO
(Yep Jimmy Hazel...cor I miss that woman. Aunt Hay)
 
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